TUT:Where does volume fit in?

[Josh Schmitter]

"Power, strength, and endurance aren't about rep numbers, those rep numbers just so happen to tend to put you near the correct set time lengths for certain training effects. It's about time under tension. If the muscles are working constantly for 1-20 seconds, you're going to get a power response. Your nervous system will become more efficient, and you will see strength gains because of that. If your sets last 20-40 seconds then you will get strength results, which means you will be experiencing myofibrillar hypertrophy. In layman's terms, there are going to be more actin and myosin strands in the muscle and so you will be stronger. This adds minimal size. At 40-60 seconds you will be primarily adding size. This is sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, and it's literally the muscle cell increasing its fluid volume. This primarily adds size. From 60-90 seconds you are in the pure endurance zone. This set length really develops the muscular endurance, not strength so much. For these set lengths to mean anything, the set time has to be imposed by the resistance being too much for you somewhere in the given range. So if you do planche pushups and you can do them for a minute, but you stop at 30 seconds, you are not going to get strength out of that even though you are in the numerical range for strength. You did not fail in the 20-40 second range, you chose to stop. Choosing to stop doesn't mean anything. The end of the set has to be determined by the momentary failure of the muscles working for these times to translate to actual progress.

Obviously, as you approach one end of the time range for each training effect(power, strength, size, endurance) you will start to get a mixed training effect. It should be fairly obvious that if you fail at 38 seconds you are going to be gaining more size than if you fail at 24 seconds.

If you consider that typical reps take from 2-4 seconds to complete, at a 4 second repetition you would be doing 1-5 reps for power. Surprise! That's the traditional way of doing things. It just so happens that those rep ranges put the lifters in the correct time under tension range. In he same vein, 2 second reps would mean that 20 reps still puts you at the tail end of the strength range. You're moving into strength-endurance, which puts on a bit more size than maximal strength work, but hey, you're still getting a strong maximal strength effect as well."

"Doing 20 reps is not necessary in the endurance range so much as the strength and size range, since at his speed that put him around 45 seconds for the set. It IS higher reps, but doing that helps you develop the smaller muscles and connective tissues. It also puts you in a position where you are now no longer in your strength zone, meaning you can do something harder. It really isn't much different that what Coach recommends with the steady state training, at least physiologically speaking. You end up underloaded, which is the point. It's a different way to get there, and combined with the steady state training it should speed up the timelines."

"80%(of max weight) is still well below myofibrular(strength) range. At 80% you should be doing 10-15 reps, and that is squarely in sarcoplasmic hypertrophy area. I'm not saying that myofibrular won't occur, but it will not be emphasized. You have to be working above 90%(of max) to really be stimulating myofibrular hypertrophy and strength gains. You will obviously gain some strength no matter what you do, but to be stimulating strength as a primary training response you've got to be working with a weight that you can't handle for more than 30 seconds at the most, which tends to be in the 6 rep range on the high end. It could be that those 6 reps take 15 seconds, that's fine. It's still strength work. After that you're moving into size gaining work. You won't get too much size from that unless you're on the juice. Anything you can do 10 or more reps with isn't all that heavy for you."

"There is, and there are two considerations: total time of the set AND number of reps. Usually these correlate pretty closely with each other. It's as much about energy systems as it is about fiber recruitment. As far as energy system stimulation goes, if a set lasts more than 60 seconds it's primarily endurance work. Why? Because any load that allows you to go this long is depending heavily on slow twitch fibers, which take a minimum of 60(approximately) seconds to fatigue. Your energy systems look like this: You've got enough pure ATP stored for 2-3 seconds of work. That's the most powerful source of energy, straight ATP. You don't have to wait for biological processes to kick in, and the advantage is that you have all the ATP you need. Once you rely on the creatine phosphate system, which kicks in at that 2-3 second mark and lasts to 15-30 seconds depending on how well trained and supplemented the individual is, you have the limit of biology. ATP can only be produced at a certain rate with each energy system. That limits the power output each system can provide. After that 15-30 second mark glycolysis kicks in. That's when you start burning sugar. That lasts to around the 1 minute mark in most people, after which the body has to start burning oxygen. At that point you're talking about aerobic respiration, which is the realm of endurance.

