Fight Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Hey guys, new to this board, new to gymnastics, so forgive me for anything I may screw up. I'm a biggish guy at 6'3" 195-200, probably like 12% bodyfat. I've been lifting for a while now and have some respectable lift numbers, but lately I've been feeling the need to translate that strength into something athletic. I've fought for a long time, but was always interested in gymnastics.My question to yall is this:What is possible for a bigger guy like me to accomplish, and how would I go about getting there? Where to start, what to do, etc etc. I realize I won't compete, and that's fine, I just don't want to be the guy who lifts to lift. Thanks in advance for any advice/pointers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaughingTiger Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 As someone who is shorter than you but heavier, I guess I qualify as a big guy. I'm 5'9" and usually weigh between 220 to 230 lbs. I'm still a beginner, and working on my basic strength. As far as a good starting point, I'd say test yourself to see how weight lifting translates to body weight exercises.Are you able to do dips and pull ups? Are your shoulders strong enough to allow you to do a handstand against a wall? When I was in my twenties and much smaller, I thought I was something because I could bench press 280 lbs. I bought myself a pull up bar, and learned quickly that type of strength didn't help me with chin ups.Test yourself with pull ups, dips, planks, and the exercises in the prerequisites thread to see how you can support your weight. You can use that knowledge along with some specific gymnastic goals you want to achieve to design a program that will really work for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Start Test Smith Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 You should read the stickies in the Getting Started section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Hey guys, new to this board, new to gymnastics, so forgive me for anything I may screw up. I'm a biggish guy at 6'3" 195-200, probably like 12% bodyfat. I've been lifting for a while now and have some respectable lift numbers, but lately I've been feeling the need to translate that strength into something athletic. I've fought for a long time, but was always interested in gymnastics.My question to yall is this:What is possible for a bigger guy like me to accomplish, and how would I go about getting there? Where to start, what to do, etc etc. I realize I won't compete, and that's fine, I just don't want to be the guy who lifts to lift. Thanks in advance for any advice/pointers.I'm about your size at 6'2 200 flat right now, around 10% or slightly under. I would like to give a shout out to Jeff@CFST for the Biosig service, it is working fantastically well. Anyways, I can do easy FL full lay, nearly full ROM HSPU on the rings with feet inside the strap, XR handstand with rings turned slightly out for 10-15s with feet inside the straps, SLS with 50+ lbs for reps ( I don't train these very often), nearly assistance-free NLC full lay (two fingers at a slow tempo), strong wide XR support, dead hang OAC with both arms, strap iron cross, easy wide muscle ups, and I'm getting much closer to a proper straddle HS press. I won't list everything I can do, that would be a huge post, but the above should give you an idea of what you should be able to accomplish after around 12-18 months if you just take your time and take the advice of Coach and bigger guys like me who have tried to rush and gotten hurt. This is all progress I have made since January or so for the most part, since the previous 12 months were pretty much wasted due to injuries sustained by trying to rush forward. I'm getting stronger FASTER now that I am just taking my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatioFitness Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Hey guys, new to this board, new to gymnastics, so forgive me for anything I may screw up. I'm a biggish guy at 6'3" 195-200, probably like 12% bodyfat. I've been lifting for a while now and have some respectable lift numbers, but lately I've been feeling the need to translate that strength into something athletic. I've fought for a long time, but was always interested in gymnastics.My question to yall is this:What is possible for a bigger guy like me to accomplish, and how would I go about getting there? Where to start, what to do, etc etc. I realize I won't compete, and that's fine, I just don't want to be the guy who lifts to lift. Thanks in advance for any advice/pointers.I'm about your size at 6'2 200 flat right now, around 10% or slightly under. I would like to give a shout out to Jeff@CFST for the Biosig service, it is working fantastically well. Anyways, I can do easy FL full lay, nearly full ROM HSPU on the rings with feet inside the strap, XR handstand with rings turned slightly out for 10-15s with feet inside the straps, SLS with 50+ lbs for reps ( I don't train these very often), nearly assistance-free NLC full lay (two fingers at a slow tempo), strong wide XR support, dead hang OAC with both arms, strap iron cross, easy wide muscle ups, and I'm getting much closer to a proper straddle HS press. I won't list everything I can do, that would be a huge post, but the above should give you an idea of what you should be able to accomplish after around 12-18 months if you just take your time and take the advice of Coach and bigger guys like me who have tried to rush and gotten hurt. This is all progress I have made since January or so for the most part, since the previous 12 months were pretty much wasted due to injuries sustained by trying to rush forward. I'm getting stronger FASTER now that I am just taking my time.Wow. I'm 5'9" @ 165 and I can't do hardly any of that except HSPU (4 ugly reps but full ROM). Also, I've been doing this since January 2009. I must be doing something wrong, or I have pathetic genetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 Well, to be fair Dillon and I have figured out some pretty good strength-accelerating programming. That gives us a pretty big advantage compared to pretty much everyone else. If