Newbie With Lots of Questions

[Matthew Mossop]

I've been really interested in this kind of stuff for a while now and bought some gym rings a while back, but only really got into pushups and Bulgarian dips on those.

At the moment I'm doing some typical weight lifting stuff (bench press, shoulder press, etc) with lots of bodyweight stuff mixed in (pseudo planche pushups, dips, lots of chinups, etc).

Anyway, basically I'd like to be able to do/improve 3 things: a planche pushup, handstand pushup, and l-sits. As of now I'm doing my regular stuff in the gym twice a week, and then basically every night I'll just spend maybe 10 minutes on l-sits, planche progressions, and I'm planning on adding handstand pushups.

So my first question:

1) Is this a totally wrong way to go about doing this? Is 10 minutes a day going to get me anywhere? Or should I incorporate these into my regular gym routine?

I'm considering dropping all the typical gym stuff and focusing on pure gymnastics stuff, although I guess I should buy BtGB first. So a couple questions about that:

2) Is 2 or 3 times a week one hour a day enough time to train this type of stuff to make progress?

3) Are rings absolutely necessary? I have some, but I work out at a gym and would be a bit embarrassed to bring my rings there and work out with them, but if I have to then I will.

4) I'm having a lot of trouble getting past the frog stand in the planche variations. I can hold a frog stand for over a minute, but I have no idea how to progress from this to the next variation. Do I start in a frog stand and then move to the next variation from there, or do I start straight out in the next variation? With the frog stand my elbows are bent, and I'm not able to extend them into the next position.

Thanks in advance for any help .

[Falcon]

I've been really interested in this kind of stuff for a while now and bought some gym rings a while back, but only really got into pushups and Bulgarian dips on those.

At the moment I'm doing some typical weight lifting stuff (bench press, shoulder press, etc) with lots of bodyweight stuff mixed in (pseudo planche pushups, dips, lots of chinups, etc).

Anyway, basically I'd like to be able to do/improve 3 things: a planche pushup, handstand pushup, and l-sits. As of now I'm doing my regular stuff in the gym twice a week, and then basically every night I'll just spend maybe 10 minutes on l-sits, planche progressions, and I'm planning on adding handstand pushups.

So my first question:

1) Is this a totally wrong way to go about doing this? Is 10 minutes a day going to get me anywhere? Or should I incorporate these into my regular gym routine?

I'm considering dropping all the typical gym stuff and focusing on pure gymnastics stuff, although I guess I should buy BtGB first. So a couple questions about that:

2) Is 2 or 3 times a week one hour a day enough time to train this type of stuff to make progress?

3) Are rings absolutely necessary? I have some, but I work out at a gym and would be a bit embarrassed to bring my rings there and work out with them, but if I have to then I will.

4) I'm having a lot of trouble getting past the frog stand in the planche variations. I can hold a frog stand for over a minute, but I have no idea how to progress from this to the next variation. Do I start in a frog stand and then move to the next variation from there, or do I start straight out in the next variation? With the frog stand my elbows are bent, and I'm not able to extend them into the next position.

Thanks in advance for any help .

1. This isn't a canteen. You can't pick up what you like and train only two, or three things. Train it all, it's worth it.

2. 3 times a week is cool, but you have to workout your whole body, and that's gonna take more than 1 hour

3. If you are able to take your rings with you, then do it, don't care if anyone will laugh at you or that kinda things.

4. 60s Lsit or 3x30s Lsit is a prerequisite for planche, and also, train some planche leans to increase the lean in planche.

[Matthew Mossop]

Thanks for the reply.

I've actually decided to go full out with this stuff and drop all the typical workout stuff, so I'll be doing way more than what I mentioned. I'm just waiting for BtGB to arrive to see which exercises to train. After I go through it I'm sure I'll have way more questions, lol.

Another quick question for now though so I can put together a proper routine: if I'm doing 2 or 3 workouts a week should I have 2 or 3 separate routines which I do once per week or just have one routine which I train each time until I master those moves?

[Falcon]

You shouldn't train the same exercises workout after workout, that would be too hard on your body, I recommend the killroy template (find topic with it) or the WODs, they're great if you don't know how to design your own routine.