The second factor, fiber recruitment, is different. It's not based on time, but rather on loads. The body always tries to use the minimum necessary amount of muscle fibers, and always calls on the weakest ones first, because it tries to conserve energy as much as possible. Slow twitch fibers are "weaker" than other classifications because they process energy at a slower rate. So if the load you are using only requires those slow twitch fibers to handle it, only the slow twitch fibers will work. Loads that only allow 3-5 reps typically keep you well within the creatine phosphate system's range. That's why when you start using slower repetitions you can not do as many reps with the same weight. You start working different energy systems. If a load is light enough to allow you to reach the glycolysis stage, around 20-30 seconds in set length, you are not working pure strength. You're working for some sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, because as you deplete glycogen stores your body says holy CRAP batman, I need more room to store glycogen. And so you start ballooning. That's why bodybuilders typically like higher rep ranges, like 8-14 reps for upper body and 12-20 for lower body. Weightlifters, gymnasts, Olympic lifters, and anyone else who is looking for maximum strength or power is going to be most interested in the 5 or less rep range, because that is where the body is stimulated to get STRONGER by adding new contractile proteins, as opposed to just bigger so it can store more sugar."

"The long rest is to allow ATP/Creatine Phosphate regeneration. This is only of primary importance when working in the strength range: 3-5 reps, 10-30 seconds(maximum, for a highly conditioned strength athlete, for many people this starts off at 20 seconds max).

What do you mean by full recovery? In terms of creatine regeneration between sets, it allows as much as is possible. In terms of from one workout to the next, that's purely determined by your nutrition and your rest. By nature, integrated training tends to take longer per set, which means it's better suited for strength-endurance rather than maximal strength. It should be one of the cycles everyone who wants to build strength should go through. Integrated training can still be very focused on maximal strength work, but not to quite the same degree as single focused sets.

Don't overthink things, all you need to do is remember that if you're primarily working maximal strength, even if you cross into the strength endurance zone a little bit in the process, that you're going to need to rest more between sets. It's really that simple. To avoid wasting time, you can do one or two sets of other exercises that are using different muscle groups while you rest. This will require slightly more rest between set #1 and set # 2 of a particular exercise, but it cuts down on the total workout time, because 3 sets of 3 exercises is taking 15 minutes intstead of 40 or 45 minutes. "

"Low reps (1-5) are used to develop strength and power, and this type of training requires longer rest periods.

Why the longer rests? Because when you can only do 5-6 reps, assuming your total set is less than 20-30 seconds, so if you're 2 seconds up and 2 seconds down or faster on each rep then you're inside that timeframe, then you are burning the small amount of ATP stored in your muscles and exhausting the available creatine phosphate system. It takes 3-5 minutes, sometimes longer, for your body to get rid of the metabolites, make and store more raw atp in the muscle, and replenish the available creatine phosphate.

Since you are only resting for less than a minute, you are preventing your muscles from rebuilding the energy they need to do 5 reps on your later sets. This will slow down your strength gains. That doesn't mean you're wasting your time, all it means is that the short rests you are taking are preventing you from working at your potential, which in turn is keeping you from making the most progress in your strength development."

"Rest time and rep range are both crucial. The rep range is important because it should be determined by ability, and if you are doing 5 reps of tuck planche push ups, for example, because you can't do 7, and your set is lasting around 20 seconds then you're depending on the muscle fibers that generate the most force. This force production is accomplished by using the creatine to generate ATP. This system is the fastest at generating ATP, which means it gives the most fuel per second. This means it lets you do the most work. Unfortunately you only have enough for 15-20s of work, along with 2-4 seconds of actual ATP that gets burned before the creatine is used to replace it. When your muscles run out of readily available creatine phosphate, you have reached failure. Over time this energy system becomes better developed, and your body creates more actin and myosin proteins inside the muscle that use ATP, and you're able to do more reps. When you have developed so many actin/myosin proteins that you can do more than 5-6 reps, you are adapting in a new way. NOW your body starts developing the ability to produce the same amount of force with ATP from glycolysis, which is the burning of sugar in the muscle. This generates ATP slower, and only lasts for another 20-30 seconds. That's why you'll find that you can do more reps if you move faster. If you measure by the clock, you'll see that your time working doesn't actually change much under a given load. You poop out when you use up whatever energy source your body is depending on for that level of exertion. For pure strength, you're never going to make it all the way through glycolysis, and usually you're not even going to get into it.

The rest is important for a related, but different reason. The rest has nothing to do with how many reps you do. It is based off of which energy system you want your body to be working off of. For pure strength and power, you want your body to work off of ATP and creatine phosphate because it provides the most energy per second. Depending on how efficient your body is and how hard your set was, it could take as little as 3-4 minutes or as much as 10 minutes to completely replenish the creatine in the muscles you just used. If you don't take the rest you need, it's like driving on an empty tank. You run out of gas! Always make sure your tank is full, so to speak. It will take some experience, but after a month you'll pretty much know exactly how long you have to rest when working on pure strength. The exact times are different for everyone and sometimes different for each exercise.

