Coaching boys- please help!

[Blythe Tait]

I recently gained my Men's Artistic Gymnastics certification and had assumed that I would be coaching the lowest level boys, but due to lack of coaching staff, I am about to start coaching a group of boys striving to grade level 3 (Australian National Levels Program). These boys have been without a regular coach and are hugely lacking in upper body strength.

I have been doing BtGB WODS for 6 months myself, and I would like to start incorporating the FSPs within the Steady State Training Cycle as well as the FBEs for these boys, but I'm uncertain how these should be worked in to our usual timetable. We would usually do a warm up, followed by 'shapes', followed by stretching, and then the rest of the session is divided into equal time slots on each apparatus, ending with a strength or flexibility session...

1. Would the FSPs be best incorporated into the boys' warmups the way many of us do in our WODS (after their usual running/sprinting/rebounds, etc?)

2. Where should I put conditioning??? I always thought Conditioning should go after skills training (Thomas Kurz), but Edouard Ianov apparently does it first while the boys are fresh.

3. Can the WODS be used as conditoning with these boys, or are they too generalised, targetting a population that isn't doing gymnastics skills training? I may have to adjust each WOD eg. pull/push instead of just pull, since I only see the boys for 2 sessions of 2 hours per week, but is the '4 rounds' approach still appropriate for this target group?.

So, basically...

What would be the best way to increase these boys' strength?

I am lucky to have a senior MAG coach here to ask questions of, but my limited research on the Net has shown me how varied coaches' teaching methods can be, and I am worried about getting it wrong! It seems so unfair for these kids (not to mention the parents paying for these far-from-cheap sessions!).

Any advice would be much appreciated.

By the way, I have a copy of BtGB as well as access to other strength drills. I am more after advice on how to present these.

Blythe

[Reveridian]

Ooooook... Well I'm a WAG coach but I do live in Aus so I know what you're on about. It is tough starting out as a coach and remember that no matter how informed you are, you WILL make mistakes; it's unavoidable.

It sounds like you don't have much time and I think they should be training more if they're at that level. I'm fairly sure the hours aren't restricted to 4 are they? I only know that in WAG 3C their hours are restricted to 10 per week.

For 1. I would probably do planche progressions and L sit progressions at the start. Maybe think about embedding the other FSPs into some rings strength giant sets or something like that (I think it just might save a bit of time).

For 2. Ideally, in a perfect world, you would probably do conditioning on different days to the skills training. I personally run my girls strength conditioning right after the warm up because I find that they're just too tired to do it at the end. They are generally a bit more tired during skills training but I make sure that their technique doesn't suffer because of it. I have half an hour warm up, half an hour strength and then half an hour on each apparatus, however I spend 15 mins on each apparatus for strength followed by 15 mins skills training.

For 3. The WODs are, as far as I'm aware, what Coach uses for his gymnasts so no it isn't targeted for a separate population it is, in fact, targeted specifically for gymnasts I probably wouldn't run it for your group though because I think it would take too much time and it is set out for 4 days instead of 2. You are probably better off doing 2 days of a full body workout as long as they aren't still sore at the next training session. That's what I would do

Nowwwww... Make sure that you spend a significant amount of time on strength, especially for a MAG program. In my experience you will see significant improvements as their strength increases and they will find learning skills a lot easier.

Secondly be very careful with overtraining, especially wrists and ankles. Run a good prehab program!! One of my most recent mistakes was my girls, and myself, being a little overzealous in our training and getting sore wrists and ankles. Mild RSI I think but they are getting better now and my programs have improved as a result. Just be careful is all I'm saying

And to end my fairly long rant, make full use of your senior MAG coach. His wealth of experience is priceless

Good luck mate. Let me know if you need anything else,

Reveridian

[Blairbob]

2 hours is going to be tight, real tight with time.

a lot of this may depend on how your equipment is set up. is the apparatus set up all in 1 general area? do you have a trampoline or tumble-trak?

I would use a short WU. Sometimes it's good to let the boys run just to get some steam out of their engine but I like using a lot of element basics as warmup such as rolls, cartwheels, limbers. However, you can only use these as warmup elements if they can do them well in the first place and I would generally do some easier variants to start getting their bodies warmed up. For example, I wouldn't rush into handstand walks or handstand limbers to start.