things really go well I might have a feet-around-the-straps reverse muscle up by September, but 100% for sure by next May. Genetics aren't that big of a deal for this level of strength. Getting to advanced ring strength is something else again, but that's way down the road.Of course that last bit is something of an unsubstantiated opinion, so feel free to disagree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Sjolin Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Anyways, I can do easy FL full lay, nearly full ROM HSPU on the rings with feet inside the strap, XR handstand with rings turned slightly out for 10-15s with feet inside the straps, SLS with 50+ lbs for reps ( I don't train these very often), nearly assistance-free NLC full lay (two fingers at a slow tempo), strong wide XR support, dead hang OAC with both arms, strap iron cross, easy wide muscle ups, and I'm getting much closer to a proper straddle HS press.Jeez Slizz, that's a really impressive list! You were holding back in May weren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatioFitness Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Genetics aren't that big of a deal for this level of strength.What about the studies that show after weeks of strength training some individuals gain no strength? We're talking about newbies here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fight Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 I'm not sure what yall mean by "this level of strength". I'm currently pulling 430 for a single on deadlifts, 320 on squat (bad knees) and 8-10 weighted chins with 55lbs extra on. Is this beneficial to gymnastic and calisthenic strength? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatioFitness Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 He's means beginner level strength for gymnastics. Most of the things in BTGB are just beginner level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Anyways, I can do easy FL full lay, nearly full ROM HSPU on the rings with feet inside the strap, XR handstand with rings turned slightly out for 10-15s with feet inside the straps, SLS with 50+ lbs for reps ( I don't train these very often), nearly assistance-free NLC full lay (two fingers at a slow tempo), strong wide XR support, dead hang OAC with both arms, strap iron cross, easy wide muscle ups, and I'm getting much closer to a proper straddle HS press.Jeez Slizz, that's a really impressive list! You were holding back in May weren't you? A little, but a lot of this progress has been recent, at least with the handstands. The very high volume (slowly scaled up to, of course) of scapular muscle work has been making a massive difference for me. I truly believe that the best progress will always come from using the best equipment for each particular goal, and nothing can touch the freemotion machines for working the external rotators and other smaller scapular muscles. I do think that bands are the next best thing and are excellent themselves, and I do use them as well. Very different it is, with bands instead of cable machines.I did show coach a dead hang OAC with each arm. I'm pretty sure it was him I showed both arms. It wasn't the prettiest thing, but it was there lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I'm not sure what yall mean by "this level of strength". I'm currently pulling 430 for a single on deadlifts, 320 on squat (bad knees) and 8-10 weighted chins with 55lbs extra on. Is this beneficial to gymnastic and calisthenic strength?I mean the skills I described in my abbreviated list. Weighted chins and weighted dips (and if you have a vest weighted push ups and weighted body rows) are the absolute best large muscle and strength builders for calisthenic work. They won't do anything for the off angles but they really set you up with a strong base, far beyond what it seems like they should. I do not suggest anyone abandon them or stop working on them. You want to get to sets of 3 perfect chins with 120-135 lbs of extra weight before you start getting into OAC work, in my opinion. You can definitely start doing single arm holds and heavily assisted work, but be careful and don't do too much too fast. I'd say, based purely on personal experience, that single hand chin ups are a good idea for you to start practicing submaximally 2-3 times a week. Just 1 set before you do your weighted chins would be great and maybe 2-3 sets on the other days. You just grip the bar or ring with one hand and the other hand goes on the supporting hand's wrist. That way only one hand is holding all your weight but both arms can pull your body up. You probably won't have too much of a problem with this. If you can do 6 reps per arm, I'd say that each set should have 3-4 reps per arm. Grip will be the major factor in this at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtT Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Well, to be fair Dillon and I have figured out some pretty good strength-accelerating programming. That gives us a pretty big advantage compared to pretty much everyone else. If things really go well I might have a feet-around-the-straps reverse muscle up by September, but 100% for sure by next May. Genetics aren't that big of a deal for this level of strength. Getting to advanced ring strength is something else again, but that's way down the road.Of course that last bit is something of an unsubstantiated opinion, so feel free to disagree!can you give us some inside knowledge? does it depent on the wod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Sjolin Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Anyways, I can do easy FL full lay, nearly full ROM HSPU on the rings with feet inside the strap, XR handstand with rings turned slightly out for 10-15s with feet inside the straps, SLS with 50+ lbs for reps ( I don't train these very often), nearly assistance-free NLC full lay (two fingers at a slow tempo), strong wide XR support, dead hang OAC with both arms, strap iron cross, easy wide muscle ups, and I'm getting much closer to a proper straddle HS press.Jeez Slizz, that's a really impressive list! You were holding back in May weren't you? A little, but a lot of this progress has