Your rest periods do not determine what effect you will get. The emphasis of your work sets will determine how long your rest periods have to be. Doing pulls during the rest between pushes is good. Push, 2 min, pull, 2 min, repeat 4x is a good way to pair exercises for strength.

If you're going for mixed strength and hypertrophy(kind of a misnomer, since strength development is really a different type of hypertrophy) then you're going to want to be in the 30-50s work set range. That means 6-12 reps, depending on your pace. at 2120, that's 5 seconds per rep. That means you'd want 6-10 reps. You'd start with something you could do 6 times at that pace and you'd stay there until you can do 4-5 sets of 10 reps. Then you're ready to move on to the next progression. You're going to be looking at 90s-3minutes of rest. Probably closer to 3 minutes at first. If you need more, take more. Taking MORE rest will NOT hurt you when it comes to strength and size. I know there are some people here who will say, and not incorrectly, that there is more to this statement, but I'm keeping it simple. You want to go into consolidation training, go for it. I don't want to deal with it right now. This is the basic principle for the hypertrophy + strength."

"My point was that if you are doing sets of 30 reps, resting for 7 minutes will not magically make you get stronger. By nature, you are doing endurance work. That's just how it is. Therefore you use the rest period that suits that work. The nature of the work determines what rest periods you should use.

If you try and do 5x3 of PPP and use 45s rests you are not magically going to get better endurance. You are working so hard, and your sets are so short that you never enter glycolysis or aerobic respiration, and that means that you are not even beginning to tax the energy systems that fuel endurance efforts. Because you are not using these energy systems, you are not going to get a training effect in them. What is happening here is that you are not getting the most out of your strength sets. Why? BECAUSE YOU AREN'T RESTING LONG ENOUGH FOR THE ATP and CP TO REGENERATE!!! When you are relying on a particular energy system for fuel, you have to rest long enough for that system to replenish itself. Otherwise you aren't going to be able to do as much work, which means you're not going to get as strong of a training effect. The training effect is the adaptation you're trying to get from your workout. Strength, speed, endurance, etc. You figure out what energy systems you are relying on, and you rest long enough for the slowest one to regenerate. For strength sets, you're only relying on ATP/CP so you should be working with 3-5+ min rests. Strength-hypertrophy mix is still going to get 3-5 minutes, because even though you are delving into glycolysis a little bit, you're mainly relying on ATP/CP, which takes longer to regenerate. If you're doing pure hypertrophy, which is in the 40-50 seconds range, you're not going to need to rest quite as long because you aren't completely relying the ATP/CP system. You aren't functioning at maximum output, so the rate of energy production from sugar can sustain the efforts until waste products build up to the point where they can't be processed fast enough to keep the energy flowing. In this case, you're letting your body flush waste products. That's the main purpose of the rest, not replenishing ATP. The resistance used for this type of set is lower than strength, and because of that you don't need your ATP/CP system to be completely restored. Sugar can handle it. It takes a fairly long time to deplete muscle sugar compared to ATP/CP, longer than a size oriented workout will take for each muscle group if done properly.

Is what I said clearer now? The goal you are shooting for is what will determine your rest times. Your rest times DO NOT CAUSE THE TRAINING EFFECT! They will ONLY affect the quality of your work and the efficiency of your training advancement. It is important to understand what is the cause and what is the effect. The rest period is the effect, which is caused by the training intensity."

"If you look at a bodybuilder's workout, and compare it to a powerlifter or olympic lifter's workout, you'll see some noticeable differences in structure. Most bodybuilders like to move slow, and to feel the burn. They like to start moving past glycolysis and into aerobic respiration if possible. You will see extremely high volume overall, but low intensity. For example, with upper body exercises you will see sets of 8-14 for upper body work, and 15-20+ for a lot of lower body work. Many bodybuilding protocols demand a specific pace be held, like 2-4 seconds concentric, a one or two second hold, and a 2-7 second eccentric. That's one rep. So one rep could take from 5-11 seconds. They do this because this targets lower threshold fibers, and apparently these have the most growth potential, but they do not have the most power generation. This is why most bodybuilders are weak for their size compared to strength athletes. Even the ones who are really strong like Ronnie Coleman are 340 lbs at their strongest, far beyond what smaller men in the powerlifting world often weigh with similar lifts.