[Matthew Mossop]

Alright I got BtGB and read through it and have read around the forums a little and am pretty confused on where to start.

It looks like the WOD is just a workout, but not necessarily training to be able to achieve specific moves and holds... is that right?

From this thread it seems like the WOD of the day should be done in conjunction with static holds training as a warmup:

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=5265

Also I can't find the Killroy Template anywhere. I searched a few times and looked in the workout log sections and I see people mentioning it, but I don't see the actual template.

Anyway like I said I'm pretty confused. Should I just choose some of the easier variations in the book and work on them and progress from there? Do I ignore all dynamic movements until I have some solid static holds down? Would an entire workout consists of just static hold progressions, or are these just for warm up? How long should I strive to hold each one?

Like I said pretty confused, lol. Is this all laid out in the Killroy Template?

[Joshua Naterman]

Wods + statics is your best bet. A lot of beginners have fun with the killroy template but killroy is now doing the WODs and is seeing better progress. The WODs are specifically designed to enhance your progress in all movements. If you are doing them correctly ( moderately challenging but not a beatdown) you will make better progress and have plenty of energy and recovery ability available for specific extra training in one or two specific skills. I highly suggest that you pick L sit first. When you have a solid 30s L sit move on to planche, but make sure you are always working on scapular retraction, long head of the triceps, serratus anterior and external rotators. Youtube and google will help you find exercises for those.

[Matthew Mossop]

Thanks for the reply.

Slight problem though... I can't perform most of the movements I'm seeing in the WOD.

[Joshua Naterman]

You have to scale back. Every single WOD says "scale to your ability" or something similar. If all you can do is pull ups and foot supported rows, that's what you do when it says something like front lever pulls or front pulls or whatever.

[Quick Start Test Smith]

Matt, if you have a question about a specific exercise that you can't scale down, ask in the WOD thread. We're quick to answer

[Samuel Carr]

Another way to scale is to find the movement in BtBG and then go to an easier variation within the category that it is in. You can usually further scale even the easiest exercise by decreasing leverage or using assistance which you will get the hang of overtime

[Matthew Mossop]

You have to scale back. Every single WOD says "scale to your ability" or something similar. If all you can do is pull ups and foot supported rows, that's what you do when it says something like front lever pulls or front pulls or whatever.

Ah right... I didn't know what the meant, lol... thanks.

So should my static hold progressions still be done as warm up before the WOD? And if so should I just randomly choose a few to work on?

L-sit, FL, BL, and HS seem like the fundamentals from what I've read... would that be good place to start?

Matt, if you have a question about a specific exercise that you can't scale down, ask in the WOD thread. We're quick to answer

Great thanks .

Another way to scale is to find the movement in BtBG and then go to an easier variation within the category that it is in. You can usually further scale even the easiest exercise by decreasing leverage or using assistance which you will get the hang of overtime

Cool thanks for the tip.

[Falcon]

Yes, but HS is more of a skill work than FSP, spend longer times doing HS than the FSPs, 10 minutes would be enough.

You should do your FSPs like this: Measure your max hold on each FSP, for example: I can hold Tuck Back Lever for 40 seconds, that is my max hold, for progressing on the Flat Tuck BL, I need 60 seconds of Tuck BL hold, so, you take half of your hold (40 seconds max, that means 20 seconds) and you will be doing that for total of 60 seconds, that means, 20s x 3 sets = 60 seconds total. that should be your FSP warmup on each static hold

[Matthew Mossop]

Ok, but to progress to Flat Tuck BL from Tuck BL I should be able to hold a Tuck BL for 60 seconds straight correct? Until then I simply work on Tuck BL's for a total of 60 seconds?

So would a total of 60 second holds on each of L-sit, FL, and BL followed by say several minutes of HS be a decent warmup for the WOD? How would the progressions for the HS go? Just hold a wall HS for as long as possible until I get to 60, then attempt to move my feet off the wall and hold a regular HS for as long as possible? Also I would be doing this 2 or 3 times per week.

