General questions

[Felix Schreiter]

Hello everyone,

I am just about to finish my first Steady state cycle and have a few questions.

at the moment my weekly schedule looks like this:

Mo

Tue

We SQUATS

Thu TE1

Fri TE2

Sat

Sun TE3, SQUATS

I train 4 FSP on all TEs 1-3 which are Flat tuck FL, Frogstand, German hang and Handstand. I train all of them for a total amount of 60 secs ( like described in the BTGB) in different sets.

after that warm up I usually train

TE1: Pushups on rings 5x5 and rows with elevated feed on rings 5x5 (horizontal pushup&pull day)

TE2: bodyweight curls (from Slizzardmans videos) 5x5 and support position on rongs for 10x6secs

TE3: negative Headstandpushups at the wall for 5x3 and 5x5 pullups

my goal for all these exercises was to be able to do 5x5 high quality repitions and I almost reached that goal after my first SSC.

Now i want to plan my next cyle.

Lets begin with the statics:

I could hardly do any frogstand at the beginning of the cycle( im doing them with my fingers pointing to the back) and now my longest tries are like 7secs. until now I just did 10 repititions trying to do the FS as long as possible. SHould i go on like that? I remember that i could do the frogstand with fingers pointing forwards for probably 20secs some months ago whe i tried out training it for like 3 weeks.

But this variation seems to develop much slower, so are there any suggestions to develop this frogstand ?

Moreover the german hang (9x7reps) , and the front lever flat tucks (7x9reps) get easier now, but i want to increase the volume for the next SSC. do you thing thats a good idea? Additionally what should i do for tendonitis and bicep prehab, in my 3rd SSC, because at the moment im just doin german hang for prehab and i will go on to BL tuck then.

What do you think i should do next in TE 1-3? I think of trying pushups on rings but with my fingers pointing backwards to get used to the position for the planche. or should i do these planchepushups on the floor first?

another problem is my tricep training on the TE2. as im to weak to do proper dips on the rings i just started to do a static on that day. i think that is not a good solution so I thought of doing a bodyweihgt tricep curl, just like slizzardman does the bodyweightbicepcurls. what do you think about that=

I do pullups with a wide grip so a probably will do lsitppullups next. just one wquestion: do l sit pullups only develop my core or do i also train my pulling strength harder?

Additionally I want to add a 4th TE where i only do dynamic/explosive strength exercises. I came up with the idea when i saw a video of slizzardman where he shows his explosive pushup variation. do you know any equal exercises for pulling. should i just let me fall from the top position of a pullup and the suddenly pull up again?

by the way iam 1,84m high and my weight is 87kg. i am 17

before BGTB that i worked out in the gym

eg i can benchpress about 90kg if it helps

i hope my post did not go to long

Horst

[Joshua Naterman]

Your best explosive pulling exercise would be explosive pull ups where you just go as high as you can and don't really even catch yourself on the way down, just land on your feet. Obviously this should be learned in stages and will work best on the rings. For plyometric pulling you got it right on the nose: Do explosive pull ups and concentrate more on catching and reversing the motion as fast as possible instead of a slower catch. This is a pretty tough thing to do, you may want to try foot supported versions if you have trouble learning this.

You could do bodyweight triceps extensions but I do not know how relevant they will be. Diamond push ups would be a bit better, and you can weight them if you need to by wearing a vest or using bands across your back. I think that the best thing you could do is to work the dips though, honestly. Your support holds are good and you should keep them, but XR supports should be on a steady state cycle with your FSP if that is possible. If not, that's fine, but you will get your best results by doing those ring supports 3-4x per week for a few sets of 50% max hold time.

[Felix Schreiter]

What benefit do i actually get from doing plyometric pull ups rather than just explosives. or is it just a progressions thing, that i should start with the explosives?

I think i will add the XRsupportposition to my FSP. What is the maximum number of FSPs i should use in a SSC?

another problem is, that i hang my rings on a pullupbar between a door frame. this doorframe is not wide enough to do things like bulgarian push ups properly. so d you think planche pullups are a good thing to do instead?

are there any more suggestions how a day with explosive exercises could look like or are explosive pull and upsh ups enough? should i also do 5x5 sets with them?

at the moment i do wrist pushups and wall extensions for prehab after every workout. are there other fundamental exercises i forgot?

[Joshua Naterman]

Plyometrics load the connective tissue more and train the stretch reflex specifically. They are the best for integrating strength built through maximal and explosive strength work into actual athletic movement.

You are OK with doing all the FSP together, that's what Coach's guys do. You should start with the L sit prerequisites (hollow hold and hollow rocks) and the prerequisites for the other FSP as well, which will make your warm up a bit easier and more productive as well. Personally for frogstand I recommend fingers out and forward or completely sideways, and start pointing them back as you extend your elbows into a straight arm frogstand (advanced frog). The frogstand position is just very hard to balance with fingers backwards, it's not a good position in my opinion.

PPP are a great thing to do if you don't have space for proper bulgarian pushups! Just take your time and don't move your hands too far back at first! Faceplants hurt.

Explosive dips are a great exercise as well, but you have to make sure you don't kip during them. That's kind of advanced too, you don't really need much beyond the explosive push ups and pull ups right now on the explosive side of things. You could look into Ido Portal's Gatherings, which are an explosive HeSPU variation.