Powerlifters do a variety of work, but the largest difference is a focus on lower rep ranges. You'll rarely see more than 6 reps, and while some programs move through TUT cycles and speed cycles, you never really seem them move past 30s of work, because that's when you are starting to train less powerful muscle fibers moreso than your most powerful fibers. This is why you will sometimes see guys who are 5-6 and 140 lbs benching like 350+. Some of that is genetics, and the rest is them training to be strong, not to be big. They still look big and strong, but they don't look out of proportion to their frame, which can be said for gymnasts also. By contrast, pretty much ALL pro bodybuilders look too big for their frame. You look at them and can't help but think that there is just too much meat on them for their level of strength."

OK...all that above is quoted from slizzardman from various posts on here and I thought it would be useful not only to preface my question, but also just for a plethora of knowledge thrown into one pool of a post if you will.

So from what I gather the TUT principle states that the time it takes you to complete a work set dictates what energy system you are using..i.e. strength, hypertrophy, or endurance. I realize the exacts change from person to person and sometimes depending on the exercise in question, but I just wanted to know where volume came in.

For example 10x3(10 sets of 3 reps) is often cited as a mass building template(even mentioned in BtGB). However this would be in the strength system in reference to TUT(unless you are doing very long rep times).

Thoughts, science, waste of a post. Let me know .

[Quick Start Test Smith]

I did not read the 500 paragraphs quoting Sliz and, for that matter neither is anyone else with a life.

That... that hurts. I do too have a life... :x

TANS-

Thanks for taking the time to compile those posts! I bookmark a lot of the things I read here with very specific titles so I can come back a read them again later. I even make notes in my training program reminding myself, once I get to a particular level of strength/conditioning, to return to a post and re-read it!

I can't answer your question regarding the 10x3 set/rep scheme for size, though. That seems a little backwards, since I've always seen the 3x10 set/rep scheme boasted as a great size developer. I was surprised to hear that Coach wrote that in BtGB. What page is it on? :?

[Josh Schmitter]

I did not read the 500 paragraphs quoting Sliz and, for that matter neither is anyone else with a life.

Well...thanks for not really answering my question and stating that probably 2/3 of this forum has no life .

TANS-

Thanks for taking the time to compile those posts! I bookmark a lot of the things I read here with very specific titles so I can come back a read them again later. I even make notes in my training program reminding myself, once I get to a particular level of strength/conditioning, to return to a post and re-read it!

I can't answer your question regarding the 10x3 set/rep scheme for size, though. That seems a little backwards, since I've always seen the 3x10 set/rep scheme boasted as a great size developer. I was surprised to hear that Coach wrote that in BtGB. What page is it on? :?

No problem, I thought it might be useful to someone else other than me. As far as the 10x3 it's in the programming section, pg. 175ish I think.

"If after all of the above, additional hypertrophy is still required for an exceptionally slim athlete to be able to perform adequately, a template of 10x3 work sets done every two minutes or a pyramid structure of 12,10,8,6 reps with increasing training loads as the repetitions decrease will usually resolve the issue"

I know volume has to play some part, I just am not sure if it is as structured/studied as the TUT principles are...or if it is something like, "just up the volume for more hypertrophy."

[Svend]

Increasing volume is obviously a way of increasing TUT. The 10x3 template doesn't increase TUT in a single set but in total.

[Josh Schmitter]

Increasing volume is obviously a way of increasing TUT. The 10x3 template doesn't increase TUT in a single set but in total.

Yes indeed, however when doing your sets in the strength time range for TUT, as there is no mention of volume, it is implied(to me at least) that as long as you stay within that time frame during sets, you will always be working with your "strength energy system."

I guess I'm trying to get some kind of good argument as to why the extra volume, in a 10x3 for example, pushes you out of your strength system, and more into hypertrophy when you are clearly within strength TUT times for the sets.

Thanks for keeping the topic alive so far .

[griffdrc]

I guess I'm trying to get some kind of good argument as to why the extra volume, in a 10x3 for example, pushes you out of your strength system, and more into hypertrophy when you are clearly within strength TUT times for the sets.

Generally speaking... work volume is positively correlated with hypertrophy...

Strength and hypertrophy are not independant of one another.... Cross-sectional area (CSA) is positively correlated with strength.

For the average person...

During the first ~8 weeks gains are primary due to neurological adaptations... you learn to do the movement more efficiently. After that, progress generally slows and the resulting gains are more physiological.

If you are looking for mechanisms... take some science classes, read a text book, search pubmed...