Seems like all of this is gonna take a while to put together. I'm gonna figure out all the different exercises in the WOD and then how much I have to scale them back etc. Must take a while to really get a hang of all this stuff eh?

[Tarun Suri]

Just focus on getting a goal of 60s HS to begin with. When I was new to it, it was pretty taxing. Until you reach 60s Wall HS (as a minimum), I wouldn't look at HS training as a skill yet.

[Matthew Mossop]

Just focus on getting a goal of 60s HS to begin with. When I was new to it, it was pretty taxing. Until you reach 60s Wall HS (as a minimum), I wouldn't look at HS training as a skill yet.

Cool thanks. I just performed my second WOD. The first one gave me some great soreness in places where I've never been sore before. Anyway I'm almost there... I have a wall HS for about 40 seconds or so. Should I strive to keep my hands as close to the wall as possible? Right now they're about one foot out from the wall.

Also, I have a ton of other questions I was hoping someone could answer. I know it's a lot... I have OCD though and am just constantly questioning everything and analyzing every little detail to try to get things perfect, so if anyone could help me out with these questions that would be great.

1) For warmup I've been doing L-sit, FL, German Hang and wall HS... each for a total of 60s. I plan on workout out 3 times per week, doing this as a warmup each time. Is that ok, or should I vary what I do as a warmup? I feel like I need to do some of these moves on a consistent basis to improve on them.

I also plan on adding planche training to this once I can hold a 60s L-sits (that is the prerequisite correct ?). Also once I can hold a German Hand for 60s should I move to BL progressions?

2) When doing a German Hand should I allow myself to lower as far as possible so all the stress is taken by my shoulders? I think right now I'm holding myself up a bit above my lowest point as to not stress my shoulders too much.

3) I'm getting a lot of soreness on the inside of my elbows after the German Hang... I guess this is normal as my tendons strengthen? It's not painful, just sore for a bit after. Also should I try to pull myself out of the hang once it's done, or just fall to the ground?

4) I've been working the FL and German Hang on a single bar... should I try to work these and other exercises on rings as much as possible?

5) Is 3 WOD per week enough to make significant progress? If I skip some of the WOD's I feel like maybe I'll miss some body part training. For example is each WOD oriented around one body part (chest, back, legs, shoulders, core, etc)? Should I pick and choose 3 WOD's per week which hit these body parts? Not sure if this is making sense, lol.

Anyway I plan on posting videos soon of my FL, BL, German Hang etc to make sure I'm doing them right.

Thanks a ton for any help .

[Joshua Naterman]

Just focus on getting a goal of 60s HS to begin with. When I was new to it, it was pretty taxing. Until you reach 60s Wall HS (as a minimum), I wouldn't look at HS training as a skill yet.

Cool thanks. I just performed my second WOD. The first one gave me some great soreness in places where I've never been sore before. Anyway I'm almost there... I have a wall HS for about 40 seconds or so. Should I strive to keep my hands as close to the wall as possible? Right now they're about one foot out from the wall.

Havoc gave great advice. Since you already have a 40s HS I would focus on moving an inch or two closer to the wall with a good bodyline, and once you're 4-6" off the wall with your wrist you can focus again on the time. Position first, then time! It WILL change how the handstand feels!

1) For warmup I've been doing L-sit, FL, German Hang and wall HS... each for a total of 60s. I plan on workout out 3 times per week, doing this as a warmup each time. Is that ok, or should I vary what I do as a warmup? I feel like I need to do some of these moves on a consistent basis to improve on them.

I also plan on adding planche training to this once I can hold a 60s L-sits (that is the prerequisite correct ?). Also once I can hold a German Hand for 60s should I move to BL progressions?

You should probably have more than JUST that as your warm up but keep the FSP steady in the warm up. once you have a 60s GH definitely go to the tuck BL and see how it feels. Start with your butt a bit high if you need to, over time you'll get the right position.

2) When doing a German Hand should I allow myself to lower as far as possible so all the stress is taken by my shoulders? I think right now I'm holding myself up a bit above my lowest point as to not stress my shoulders too much.

You want to lower as far as you can, but do it little by little. It's a lot of stress on the front delts if you don't take it slow.

