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ilove2workout28

which one...?

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ilove2workout28

In terms of strength,power and development, which is better... Archer push ups, straight arm flyes or iron cross? I'm just working on beginning the iron cross flyes (idk if this is the name), and my biceps are very sore after about 5 reps with half decent form.

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Gregor

I don't really inderstood you I think...

1. You wan't to achieve iron cross or butterfly cross?

2. Can you do it, Iron cross I meant?

3. If I assumed correctly (sorry If I sounded as a jerk) but I think you don't know anything about basics in gymnastics if aou are asking such things and you wanna do iron cross.

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Joshua Naterman

I'm confused too, OP could you please be more specific? What's your training history and what do you mean by development?

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ilove2workout28

i'm just asking in general, which one develops the body and strength more: archer push ups, straight arm flyes or the iron cross?

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Joshua Naterman

That question has no answer because they are not comparable in those terms.

Iron cross is by far the hardest of those, and archer push ups are the easiest. Ring flyes get harder the more you straighten your arms. Each depends on very different muscle groups and levels of recruitment and is in a different plane of motion and/or has very different demands on the body.

You may as well be asking whether a strawberry milkshake is better than a Jeep Wrangler. There really isn't a good answer to that one either.

But, since you want an answer, Iron Cross for 1000. Highest strength requirement and uses the most upper body muscles. Of course, you can't really use this for muscle building because of the inherently high recovery requirement it has compared to almost anything else you could think of until you are on the level of the international competitors, at least. Even then, you will never be able to do the same volume of IC work as weighted dips or pull ups, so you will not get the same amount of muscle growth, and no amount of either one of those will prepare you to safely perform an Iron Cross.

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ilove2workout28

Thank you all for your input. I've just started working on some IC progression, and my biceps are killing me! I'm not trying to get bigger muscles; muscle size isn't a concern of mine. Im 5'7, 170 lbs. Just want some increase in strength, and a little more size/shape to my chest (its about 41-43 inches.

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Cole Dano

Coach Sommer just reminded us of his preferred progression towards IC.

http://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5889#p52064

Hopefully you will do, or have done, the prep work before trying to go to the actual IC, otherwise there's a good chance your biceps will really be killing you.

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Alex Dienaar
That question has no answer because they are not comparable in those terms.

Iron cross is by far the hardest of those, and archer push ups are the easiest. Ring flyes get harder the more you straighten your arms. Each depends on very different muscle groups and levels of recruitment and is in a different plane of motion and/or has very different demands on the body.

You may as well be asking whether a strawberry milkshake is better than a Jeep Wrangler. There really isn't a good answer to that one either.

Strawberry milkshakes are better! :D

Don't just jump into Iron Cross conditioning, it's a terrible idea. Stick to the basics before you even look at it. If you really really really can't be persuaded to train something else first, train the internal rotators of the shoulder in a straight arm position and do the necessary elbow/straight arm preparation before you work the actual static holds.

Until then work them until the angle you can do unsupported/use elbow strapped Cross variations/a pulley system as your main hold.

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Joshua Naterman
Thank you all for your input. I've just started working on some IC progression, and my biceps are killing me! I'm not trying to get bigger muscles; muscle size isn't a concern of mine. Im 5'7, 170 lbs. Just want some increase in strength, and a little more size/shape to my chest (its about 41-43 inches.

No problem! Please pay attention to what Mr Brady posted, Coach's IC progression is excellent. You wil notice that like Alex said, you are ok to do strap Cross pulls and whatnot, but go through the entire progression before trying to work actual straight arm crosses without straps or anything.

For your chest, weighted (if you are strong enough) dips with a slight planche (slight forward lean, concentrate on using the chest without arching the back) on PB and higher rep XR dips will do the most for your chest development.

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