Success stories with 5 training days PW?

[Longshanks]

I'm condisidering changing my 3 workouts a week to 5 days a week and cutting the volume to accomadate this. I currently get away with 1 warm up set and 4 work sets 3 times a week totalling 15sets. If it change it to a 1 warm up set 2 work sets 5 times a week with the same intensity I was hoping that wouldn't cause overtraining? Have many on this forum tries 5 days a week? Was it better than 3 days a week? Have just finished re-reading Power to the people again and fancied doing the same layout but for my BW exercises. Is higher frequency that much better for strength gains?

[Felipe]

why not 4?

[Longshanks]

why not 4?

Based on a quote from Naked Warrior:

In a German Study, training every other day delivered only 80% of the strength gains of daily training. And working out once a week yielded only 40%.

I'm just curious how much truth there is in it, and if there are people that can speak from experience-that more frequent is better? Four workouts a week is also a possibility I'm considering. I'm just curious what the experienced forum members' opinions are on this.

[ashita]

I workout 4 days a week , if you speak about the upper body days and i have progressed a lot and keep progressing so much....

[Ryan Verma]

I workout at least 6 days a week, sometimes every day, but I'm in pretty good shape and I know what my body can handle. I don't work parts of the body that are recovering, and sometimes I just do an hour and a half of yoga and count that as a workout.

From your post, I'm assuming that you are either a beginner, or you're adding bodyweight static positions to workouts you're already doing. It's tough to say which will work better for you, but I think that if you're looking for strength gains, it won't work well. Only doing 2 heavy sets is not enough to stimulate growth in your muscles in my experience, even if you're doing it 5 days a week. Well, let me rephrase that - I don't think it will build strength, but it will build endurance. If you're very new to this type of bodyweight exercise, there will be a period in the beginning where you will seem to get stronger very quickly, but it's not because you grew muscle tissue or built strength - it's because your nervous system got used to the new combination of muscle movements to hold the unfamiliar positions. Maybe doing sets more often per week will help you get through the nervous system adaptation phase quicker, but I don't think it will build strength in the long run.

Currently, I'm trying a program where I repeat my workout every 3-4 days and I'm having pretty good success with it so far. For example, I'm focusing on 3 specific bodyweight moves (muscle up, planche and front lever). I do my MU workout on day 1, planche on day 2 and front lever on day 3, then repeat, or do a leg/plyometrics/yoga/deadlifting day if I don't feel that my muscles have recovered sufficiently.

Unfortunately, when it comes to overtraining, no one will be able to tell you what will or will not cause it except yourself (except in obvious situations, of course). You have to judge when your muscle tissues are still torn and are repairing from the previous workout. A rule of thumb is that you should never work a muscle that is sore. A few less obvious symptoms of overtraining:

-constantly feeling tired

-lowered intensity in workouts

-moodiness and irritability

-deficiency in the immune system (you get sick easily)

-pain in your joints (could also be due to an actual injury)

I hope something in here was beneficial to you and that I didn't insult your intelligence by any assumptions I made.

[AlexX]

I'm condisidering changing my 3 workouts a week to 5 days a week and cutting the volume to accomadate this. I currently get away with 1 warm up set and 4 work sets 3 times a week totalling 15sets. If it change it to a 1 warm up set 2 work sets 5 times a week with the same intensity I was hoping that wouldn't cause overtraining? Have many on this forum tries 5 days a week? Was it better than 3 days a week? Have just finished re-reading Power to the people again and fancied doing the same layout but for my BW exercises. Is higher frequency that much better for strength gains?

In my opinion this is something you have to experiment with and see what you like/works best for you. There is an inverse relationship with volume, intensity and frequency. Meaning that you can go hard on one or two of them but not all three. But which combination will work better for you no one can say. I know people that have had great results with frequency, others with intensity, and others with volume (concentrating on that aspect in their program). Even old time strongman all trained differently.

Any combination that you can think of in my example has been used with success: Bulgarian method (frequency/intensity approach), Sheiko method (volume approach), Bill Starr,Wendler's 5/3/1, and Tommy Konno's training style (intensity/volume approach). These are just a few examples there a ton of others for each combination.

[Cole Dano]

Good reply Alex.

To round out the answer, there is also the idea of interchanging the relationships between intensity, volume. So you have an accumulation phase with more volume an intensification phase with more load and a deloading phase to avoid overtraining.

