foundation strength - next step?

[quad6]

I read in a post here that you should be able to at least do 10 chin-ups, 10 pull-ups and 10 dips before attempting to work through any of the gymnastic progressions.

So I've been swimming/jogging/working out, trying to build this foundation along with playing on my rings just because it's fun.

It's taken a long time for me to get to:

- 10 chin-ups, 10 dips and 4 pull-ups on a bar.

- 8 dips on rings

- 4 inverted hang rows on rings

- tuck planche on floor 30s

- skin the cats, not close to a back lever yet

My goal remains a vain one - muscle mass, an athletic body and to be able to do cool stuff on the rings.

My problem is that I can't stick to any rigid routine or programme very well. I do ok with goals but my workouts are a bit random and will likely stay that way, though I realise this limits my progress.

1. Would anyone care to suggest some specific goals that might be a good next step in my case? i.e. am I best going all out for a back lever or should I just continue what I'm doing until I can do more pullups and am further along with the planche?

2. I'm tempted to add weight to my dips and chins because I believe I'll get muscle increases. Is this wise?

Thanks

[Blairbob]

Given your nature, I would try to at least plan workouts for the week. 3 or 4 workouts per week. Change them the next.

[swarovski]

cool that I can help a kiwi.

I recently learned MU so I can tell you what worked for me.

First I lost some weight, if your bodyfat is above 15% I believe you're making rings progress much harder and slower. I'm now around 10% BF.

second I performed FBE in a 5*5 schema. I believe beginners need an high volume strength work (and you'll get that muscle increase as well).

third I worked alot on core strength.

on adding weights:

http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2010/3/th ... -training/

"

The brief summary is that force is force. Thus, if we can apply the correct stress to the muscles through various exercises we can see increases in both strength and mass.

Rather than increasing weights or adding weight to the body, gymnastics and other bodyweight sports provide structured progressions through which the stimulus on the muscles can be increased without increases in body mass. This is done through decreasing leverage

"

to answer your points:

1. I might suggest this: hang from rings, lift your legs to hang l-sit, pull your straight legs to inverted hang (piked pull), lower as slowly as you can to german hang (keep those legs straight), relax your shoulders and open hips, now reverse the sequence pulling out from german hang and piking just as little as you need.

or better choose a basic skill you like to set as a goal from this list: http://www.drillsandskills.com/skills/Rings/

2. don't do it, you'll miss many benefits, read that bodyweight article and give some variety to your training, jacknife pushups, archer pushups, flyes, curls, row, pushups, pelicans, muscleup transitions and so much more, lower rings, kneel yourself to support on your arms just as much weight you can stand to perform the exercise with good form but be sure to make it challenging enough.

here's some of the possibilities:

http://www.drillsandskills.com/article/17

above all, have fun.

[Joshua Naterman]

Have fun. You can create an enormous amount of useful variety with your bent arm work, but try and stay consistent with ring supports, back lever work and planche work if you want to have cool straight arm moves down the line!

For maximal strength training you can and should cycle through weighted dips, weighted pull ups, weighted push ups (rings and floor or bars), one arm progressions for push ups and pull ups when you are able to, and the various rows and FL pull varieties that are in Coach's book. Same goes for legs and core in regards to squats and sit ups, body levers and HLL.

For your higher rep training the only real staple should be bulgarian rows. Other than that, cycle through ring dips and pb dips, whatever push ups turn you on the day you work out, same for rows and pull up/chin variations, rope climbing if it's available and perhaps rock climbing if you have a gym nearby (concentrate on using your arms a bit more than you should on at least one climb), ab work of your choice, squats and deadlifts (single or double leg), etc. Just keep switching it up if you want, but make sure you are consistent on whatever split you do for a while. If it's an upper body strength day, do that! If it's upper body endurance, do that! Hit the horizontal and vertical pulls and presses.

That wasn't meant to be a comprehensive list, just a detailed example. Like the others said, have fun! When you love what you do you tend to make better progress than if you're just along for the ride.

[quad6]

cool that I can help a kiwi.

Thanks man, yeah I'm actually in Christchurch. Used to hang my rings from an exposed beam in the lounge room. Now, the place is listed for demolition and rebuild. Luckily we have hagley park nearby with metal rings, bars and what not.

Anyway, thanks to both of you for the advice. I should say that I never actually miss training - I'm not random in that sense. I just find that I don't seem to work well when I have a too finely planned routine.

So I think I'll shoot for something in between, keep mixing it up but be consistent with certain things and make sure I'm working toward specifc goals.

Like my big next targets are to get a muscle up and a back lever. So I'll continue working the BL tuck, my pull-ups, false grip, xr dips and the support hold. I don't always work the tuck planche because it hits my wrist pretty hard (I have hypermobily there) - hopefully that won't limit my progress too much.

[swarovski]

you're welcome anytime, I spent a year down under improving my rugby, it was awesome. here's where my legacy to nz come from...

yep, they even moved rwc matches out of chch, it says a lot on your situation.

well, as for MU, you have to work on pullups, dips and TRANSITIONS separately. I didn't train the transition and now even if I can perform stric MU those are so hard on my elbows (during the transition) that I have to avoid the exercise even if I'd like to do it all day long.

In theory BL work shouldn't be a focus until you can do 3*30sec fully extended german hang. Work on this.

wrist prehab and 60sec floor L-sit are also a necessary step before serious PL work.

[quad6]

Will do, thanks for clarifying that swarovski