If the men's area is all in one area, you can set up a circuit for warmup. I like having them do something like high bar turns and straddled side to side ring swings to go with deck squats or lunges, bear/crab walk variations (ag walks would suffice), besides jumps and hops.

I would do a short WU that also focuses on loosening up. Notice the straddled ring swings open up the hips and loosen up the shoulders and back. Lunges and deck squats open up the hips and get the heart rate up.

Then I would go through basic positions, stretches and shapes. Hollow, V, arch, pike, straddle, bridges and limbers.

Generally after that I would include some HS work. It doesn't have to be a lot given that you only have 120 minutes. 10-15 kick to HS. You could set it up as a circuit of spotted kick to HS, wall HS, kick to HS on parallettes against wall, press HeS/HS.

After that I generally would go through plank work. Front/rear plank, side planks, hollow and arch. Pick a short enough hold time that they can just switch from position to position. You won't really want to have rest time and rest times with boys means bored or too tired (which isn't bad but that means you can't get any work done).

Generally I always did SR/FX/PB and HB/V/PH and I would alternate FX and V and trampoline work. They would always do some floor basics but they might then go work tramp work instead of focusing on RO or handspring development.

I'm not sure what their routines are like but you may want to limit pommel stuff to very simple stuff. Set up a bucket, do just basic pommel holds and pommel walks. PB rotational circles can be good as well where they simply hold support and try to rotate their hips around a small octagon or barrel under the PB.

Generally, towards the end I would do the FBE portion of the day. We would do the FSP version after the planks. Some form of SSC that for some boys may actually only be FSP WU elements. Because of time, you'll probably have to do it in circuit fashion.

2. Some coaches prefer this. It's also easier to program schedule wise. The boys at our club do this ( I coach WAG now ) but I'm not too impressed by this. It's a general strength program and not exactly that specific from one boy to the other. While this is simple, I was able to teach my boy's progression order and which ones they should be doing and of course they would just ask. This allows me to not have to spot everything or a lot of the progressions. You just have to be a stickler for detail, of course.

3. You may want to start them off with 2 or 3 rounds. It may vary from one boy to the next.

[Blairbob]

I think last summer my boy's program was 3d/week by 2 hours.

A lot of the time we would work the basic hangs and support and german hang as a warmup for when we had a rings day.

Because of time, I also had to alternate working the plank series or L/straddle-L work. Mainly this was done to appease the owners as they felt my programming was too hard on the boy's. Honestly, a few of them were ridiculous weak in mind and body. Some had no problems with it while others would whine and the owners didn't want them dropping out. So I relented and alternated some of the physical prep work and made sure there was enough time on tramp or flipping, etc somewhere in there.

[Blythe Tait]

Blairbob and Reveridian, thank you thank you thank you!

I spent hours writing notes for the first lesson, only to find that I had been a bit optimistic. Behaviour management is one of the biggest time-eaters in my class (one kid is ADHD), and the rest of the kids really just want to play games (I had them in the 0-2 class which I assisted with); they seem so much younger than their age (10-12 year olds)! I am having to re-write everything to disguise everything in game and competition format. I don't mind that, I think gymnastics should be fun, but I also think that some things just have to be done (again and again and again!!) and that not everything can be as exciting as the circus! Sadly, if things are too 'tough', we will lose the gymnasts, and we need every gymnast we can get, epecially boys. Blairbob, I read something you said about not loving your gymnasts who whine over S&C, and I absolutely relate. The word (dare I say it) 'wimpy' comes to mind with some of these gymasts. I used to do Crossfit 5 days a week, and the people in that box...just ordinary people of all ages and sizes all fighting to finish the WOD...I find it difficult to relate to gymnasts who don't have any hunger or backbone!

That's one of the things I love about teaching adults; they want to be there, and usually, they don't have the time or the money to fritter away on something ineffective. Or that's how I am, anyway!

Anyway, I may have to get very creative to keep everyone's attention...

Anyway, I was thrilled to get your responses. And Reveridian, thanks for what you said about realising that I would make mistakes, it's inevitable. Off I go to make some mistakes. If either of you have any ideas about how to present Coach Sommer's stuff in a VERY DISGUISED way (besides timed comps), let me know.

[Blairbob]

Good luck on that.

I try to train them from the beginning somewhat tough. Not super tough or demanding, but I don't see the point of being super easy early on and hoping they will be tough and disciplined 2-3 years afterwards by changing it up then. Of course, some will be inherently tough and some will just be candy/half asses.