[Longshanks]

I guess the whole reason for this question is that my gains are very modest from cycle to cycle, and I'm exploring any possibilities for improvement. Also, because I started strength training whilst riddled with over-training injuries I never got to enjoy the 'beginner gains' phase of training, only about 3-5% per cycle, sometimes less. I know a lot of this is probably due to the awful hours I have to work all over the place meaning my sleeping pattern isn't always brilliant.

At present intensity I know I can get away with 15sets of each exercise a week so I'm guessing if I do the same amount of sets spread over 4-5 days instead of 3 that shouldn't risk over-training.

I'm also starting to consider that with my low capacity to gain strength, the longer SSC's such as 12 weeks might be a better idea than the standard 8 weeks as I might not be getting the deloading phase.

Thanks for the informative posts everyone. Even after a year of reading this forum, it's still easy to feel humbled by the knowledge of its athletes.

[Ryan Verma]

I'm not sure how long you've been working out, but if it's been more than a few months, there are a few things you should remember when trying to determine how your progress is going.

The first is that most people gain strength and muscle at a rate far lower than they think they're capable of. This leads to people setting unrealistic goals and getting discouraged by progress that seems under par. I read somewhere that an average person can reasonably expect to gain 5lbs of pure muscle (10lbs at most depending on genetics) in a year long period, if they have perfect nutrition and sleep. I don't know what that would equate to in terms of strength gains over a single SSC, but considering that, 3-5% increase in strength doesn't seem terribly low.

The second point is on the topic of nutrition and sleep - two of the most overlooked parts of the equation for building strength. You are what you eat, and if you're not eating 4-6 balanced meals a day, your strength gains will be affected.You don't build muscle while you're awake - you build it while you're sleeping. If you're not able to get at least 7 hours of uninterrupted sleep (I have no reference. It's an approximation.) your body will not be able to repair the muscle tissue that was broken down during your workout. Consequently, you'll start your next workout while your body is still trying to recover from the last, cutting your strength gains and leading to possible overtraining. If your sleep cycle is erratic and insufficient, I honestly feel that your workouts and strength gains would be better served by sleep rather than training.

Good luck with your training!

[AlexX]

Remember that most strong people that you see took years to get there not weeks or months. Strength training is a long journey and more often than not slow but steady gains are better than quick sporadic ones with plateaus (in the long run). As long as I got stronger at the end of my cycle I am happy. Dan John a great strength training coach says that for serious strength training trainees progress should be measured from year to year not just cycle to cycle or weeks or months. If I look back back a year I made tremendous gains over that period but it was all thanks to very small gains from cycle to cycle.

It's never a bad idea to look at your sleep and/or nutrition.

[Longshanks]

I'm not sure how long you've been working out, but if it's been more than a few months, there are a few things you should remember when trying to determine how your progress is going.

I discovered this site in August 2009 at which point I was so riddled with injuries all I could do where really easy isometrics such as plank, headstand and gripping a pull-up bar. I was able to start negatives in June 2010 and i was only able to start dynamic exercises such as raised push-ups, rows and slightly weighted squats in the last few months. It's been a very slow process for me so far so just wanted see if I'd missed anything. I do eat regularly a high protein diet with quite a bit of fresh meat, vegetables and fruit, also protein shakes PWO and before bed. I do get 8-9 hours sleep about 3 out of 4 weeks a month but I have to work nights for a week once a month at which time I get maybe 5-6hours at best. So maybe cutting my training on those weeks to half volume might be a good idea?

The first is that most people gain strength and muscle at a rate far lower than they think they're capable of. This leads to people setting unrealistic goals and getting discouraged by progress that seems under par. I read somewhere that an average person can reasonably expect to gain 5lbs of pure muscle (10lbs at most depending on genetics) in a year long period, if they have perfect nutrition and sleep. I don't know what that would equate to in terms of strength gains over a single SSC, but considering that, 3-5% increase in strength doesn't seem terribly low.

I have to admit your bang on with that comment. When I first started reading this forum I was hoping for a decent front lever/ planche in a few years. As it stands now I think I'd be ecstatic just to reach pistols, pull-ups and ring push-up variations inside the next year. I am a big fella though at 6'5'' and I'm starting to realise what a lifelong task a lot of these exercises can be.

[geeman]

Maintain your sleep schedule and keep getting at least 8 hours a night to allow your body to recover from training.

[Warrior'sSuite]

Remember that most strong people that you see took years to get there not weeks or months.

Supposedly Chris Hemsworth, aka Thor, got in that shape in 6 months. Supposedly he had never lifted weights before that in his life.

But maybe there were steroids/drugs involved heh.