3) I'm getting a lot of soreness on the inside of my elbows after the German Hang... I guess this is normal as my tendons strengthen? It's not painful, just sore for a bit after. Also should I try to pull myself out of the hang once it's done, or just fall to the ground?

You probably want to start working into a partial GH with a pullout and slowly increase the rom every few weeks. Trying from the bottom is going to be a bit much if you're already feeling it in the elbows! I'm going to make a much-needed forearm self-care video this weekend so tune in for that!

4) I've been working the FL and German Hang on a single bar... should I try to work these and other exercises on rings as much as possible?

Yes. Don't lose the bar though! GH on bar is tougher than on rings, so the rings might actually help you at first, but use the bar to gauge your elbows. It forces a full turnout.

5) Is 3 WOD per week enough to make significant progress? If I skip some of the WOD's I feel like maybe I'll miss some body part training. For example is each WOD oriented around one body part (chest, back, legs, shoulders, core, etc)? Should I pick and choose 3 WOD's per week which hit these body parts? Not sure if this is making sense, lol.

Yea, 3 wod per week is way better than nothing! Each WOD is oriented around a specific aspect of performance, and they are usually broken up into upper and lower body with core work in some of each. If you can, just do two WODs one of your three days. They are not on a 7 week cycle so you can't just say "oh I'll skip the 4th WOD each week" if you really want to hit everything correctly!

[Blairbob]

I would recommend competency in ring turned out support and dipping before you move on to training back levers.

[Joshua Naterman]

True that!

[Tarun Suri]

Cool thanks. I just performed my second WOD. The first one gave me some great soreness in places where I've never been sore before. Anyway I'm almost there... I have a wall HS for about 40 seconds or so. Should I strive to keep my hands as close to the wall as possible? Right now they're about one foot out from the wall.

Absolutely. You want to aim for about 1.5-2 inches from the wall. You always to feel like your arms are touching your ears. Most peoples HS are usually too wide.

Also, I have a ton of other questions I was hoping someone could answer. I know it's a lot... I have OCD though and am just constantly questioning everything and analyzing every little detail to try to get things perfect, so if anyone could help me out with these questions that would be great.

Questioning is good. Please remember that it should never interfere with you actually doing stuff and accomplishing goals. Don't let it take time away from training.

1) For warmup I've been doing L-sit, FL, German Hang and wall HS... each for a total of 60s. I plan on workout out 3 times per week, doing this as a warmup each time. Is that ok, or should I vary what I do as a warmup? I feel like I need to do some of these moves on a consistent basis to improve on them.

I think you just answered your own question.

I also plan on adding planche training to this once I can hold a 60s L-sits (that is the prerequisite correct ?). Also once I can hold a German Hand for 60s should I move to BL progressions?

I forget if its 3x30s or 3x60s for both LSit and Back Lever.

2) When doing a German Hand should I allow myself to lower as far as possible so all the stress is taken by my shoulders? I think right now I'm holding myself up a bit above my lowest point as to not stress my shoulders too much.

Before you progress to back lever, you want to be able to stay in that position for the allotted time in your most stretched position. Feet as far down and you can let it go. It should be a deep stretch.

3) I'm getting a lot of soreness on the inside of my elbows after the German Hang... I guess this is normal as my tendons strengthen? It's not painful, just sore for a bit after. Also should I try to pull myself out of the hang once it's done, or just fall to the ground?

Your pushing it too aggressively right now. Start on your feet, or knees, whatever. When training tendons and ligaments, you don't want to feel them at all. If you do, your aiming for injury.

4) I've been working the FL and German Hang on a single bar... should I try to work these and other exercises on rings as much as possible?

People have different preferences. Maybe someone else can answer this better than I can.

5) Is 3 WOD per week enough to make significant progress? If I skip some of the WOD's I feel like maybe I'll miss some body part training. For example is each WOD oriented around one body part (chest, back, legs, shoulders, core, etc)? Should I pick and choose 3 WOD's per week which hit these body parts? Not sure if this is making sense, lol.