This is one of the hardest things I have to deal with as a coach. When I was 5 or 6 in judo, I was very squirrely which caused some embarassment to my dad, as he was one of the senior judoka there and also helped coached the kids.

Fortunately over time, lots of duckwalks and floor crawls solved this. By the time I was 7 or 8 in other sports, I was always on task and it's carried to this day though I do find my time getting wasted sometimes when I train at the gym because people talk to me or ask for me about help or get social. Nowadays, I can't stand those attitudes or lack of discipline or focus. It's better with the girls sometimes, but it can still be pretty bad.

The reality of it is you are probably not if you are in danger of losing kids. Once your program is top-notch you can do this I think but not when it's beginning and struggling to make ends meet.

10-12yo nowadays can really be a bunch of candy/half asses which I was nearly refuse to coach that age in rec boy's. It's more babysitting than anything else and you have probably heard their whining.

Honestly, I still prefer to make the basics mandatory and they either sink or swim. You can use peer pressure to say why is so and so whining when even the weakest kid is busting their butt as sometimes the more talented ones are really candy/half ass. Or you can just ignore them. That's what I've been told to do by my higher-ups but it grates on me.

I created a chart for the boys with stars so when they can do a certain skill or strength skill they get to put a star on it. It was put for public display. They really dig that everyone can see their achievements. You can also use a gym bell to recieve recognition. Some parents sometimes moan that being that it's public others can see when some kids are lacking. Amongst ourselves we said this is a competitive sport, they are going to have to deal with that.

[Reveridian]

Blairbob and Reveridian, thank you thank you thank you!

I spent hours writing notes for the first lesson, only to find that I had been a bit optimistic. Behaviour management is one of the biggest time-eaters in my class (one kid is ADHD), and the rest of the kids really just want to play games (I had them in the 0-2 class which I assisted with); they seem so much younger than their age (10-12 year olds)! I am having to re-write everything to disguise everything in game and competition format. I don't mind that, I think gymnastics should be fun, but I also think that some things just have to be done (again and again and again!!) and that not everything can be as exciting as the circus! Sadly, if things are too 'tough', we will lose the gymnasts, and we need every gymnast we can get, epecially boys. Blairbob, I read something you said about not loving your gymnasts who whine over S&C, and I absolutely relate. The word (dare I say it) 'wimpy' comes to mind with some of these gymasts. I used to do Crossfit 5 days a week, and the people in that box...just ordinary people of all ages and sizes all fighting to finish the WOD...I find it difficult to relate to gymnasts who don't have any hunger or backbone!

That's one of the things I love about teaching adults; they want to be there, and usually, they don't have the time or the money to fritter away on something ineffective. Or that's how I am, anyway!

Anyway, I may have to get very creative to keep everyone's attention...

Anyway, I was thrilled to get your responses. And Reveridian, thanks for what you said about realising that I would make mistakes, it's inevitable. Off I go to make some mistakes. If either of you have any ideas about how to present Coach Sommer's stuff in a VERY DISGUISED way (besides timed comps), let me know.

Well I coach girls so I have very different problems to you guys haha I really don't like coaching boys at all haha. It is very hard to try and "create" a passion for gymnastics in boys that just want to muck around but it IS possible. And by all means make some things fun and incorporate it in games etc but also make sure that you are strict enough and they do it properly. At our gym we have a bell that can be rung when a new skill is achieved. I have also played around with the idea of creating a chart just like Blairbob mentioned. I have yet to implement it but I think it's a great idea, especially for boys. Competitions are great and remember they don't always have to be timed, you can make it out of 10 or just whoever does the best one or anything that you can think of I also don't put up with whiney kids but sometimes you can't get out of it. With the right encouragement though I believe any gymnast can form a passion for gymnastics and even strength.

If they get a new skill or have achieved a new strength progression then be really, genuinely excited for them and they will respond. If you have the passion then they will see that and use you as a role model. Oh and try and do strength testing fairly regularly. They will really strive to get stronger if they, and you, can see that they are improving. And if they don't improve then let them see you are disappointed and if they respect you they will not be happy with that. Remember that YOU are the coach and they WILL do what YOU say. You must have the authority and have their respect.