been recent, at least with the handstands. The very high volume (slowly scaled up to, of course) of scapular muscle work has been making a massive difference for me. I truly believe that the best progress will always come from using the best equipment for each particular goal, and nothing can touch the freemotion machines for working the external rotators and other smaller scapular muscles. I do think that bands are the next best thing and are excellent themselves, and I do use them as well. Very different it is, with bands instead of cable machines.I did show coach a dead hang OAC with each arm. I'm pretty sure it was him I showed both arms. It wasn't the prettiest thing, but it was there lol!Hmmm, what sort of scapular work have you been doing? And I'm guessing by "freemotion" you mean a cable machine? I don't really want to hijack the thread, but big guys need every single morsel of information they can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Yea, freemotion is just a brand of highly adjustable cable machines. "Functional Trainers" are what they brand themselves as. I have been doing symmetrical and asymmetrical shoulder extensions and retractions, external rotations at varying angles and heights, and combination external rotation/scapular retraction work, also symmetrical and asymmetrical. I do use equal loading, at least so far.Also, the shoulder routine Dillon showed is excellent. I am thinking that will bring me to proper rings inlocates in a year or two. I am using 22.5 lbs per arm and I add around 1-2 lb every few weeks. By the time I can do them with around 60-70 lbs I should be pretty close to good for unspotted inlocates. That will be crazy, until recently I didn't think I'd ever be able to do one but now I think it will come. I am expecting maybe the May after next or so being when I try my first bodyweight inlocate. Keep in mind I'm doing sets of 20 reps or more for the inlocates with the weight I am listing.Edit: Keep in mind that my base training, believe it or not, is still more or less exactly similar to the WODs. I'm not doing any dynamic (explosive) upper body work for a long time, but I do my FSP pre-requisites nearly every day and I do some FL and L sit FSP work 4 days a week as recommended in the SSC. I highly, highly suggest that everyone start out with the WODs as soon as they can and stick with them for at least 6 months but preferably for a long time. They should really be the core of your conditioning. They are basically the core of mine. The major strength of the WODs is that you are doing so many different movements while still regularly working the same muscles. I can't tell you how much strength I have added just by getting back to this as my shoulders have allowed. I think the most important thing that I have discovered is just how important it is to go through 1 set of every single progression up to your work sets. I'm not talking about sets to failure or even close, but just by doing 3-4 FL pulls, front pulls, yewkis and reverse yewkis before doing 2-4 sets of cranks, for example, yields a massive amount of strength and saves a ton of time. I only need like 20s of rest or less between each of those warm up sets because I am not even coming close to pushing my limits with what I am doing. 3 FL pulls when I can do 15 is not hard. Try to set up your warm ups like that and see how fast you start getting stronger. This isn't my invention, it's recommended in The Book. It's a good deal, I'll never stop. It's way more fun than starting light and adding plates too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatioFitness Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Also, the soulder routine Dillon showed is excellent.He showed this at the seminar or on the board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Seminar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Sortino Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Something like this?I thought you were broke, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I am but the GSU gym is free! Trust me, I WILL own one of these someday. One of these or something just like it.I just made a two pulley assisted OAC setup, it's frikin sweet. Now I can finally make fine adjustments to the assistance I use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Stelling Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I am thinking that will bring me to proper rings inlocates in a year or two. I am using 22.5 lbs per arm and I add around 1-2 lb every few weeks. By the time I can do them with around 60-70 lbs I should be pretty close to good for unspotted inlocates. What are inlocates? Does anyone have a video of this? Is the weight you mention above what you are using for the exercises listed in the qoute below:I have been doing symmetrical and asymmetrical shoulder extensions and retractions, external rotations at varying angles and heights, and combination external rotation/scapular retraction work, also symmetrical and asymmetrical. Are you doing this stuff as basically an all angle multi-movement super set? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Stelling Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 OK so I just youtubed inlocates on rings and giants on rings. Inlocates are basically straight arm front rotations "flips" if you will, while holding on to the rings and giants are the same but you go backwards. Do I have this right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Not quite, but close.Giants are swinging elements. Inlocate is basically moving from palms facing forward to palms facing backwards while staying in a straight arm hang. I am specifically referring to a slow inlocate. You see a lot of guys do this to get into an inverted pike and then kip to support or cross or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 5Wf9PXQfrYg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Nice! Thank you Bob! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusuni Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Slizz I thought you were bulking up a bit? 200 seems light for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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