Sorry if my answer is a little disconnected... I am tired and need to take a nap. Hope it helped.

[Joshua Naterman]

Jeff's right, I write a lot.

10% is a generous number, and definitely ok for hypertrophy and general strength and/or power work. If you are looking for absolute maximum development, like say you're a high school track athlete who's going to state finals, you stop when you drop 5% from your average expected output. Example: You're lifting, and doing heavy triples on squats or deadlifts. Each lift in each set should be timed. Your first working set will serve as a baseline. The average time will be your workout guideline for that day. You do not drop weight, you simply keep doing sets until two reps in a row are 5% or more slower than that average guideline time. That's when you stop for the day.

10% is a lot more reasonable and easier to do, and for anyone who isn't competing in national level competition or something like that it should be plenty fine.

TUT is part of the picture, because TUT will determine what energy systems you are primarily dependent on and THAT will determine how heavy you can go.

Actual speed of execution is very, very important for an explosive sport or explosive performance.

Griff is right that CSA positively correlates with strength, but there is more to it than that. Duration of tension is massively important, because that is what actually determines how much size you need. This is why top olympic lifters can produce forces far, far, far beyond what any other athlete can produce (without the aid of gravity and a long drop) without being ridiculously large.

Want proof? Read about plastic deformation. If you manage to talk to an expert, or even just read about rope testing procedures, here is what you will find: A load that would tear the rope in 10 seconds can be held for 1-2 seconds a nearly infinite number of times (with appropriate "rest" times to allow the internal structures of the rope to return to their original state) without permanently damaging the rope.

This is why volume plays a very large role in how big you get, and why programs like the WODs tend to produce athletes with very high strength to weight rations and a moderate amount of hypertrophy. This is also why doing 10+ sets of 3 reps(using around a 6 rep max weight or variation) with 1 minute rests or less leads to almost steroid-like growth.

Why? the internal structures have a certain amount of built-in stretch that can be handled without causing a permanent change in structure (strain). There is a threshold load, below which no amount of time will cause strain. The farther above that you go, the less time you have before strain occurs. That, my friends, is a volume/intensity relationship.

You will see programs with this element in Eric Cressey's 16 weeks to max strength book, in old school strongman training, and in the programs of trainers who know how to get results out of people without tons of supplements.

It is NOT the only way, but it tends to be what you get the best results from.

[Josh Schmitter]

Sorry if my answer is a little disconnected... I am tired and need to take a nap. Hope it helped.

Ha, not at all...have you seen some of the posts on here . Thanks for taking the time, and bringing some useful(to me anyway) information on top of that.

TUT is part of the picture, because TUT will determine what energy systems you are primarily dependent on and THAT will determine how heavy you can go.

This is one of the simple connections I was just not consciously making: TUT dictates your 1RM or % thereof, which in turn dictates what weight/variation to use.

Want proof? Read about plastic deformation. If you manage to talk to an expert, or even just read about rope testing procedures, here is what you will find: A load that would tear the rope in 10 seconds can be held for 1-2 seconds a nearly infinite number of times (with appropriate "rest" times to allow the internal structures of the rope to return to their original state) without permanently damaging the rope.

That is super interesting/awesome.

This is also why doing 10+ sets of 3 reps(using around a 6 rep max weight or variation) with 1 minute rests or less leads to almost steroid-like growth.

So, if you were to do a 10x3 using more of a 70-80% max(i.e. strength), with longer rest times, would this lead to less size?

Many thanks for chiming in Slizzardman.

[bodyguard]

So, if you were to do a 10x3 using more of a 70-80% max(i.e. strength), with longer rest times, would this lead to less size?

Many thanks for chiming in Slizzardman.

I am still curious to hear more about this question

[Joshua Naterman]

Yes, it would lead to less size increase because you would be using fewer muscle fibers and therefore training a smaller portion of the muscle. % isn't as important as a 6 rep max. The more efficient your CNS is the farther off those calculations will become. Your 1RM will be way higher than the math will tell you, which can lead you to go too heavy. You can't screw up if you actually find your 6RM and just do sets of 3 reps with that.

[Nic Branson]

Late joining this thread. Good stuff here. High set, low reps...good stuff, amazing results when used properly.

[Josh Schmitter]

Yes, it would lead to less size increase because you would be using fewer muscle fibers and therefore training a smaller portion of the muscle. % isn't as important as a 6 rep max. The more efficient your CNS is the farther off those calculations will become. Your 1RM will be way higher than the math will tell you, which can lead you to go too heavy. You can't screw up if you actually find your 6RM and just do sets of 3 reps with that.