[Felix Schreiter]

So are u saying i should do Fl tuck,frogstand,german hang,handstand,ringsupport,hollow hold and hollow rocks + prerequisites for other FSP (What are they?) before every training? because you said that i should keep my FSP and now you suggest also doing the prerequisites. or could you give an example of what warm up you are thinking of?

because more than 7 FSP sounds as if i understood it wrong.

by the way as there were already more than 100 viewers on the threat it would be cool if others members say something, too. i dont want to make slizzardman answer every little stupid question i have^^

[Joshua Naterman]

Pre-requisite work is something that gets covered in depth at the seminars, but the basic deal is that you have no business training straddle L at all until you have a 30s advanced L sit. Same goes for Manna until you have a 30s true straddle L on the floor. You have no business training planche at all until you have a 30-60s L sit.

Those refer to the actual FSP progressions. As you can see, L sit is the foundation. This is because you build a combination of core, shoulder, elbow and wrist strength and stability through this process. You need all of those things to progress in the FSP and this progression guarantees that you are ready.

Coach always says that if you already have, say, a 14s tuck planche or whatever, to maintain that because that is good progress. You would do that with 1-2 7-10s holds per workout, and one 13s hold once a week to maintain the max. The bulk of your work would go into building and maintaining your plank with the body in planche position (body horizontal so feet are elevated) while working on that L sit. FL and L sit share many of the same prerequisites in the beginning, so L sit functions as a sort of pre-requisite for FL as well. Your L sit work will carry over to so much that it is hard for me to remember it all.

However, I would definitely recommend that 1-2x per week you hit a 80-90% hold on whatever FSP progression you are using just so that you are maintaining your current strength. You will probably find that it gets easier as you keep working the pre-reqs, I have a 4-5s full lay FL again just from doing the FL pre-requisites and weighted pull ups.

Maintain your FSP, but put your time into the pre-requisites.

[Felix Schreiter]

sorry but i am a bit confused. you said that L-sit is a prerequisite for almost every FSP. But hollow hold and hollow rocks are prerequisites for l-sit.

so will i work mainly

-hollow hold

-hollow rocks

-plank

-reverse plank

and/or L-sit?

and of the other FSPs i will just do 2 sets of about 60% of max every workout. but will that be enough for handstands?

Sorry that i am a bit slow in getting it..

[Cole Dano]

I think Slizz got the exact pre-reqs confused

L-Sit and Planche follow a similar path in the early stages -

Plank and Rev Plank being the bottom rungs, followed by Parallel Bar Support and Wall Handstand

You do want to build a solid L-before getting too much into the frog stand.

For Front Lever the bottom rungs are Hollow Hold and Hollow Rocks

For Back Lever they are Arch Hold and Arch Rocks.

These are the foundation of everything to come and worth spending some time on at this stage.

[Joshua Naterman]

Yes, what I mean is that ideally you should not be worrying about any of the actual FSP, such as tuck L sit or straddle FL or whatever, until you have worked through the pre-requisite charts.

You should work on pre-requisites for all the FSP, which will end up meaning that you do not do any planche variations until you have that L sit, and you don't do any straddle L variations until you have a solid advanced L, and you don't do any MSH/Manna variations until your straddle L is solid. FL has some slightly different intermediate stuff but hollow hold and hollow rock are the beginning there too.

Handstand is different, you should work your wall handstands like FSP in the beginning. Half max holds until your max is over 60s with extended shoulders and a good body line.

[Seiji]

Hold on, what? You're supposed to have 30s adv L before doing straddle L? I'm not sure if I can hold the adv L but I know i can straddle L for over 40.

Is this a quad strengthening thing or a compression strength thing? Something else?

[Joshua Naterman]

Not everyone is the same. Straddle L is part of the manna progression, and that is how things are laid out. Yes, it is a compression thing mostly. Without BOTH of those abilities you will probably never be able to lift into a manna.

[Cole Dano]

I think for practical purposes, the 60 sec L is the main thing the other floor FSPs branch out from there.

Coach also understands that not everyone is the same so his athlete's have a slightly different progression which leads me to think that if one was more naturally suited to hit the straddle before the advanced it can be ok, they are different branches from the root of the L-sit.

There is also the understanding that many of us have backgrounds that already introduced us to some more advanced elements and never has said you should stop doing them, but just to make sure to also pick up the basics before going on.

Edit: Looks like Slizz and i answered at the same time.

Slizz, the Straddle L has its own tree of progression separate from mana. One is hips back the other hips forward. I've been reviewing this part of the material extensively of late so am pretty firm on this.

However, and this is where is gets confusing, the fx variations are all part of the planche progression, you wind up doing them before the actual tuck planche.

I hope this isn't going too much into the seminar material, but there does seem to be an awful lot of confusion on this.

[Felix Schreiter]

But as i am already able to do more than 20secs max of a BL flat tuck, doesnt that mean that i am more than ready for it and dont need to work on hollowhold and hollow rocks?

[Cole Dano]

I'm kind of a nut about the hollows. They are excellent prep not only for the FL but also HS.

Try the hollow hold and rock, the standard is 60sec / 60 rocks. If its easy then great, even then you can add a little weight, dumbbells, ankle weights. The goal in the hollow is to get so open that your hands and heels touch the floor while the entire back is also pressing into the floor. This is not so easy.

Of course as stated above, you can still do the FL work, just don't neglect this foundational stuff if you haven't gone through it yet.