The WoDs actually work on a 28 day cycle if I remember correctly. It goes beyond just body parts. It takes into considerations planes of movements, and a bunch of other factors that I won't even pretend to know. I'd be best if you perform all 4 WoDs a week. I understand that it may not fit into your schedule. If so, just choose randomly for now until you slowly get an understanding of the programming and then you'll make the right decision when the time comes. Don't let your OCD distract you just because of this.

Anyway I plan on posting videos soon of my FL, BL, German Hang etc to make sure I'm doing them right.

Thanks a ton for any help .

That's awesome. Best of luck.

EDIT*** Just realized a bunch of people beat me to the post. Apologies if it was a bit repetitive.

[Matthew Mossop]

Thanks Slizzardman and RandomHavoc for all the help... really appreciate it.

You should probably have more than JUST that as your warm up but keep the FSP steady in the warm up. once you have a 60s GH definitely go to the tuck BL and see how it feels. Start with your butt a bit high if you need to, over time you'll get the right position.

Based on this and what blairbob said I also added holding a ring turned out support for 60s to my warmup.

You probably want to start working into a partial GH with a pullout and slowly increase the rom every few weeks. Trying from the bottom is going to be a bit much if you're already feeling it in the elbows! I'm going to make a much-needed forearm self-care video this weekend so tune in for that!

I was actually able to pullout of a couple of them surprisingly... and cool I'll watch for that.

If you can, just do two WODs one of your three days. They are not on a 7 week cycle so you can't just say "oh I'll skip the 4th WOD each week" if you really want to hit everything correctly!

Is one of the WOD's always legs? If so I'll skip that one, lol. Yes I know I should do legs, but I don't think I can manage 4 WOD's per week, and I do jog and stretch my legs regularly so that's some work. Plus I'm not looking to become a gymnast or anything.

Absolutely. You want to aim for about 1.5-2 inches from the wall. You always to feel like your arms are touching your ears. Most peoples HS are usually too wide.

Hmm yes mine too... I'll work on keeping my arms closer together.

If so, just choose randomly for now until you slowly get an understanding of the programming and then you'll make the right decision when the time comes. Don't let your OCD distract you just because of this.

That's tough, lol... I'm constantly questioning everything... is this right, is that right, am I working this body part enough, etc etc. Anyway, once I get more into this stuff that should all calm down a bunch.

I performed one of the WOD's today with a bunch of handstand work and have some more questions.

During the box HeSPU I felt like I was just doing a diagonal pushup (i.e. body straight out instead of bent 90 degrees). I guess for these you really have to work on getting your ass in the air? Anyway I found it a bit tough.

I also had a ton of trouble doing the Box Press HS stuff... I couldn't do it at all. Thinking back though I think this may have been the same problem... my body was straight instead of bent at the hips. It's tough to tell your exact body position though unless there's a mirror right there or someone to help. Anyway, I'll try these again next time making more effort to bend at the hips, but if I still can't do them are there some easier variations?

Oh ya, and I may also add negative MU's to my warm up or the end of the workout since my transition is pretty pathetic. I basically just fall through the transition. I can lower slowly to that point, but not through it. Any advice to help improve this? I'll post a video of what I mean later too.

Thanks again for any help!

[Blairbob]

I also had a ton of trouble doing the Box Press HS stuff

Umm, did you see the quick video I did on box and mat press HS?

Easier than that? Maybe HeS LegLifts. Or HS negative leg lifts.

[Matthew Mossop]

I looked a little for your video and couldn't find it... can you post the link?

I think may the problem with the box presses were that my hips weren't piked, which would make the move pretty impossible, so I'll try it again next time making sure my hips are bent.

Any advice for muscle up transitions?

[Joshua Naterman]

Nothing wrong with skipping legs if you want, but it won't always be once a week. There will be weeks with no legs and weeks with two leg sessions, one for strength and one for rebounding and explosiveness. It just depends on how the 28 day cycle fits into the current month.

[Niklas Slotte]

I looked a little for your video and couldn't find it... can you post the link?

It's the first sticky in the handstand work section: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6716

[Matthew Mossop]

Thanks Niklas and Slizzardman.