Good stuff indeed, you can't go wrong when Slizz graces a post.

So for semantics/exactness sake, you're saying a 4/5 rep max would be more accurate, instead of 70-80% of 1RM?

Also am I correct in stating that the closer you go to your 1RM(or just harder in general), the fewer muscle fibers are used...and if so this is why using a 6RM and doing 1/2 of it would lead to more growth than 3 reps of your 4/5RM? In that same realm, what would be the effect of doing 3 reps of your 8 or 10RM...more endurance system and less strength/hypertrophy?

Or am I just getting this all turned around in my head...

[EastWind]

So, a conclusion could be:

• stay in the 1-20s (strength) or 20-40s (strength + myofibrillar hypertrophy) range

• use 90% of your max load, not less, not more

• do 5 reps / set (one or two exercices, as long as we stay in the right timeframe: 1-20s or 20-40s)

• take 3-5 minutes to rest between the 1-20s or 20-40s sets, to allow ATP/CP to regenerate (glycolisis based ATP it not good for pure strength)?

[Nic Branson]

Yes, it would lead to less size increase because you would be using fewer muscle fibers and therefore training a smaller portion of the muscle. % isn't as important as a 6 rep max. The more efficient your CNS is the farther off those calculations will become. Your 1RM will be way higher than the math will tell you, which can lead you to go too heavy. You can't screw up if you actually find your 6RM and just do sets of 3 reps with that.

Good stuff indeed, you can't go wrong when Slizz graces a post.

So for semantics/exactness sake, you're saying a 4/5 rep max would be more accurate, instead of 70-80% of 1RM?

Also am I correct in stating that the closer you go to your 1RM(or just harder in general), the fewer muscle fibers are used...and if so this is why using a 6RM and doing 1/2 of it would lead to more growth than 3 reps of your 4/5RM? In that same realm, what would be the effect of doing 3 reps of your 8 or 10RM...more endurance system and less strength/hypertrophy?

Or am I just getting this all turned around in my head...

Percentage of 1RM is highly dependent on the individuals level of training and neural efficiency. Basically it gets complicated and unreliable. Easiest method is go for 5-6 rep max for your test. 1RM vs. 6RM focuses different muscle fibers and causes different levels of protein degradation. Overall muscle damage will be greater with the 6RM then the 1RM. Not going to explain the details unless you want them, lots going on. The level of damage done (increased TuT) leads to more compensation of the muscle tissue and more growth. This rep range also causes a different hormonal response compared to 1RM.

Using 3 reps of 8-10 would be good for practice and recovery. Do not under estimate the value of a "light" training session when your body is broken down. It also maintains some neural learning and efficiency. Not going on with that, other than saying do not get dragged into thinking that the nervous systems works the same with a light weight as it does a heavy one.

[Joshua Naterman]

Yes, it would lead to less size increase because you would be using fewer muscle fibers and therefore training a smaller portion of the muscle. % isn't as important as a 6 rep max. The more efficient your CNS is the farther off those calculations will become. Your 1RM will be way higher than the math will tell you, which can lead you to go too heavy. You can't screw up if you actually find your 6RM and just do sets of 3 reps with that.

Good stuff indeed, you can't go wrong when Slizz graces a post.

So for semantics/exactness sake, you're saying a 4/5 rep max would be more accurate, instead of 70-80% of 1RM?

Also am I correct in stating that the closer you go to your 1RM(or just harder in general), the fewer muscle fibers are used...and if so this is why using a 6RM and doing 1/2 of it would lead to more growth than 3 reps of your 4/5RM? In that same realm, what would be the effect of doing 3 reps of your 8 or 10RM...more endurance system and less strength/hypertrophy?

Or am I just getting this all turned around in my head...

Man, great post!

Just to clear this up, the more weight you lift the more muscle fibers are used. That's part of why strength carries over to endurance far more than endurance carries over to strength. When you're lifting your 1RM, for example, you are using every single muscle fiber that you use when you are doing 3 sets of 12 reps plus a whole bunch more.

That's the basics there. 3 reps of 8-10 RM would almost be recovery work, you'd only want to do like 2 sets of that at the most. It's like Canthar said, on off days it is a great idea to take a very light weight, like something you can do 20 times, and just do one or two sets of like 7 reps. There is virtually no added fatigue or damage, but you re-stimulate the healing process in that muscle group AND if you are using the same exercise you will be training your body to become more efficient in that motion.

