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chauinc

Creating a workout

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chauinc

I've been working on the planche and L seat for a little while and im trying to create a workout for myself. My goal is to get the planche and L seat down solidly before the new year. I have access to a pull up bar 2km away at the park and i'm going to make a some parallettes some time soon. Can someone help me build a good workout? My current workout consists of leg raises, pseudo planche push ups, the planche progressions from dragondoor, and the L seat progressions from beast skills.

For the planche i'm currently working on the frog stand with straight elbows and for the L seat i can stick one leg out with the other leg tucked for 5 seconds.

Aswell is there anything else other then calf raises and squats to build leg strength?

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Edward Smith

Hi Chauinc,

Welcome to the forum. Firstly, what are your goals? from the look of it it's, correct me if I'm wrong, that you just wanna get stronger and fitter (not for particular applications, i.e sports).

Anyway moving on. I believe you will be able to get an L-seat by new year, but the planche I doubt (this is not an attack on your abilities) but you should be able to get to the next progression at least, as long as you are consistent. Now with static holds we have, the forum members, concluded that in order to get good strength returns you must be able to hold a position for at least 10 seconds and that you use 50% of your max, so for example if you can hold an L-seat for 10 seconds max then perform sets of 5 seconds or if you can hold a position for 30 seconds max use 15 second sets (50% of max). If you can not hold a position for at least ten seconds move to an easier progression. So the one legged L-seat is beyond you.

Now designing a workout. I'll assume you know what sets and reps are, and what strength training parameters are (if you don't just ask). Firstly let's get your exercises:

- HLR (hanging leg raise)

- Psuedo planche push ups

- Frog Stand

- L-seat (progression)

let's forget the pseudo push ups for now, and focus on the other three. I would suggest adding in antagonistic work (opposing muscle groups, e.g bice/tricep, quads/hamstrings), so for the planche pair it together with the front lever, for HLR's pair it together with a press handstand variation (ask if unsure), for the L-seat I can't think of anything but I don't think it will matter to much. Alternate between exercises so do a set of HLR's then a set of press handstands then do another set of HLR's etc.

here is workout program you could use, I won't give you exact reps to perform since I don't know your strength capabilities.

Your Workout

HLR's (at whatever progression your at): 3x__

Headstand Leg Raises (press handstand variation): 3x__

Frog Stand: 60 seconds total work (each set at 50% of max)

Tuck Front Lever: same

L-seat: 30 seconds total work (50% of max)

That is just a very vague routine if you give me your strength levels for each exercise I (and everybody else) can help a lot more.

Ed

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chauinc

A few questions, why remove the pseudo planche push ups? Don't they help build strength for the planche? Also can you elaborate on what the headstand leg raise is?

On Tuesday I'll check what my reps are at for each, because I'm busy for sunday and monday. Thank you for the great reply ed x.

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kbryk

Well the reason I would take the pseudo planche pushups out is because they are a dynamic skill and will not help you to much with joint preparation, the planche is a static skill, so working the frog stand then later the tuck planche should work better, although it wouldn't hurt to throw in some pseudo planche pushups once you develop the tuck planche.

And as of right now do not specifically work for the planche build the strength around it and you will find yourself more confident and stronger overall then you can reach out and work specifically for the planche, at least that's what I did for most of my stuff.

You pretty much set yourself into a headstand and raise your legs, you can rest your back on a wall for support, just try to make sure your whole back stays against the wall.

A headstand leg raise: pheadstsm.jpgpheadst2sm.jpgpheadst3sm.jpg

It will build up your hip flexor strength along with core strength.

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chauinc

Ah i see, thank you both for the reply.

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Edward Smith

my pleasure,

I pretty much agree with Kbryk. I don't think pseudo push ups should be a major part of planche training, for three main reasons, firstly it is easy to cheat on them (not using maximum tension and not striving to lift feet off the ground), secondly they don't actually use all the same muscles as the planche and finally I feel the planche progressions Coach Sommer are enough regular work. This is not to say they shouldn't ever be performed I would suggest chucking em' in perhaps once every two weeks to prevent boredom in your workouts and I think doing this sort of thing may actually help your progress.

Kbryk explained headstand leg raises, but I'll give you some more specific performance details. So a headstand is just like a handstand except you are balancing on your head and hands rather than just your hands. If you are new to gymnastics conditioning or unable to hold a good headstand spend some time just working it as a static skill (still, no movement). Try and get your body is in a straight line from your head to your toes, this is just something that comes with practice. Especially important is the alignment of your neck and head, make sure when getting into a headstand you get your body directly above your head, I've seen kids try and do a sort of head-planche press to headstand rather than pike.