Good luck mate If ya need anything else just let us know. Remember it all comes with experience

[Blairbob]

Reveridian, that's exactly why I coach girls now and have gone back there. We have to give props to Coach Sommer for doing it so long. I still miss coaching MAG, especially the events but given the headaches of girls vs boys, I've gone the girls option. There are a lot of other issues that I don't have to deal with coaching boys compared to girls logistically as well. Our boys program is pretty tough and they set it that way from the start and have been able to keep it that way but they did not have to worry about making numbers hit from day1.

I generally did strength testing every 2 months to redesign their FSP/FBE programs and those weeks were light weeks since testing meant maxing out. Generally omitted during competition season. Every once in awhile, I might let a boy test one strength skill if he asked but generally limited it somewhat. This was more for boys who did not come as often and were only on pre-team vs team.

[Coach Sommer]

I have found the following insights helpful when working with young developing male gymnasts. In essence it helps to remember that most young boys are warriors at heart who yearn for the opportunity to test, challenge and prove themselves.

- Boys love structure in everything; the stretch, the skill training, the conditioning, the consistency of the rules for behavior, etc. Once you set up your program leave it in place and give it time to mature before making changes. Constant restructuring may satisfy your emotional need for change and variety as a coach, but it will do so to the detriment of your athletes. I once went an entire year without making any changes whatsoever to my athletes' conditioning program. Interestingly we also won a National Championship that year.

- Boys love to be challenged; especially in a group environment. I always make a big deal of pointing out to the group when someone achieves a superior performance whether in practice, conditioning or competition. A caveat is necessary here however, my standards for excellence are completely predicated upon personal best effort. I am unimpressed by a national team member who "cruises" to a victory, but will go out of my way to publically recognize the efforts of a young 7 year old with relatively poor athletic ability who refuses to give me less than all he has.

- Boys will live up to whatever expectations you have of them; if you are firm, fair and consistent. It should be noted that they will also live down to your expectations if you set the bar too low.

- "Seniority" is a major component of retaining the attention of young men; especially in the 8-12 year bracket. I line these boys up for everything (attendance, warmup, skill training, conditioning, even water breaks) according to seniority. For my teams, seniority is measured exclusively by whether or not someone is giving me their best effort; not by their actual competitive results or the quality of gymnastics or conditioning they have achieved.

This is a very powerful tool for working with this age group. For example I once had an athlete who, at 8 years old, was performing quite poorly in warmups at his first national championships. I simply mentioned in passing to him that his team mates were going to be pumped to finally have the chance to be "senior" to him. He promptly forgot his nerves of being at nationals and began to focus solely on out performing his team mates at home. The result? He placed second.

- Always hold boys to the highest possible standards of excellence. For instance I rarely tell them that something was "good", but will usually restrict it to that was "better", or an "improvement", or "nice try". I am also not shy about letting them know when something is unacceptable; either technically or attitudinally. I am however always on the lookout for an opportunity to recognize best effort.

- I personally supervise and count every rep of every exercise that my lower level athletes perform. To facilitate this I will break the group into two and have one group perform the reps by my count while the other group rests and then switch. Poorly performed reps do not count and will be repeated by the entire group. If the group fails to achieve their minimum assigned reps that set does not count for that group. Groups that finish early may earn additional time in the pit or tramp while the other group finishes their assignment.

- I constantly provide concrete goals of excellence for the boys to chase. For example in conditioning the 6 year old boys are allowed to stop after 5 pullups, but I make a big deal of any athlete that attempts to do 10 pullups like the "big guys" (well big to them, the 8 year olds). However only athletes who have done an excellent job on their 5 reps are allowed the privilege of striving for 10.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Reveridian]

Very interesting insights Coach thank you. Also very true haha. This will be an excellent resource for ANYONE coaching boys, especially those younger coaches who are just getting into the whole thing. Some of these things are also true of girls and I find that inspirational. My girls work extremely hard and we sometimes have competitions against the boys etc. I find it really pushes them as NONE of them wanna lose to a "boy" haha.

Anyways cheers mate, always good to pry more information out of you

Rev

[Blairbob]

I love having the boys and girls compete against each other, generally in strength competitions.

We do something before that time of the day when they all line up to go home and chant "Go Bears!" We ask the girls if they got any new skills that day and generally that gymnast gets to lead.

For my boys, being team captain means you are the hardest working and most responsible. Like any tribal community, that title can be lost.

[Blythe Tait]

Coach, fantastic, thank you!