If that's too complicated, don't worry about it!

Percentage of 1RM is highly dependent on the individuals level of training and neural efficiency. Basically it gets complicated and unreliable. Easiest method is go for 5-6 rep max for your test. 1RM vs. 6RM focuses different muscle fibers and causes different levels of protein degradation. Overall muscle damage will be greater with the 6RM then the 1RM. Not going to explain the details unless you want them, lots going on. The level of damage done (increased TuT) leads to more compensation of the muscle tissue and more growth. This rep range also causes a different hormonal response compared to 1RM.

Using 3 reps of 8-10 would be good for practice and recovery. Do not under estimate the value of a "light" training session when your body is broken down. It also maintains some neural learning and efficiency. Not going on with that, other than saying do not get dragged into thinking that the nervous systems works the same with a light weight as it does a heavy one.

[Nic Branson]

So, a conclusion could be:

• stay in the 1-20s (strength) or 20-40s (strength + myofibrillar hypertrophy) range

• use 90% of your max load, not less, not more

• do 5 reps / set (one or two exercices, as long as we stay in the right timeframe: 1-20s or 20-40s)

• take 3-5 minutes to rest between the 1-20s or 20-40s sets, to allow ATP/CP to regenerate (glycolisis based ATP it not good for pure strength)?

What are your individual goals is the main question.

90% max load for an experienced lifter is huge and well beyond what most train with on a regular basis. Also do not use an in competition lift to base your training percentages off of if you use 1rm numbers.

The 5x5 you mention there is not concrete. Depends on goal and the movement / tempo.

Rest time....Rest time is HUGE in regards to both hormonal and neural response. It is the most overlooked and one of the most important / powerful tools you have. Now question time you mention 1-20s are we training for power or strength here? That will effect rest.

[bodyguard]

You can also do one set of your 6 RM but 5 reps. Wait around 30 seconds, do 2 or 3 reps. not going to failure.

Wait again 30 seconds and again 2 or 3 reps if possible do 4. Make 4 or 5 sets. This is called Myo reps and give also a lot of hypo.

[EastWind]

What are your individual goals is the main question.

90% max load for an experienced lifter is huge and well beyond what most train with on a regular basis. Also do not use an in competition lift to base your training percentages off of if you use 1rm numbers.

The 5x5 you mention there is not concrete. Depends on goal and the movement / tempo.

Rest time....Rest time is HUGE in regards to both hormonal and neural response. It is the most overlooked and one of the most important / powerful tools you have. Now question time you mention 1-20s are we training for power or strength here? That will effect rest.

Isn't incorporating both power and strength training into cycles leading to enhancements in the performance?

Really, I am not sure what I need most for now, if it is a) or b) or both.

Right now, as far as I understand, I am doing strength workouts, but I would like to know if they are correct. I've never worked with that short numbers in reps/sets and high numbers in rest. So this is kinda new to me.

From what I've read, the two types of training can be simply described like this:

Power training

--

Exercise interval: 1-20s

Load: 50%-60% of 1RM, high tempo

Sets/reps: 3 to 5/3 to 5

Rest: 3 minutes

Strength training (myofibrillar hypertrophy): 20-40s

--

Exercise interval: 20-40s

Load: 90+% of 1RM, slow tempo

Sets/reps: 3 to 5/3 to 5

Rest: 3 minutes

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thank you.

UPDATE:

Assuming that I'm doing a strength training (20-40s range) and I got four exercices for a workout:

• Wall planche push-ups (10 sets of 3 reps)

• Weighted Chin L-sit pull-ups (10 sets of 3 reps with 6RM)

• Hanging leg raises (straddle) (10 sets of 3 reps)

• RLLs (10 sets of 5 reps)

The question is: how much should I rest between giant sets (pushup + pullup + hlr + rll), assuming no rest in taken between exercices (only what is required to switch stances).

[Michael Miskelly]

This is also why doing 10+ sets of 3 reps(using around a 6 rep max weight or variation) with 1 minute rests or less leads to almost steroid-like growth.

Does rest in this sense relate to a full break from exercise or could you do a seperate movement during that rest with a different muscle group as your rest? E.g could you be doing say bodyweight bicep curls on the rings and then in your 1 min rest from this be doing dips at 3 reps of your 6 rep max and so on?

[Nic Branson]

What are your individual goals is the main question.

90% max load for an experienced lifter is huge and well beyond what most train with on a regular basis. Also do not use an in competition lift to base your training percentages off of if you use 1rm numbers.

The 5x5 you mention there is not concrete. Depends on goal and the movement / tempo.

Rest time....Rest time is HUGE in regards to both hormonal and neural response. It is the most overlooked and one of the most important / powerful tools you have. Now question time you mention 1-20s are we training for power or strength here? That will effect rest.

Isn't incorporating both power and strength training into cycles leading to enhancements in the performance?

Really, I am not sure what I need most for now, if it is a) or b) or both.

Right now, as far as I understand, I am doing strength workouts, but I would like to know if they are correct. I've never worked with that short numbers in reps/sets and high numbers in rest. So this is kinda new to me.

From what I've read, the two types of training can be simply described like this:

Power training

--

Exercise interval: 1-20s

Load: 50%-60% of 1RM, high tempo

Sets/reps: 3 to 5/3 to 5

Rest: 3 minutes

Strength training (myofibrillar hypertrophy): 20-40s

--

Exercise interval: 20-40s

Load: 90+% of 1RM, slow tempo

Sets/reps: 3 to 5/3 to 5

Rest: 3 minutes

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thank you.

UPDATE:

Assuming that I'm doing a strength training (20-40s range) and I got four exercices for a workout:

• Wall planche push-ups (10 sets of 3 reps)

• Weighted Chin L-sit pull-ups (10 sets of 3 reps with 6RM)

• Hanging leg raises (straddle) (10 sets of 3 reps)

• RLLs (10 sets of 5 reps)

The question is: how much should I rest between giant sets (pushup + pullup + hlr + rll), assuming no rest in taken between exercices (only what is required to switch stances).

You have a couple options here. You could work with 1min rest breaks which would bring in some more hormone stimulation and growth. The other option is 2-3minute breaks which would allow an increase in the loading for greater strength gains. You do not have to focus on one or the other. You could use one rest protocol during the first 2 weeks for instance then the third and fourth week use the other.

[Nic Branson]

This is also why doing 10+ sets of 3 reps(using around a 6 rep max weight or variation) with 1 minute rests or less leads to almost steroid-like growth.

Does rest in this sense relate to a full break from exercise or could you do a seperate movement during that rest with a different muscle group as your rest? E.g could you be doing say bodyweight bicep curls on the rings and then in your 1 min rest from this be doing dips at 3 reps of your 6 rep max and so on?

Question has varying answers and opinions. In your example you have to consider that especially if done on rings the biceps are still quite involved in the dip movement.

Back to the question, in that example during that one minute I would use no other movement for the athlete. That one min is about recovering as best you can, keep moving yes, but not stressful at all. By the end of those sets if you did it right your CNS will be screaming at you.

[EastWind]

You have a couple options here. You could work with 1min rest breaks which would bring in some more hormone stimulation and growth. The other option is 2-3minute breaks which would allow an increase in the loading for greater strength gains. You do not have to focus on one or the other. You could use one rest protocol during the first 2 weeks for instance then the third and fourth week use the other.

Thank you, that was very, very helpful. Yes, I will be definitely switching rest protocols and also the loads and tempo, I don't want the body to get used to only one type of training.

[Joshua Naterman]

The percentage of max load used in power training is somewhat subjective. The goal is to use the heaviest load that does not noticeably slow you down during the movement. The one exception to this would be a power clean or power snatch, but that's a special case. The reason for the exception is that the most explosive part of the lift is in a very, very high leverage position. You have to go with 50-60% of your max load THERE if you were to go by hard and fast numbers, which will require the partial ROM max out.

A more practical consideration is simply this: do you notice a slight slowdown? If so, that is the absolute maximum weight you should be using for "rate of force development" work. This is the speed part of the power equation. Max strength work would be the other side.

To know what you need the most work on, simply compare the amount of training you have done for strength with what you have done for speed, and figure out where you have the most room for improvement. That's subjective, but it is fair to say that if you are a bench presser and you are benching 2x your bodyweight but have never done speed bench work then you will probably gain a lot more power by focusing more on that speed work than by improving your max strength. That goes for squats, deadlifts, power cleans, etc.

[Mark O'Shea]

Regarding rep tempo under the 10 x 3 set/rep guideline, what rep speed would be used to maximize growth (i.e., size) under this type of workout plan? Understanding that it is 3 reps of a 6 rep max would it follow a moderate speed (3 - 6 sec. per rep keeping the total under 20 seconds) or a slower speed (between 20 - 40 sec.)? The latter just seems wrong.

[Joshua Naterman]

You will use whatever tempo your 6 rep max was performed with.