Now onto the actual press. The pictures Kbryk provided shows a straddle press. Which simply means the legs are straddled, spread apart, this increases your leverage making it easier to increase the difficulty just close your legs incrementally.

Now leg work (you asked in your first post). Pistols are a favourite of the forum members, look 'pistols exercises' up on google and you'll get enough info on them. And GHR (glute-hamraise) are a good antagonist exercise, they are in the forum. Look at the main page for some great exercises.

A long one again,

Ed

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chauinc

Alright so i tried out the Headstand Legraises i can do about 3 then i fall, for Leg raises i can do 15 before they get sloppy and for pistols i can do 4 for each leg. Any ideas for the sets and reps i should do?

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kbryk

Work headstand leg raises against a wall when you first start off, and place your hands farther away from the wall to make them easier, it lowers the leverage. As for leg raises if you can do 15 with good form, hell your doing good, but I think your form may be lacking with those 15 because leg raises are tough.

As for your pistols work normal body weight squats for right now to build up strength pistols aren't the easiest exercise.

As for sets wait for ed x, I do weird stuff compared to everyone else :P.

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chauinc
Work headstand leg raises against a wall when you first start off, and place your hands farther away from the wall to make them easier, it lowers the leverage. As for leg raises if you can do 15 with good form, hell your doing good, but I think your form may be lacking with those 15 because leg raises are tough.

As for your pistols work normal body weight squats for right now to build up strength pistols aren't the easiest exercise.

As for sets wait for ed x, I do weird stuff compared to everyone else :P.

I'm pretty sure my form for the leg raises are done right, i do them so that i lift my legs up without bending my knees to the maximum point(a bit higher then parallel to the ground), bring legs down and repeat. And i do it all while hanging from a bar. That is correct right?

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cathal

that is half a hanging leg raise. a full one involves going up until your feet touch the bar. your doing well to be doing 15 reps to 90 degrees. try slowing down the cadence of the exercise-3 seconds up, 1 second hold, 3 seconds down. this will build more strength.

coachs progression for the full hanging leg raise can be viewed here http://www.gymnasticbodies.com/articles3.html

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Edward Smith

Hi Chauinc,

Ok, well with the HLR's I would follow Coach Sommer's article and build up to full range of motion. Next, I'll talk about strength training parameters. Generally when training for strength you use sets of 1-5 reps for 1-5 sets employing heavy weight (in the case of bodyweight, leverage), never training to failure. Now that is a very generalized guide for strength training but it will do for now. Static holds are a bit different.

Here's a sample workout

Sample Workout

HLR's (progression your up to): 3x3

HeSLR: 3x2

Pistols (bodyweight): 4x1

GHR (check the archives on the main page): 4x1

Frog Stand (straight-arm): total of 60 seconds work performed in

Tuck Front Lever: sets of 50% max

L-seat: 30 seconds of work done in sets of 50% max

supplemental work could include but are not limited to:

- pseudo push ups

- ab wheel

- ring/bar rows

you should follow the same strength training parameters. I would suggest throwing one or two supplemental exercises in maybe once a week, just to mix it up a little.

Ed

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chauinc

Thats great ed x thank you again for the help.

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Edward Smith

My pleasure, if you have any more questions feel free to ask.

Ed

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chauinc

ed x how did you get the numbers for the sets and reps? I want to know for the future when i think i should change the numbers up.

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kbryk

Those are to build strength, like with endurance it is above 15 reps. as for the time schemes it's based on Coach Sommers articles, along with based on skill level.

Ed x will most likely add more, I just generalized.

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Edward Smith

I got the numbers via a couple of methods. For the Hanging Leg Raises I got them from Coach Sommer's article :lol: and with the HeSLR's I just got the same amount of sets so it was easy to alternate and you said after three you fell down, and I feel one rep is inadequate for using regularly, plus I reckon you'll boost your numbers on them pretty quickly as it seems you've never performed them as an exercise (your new to them) so you'll develop strength, skill and flexibility. If you can't do two reps for 3 sets drop to 1 rep and increase to 4 sets, start your core work with HeSLR's rather than HLR's so your still alternating every set. Keep this up for two or so weeks and you should have built up sufficiently to 3 sets of 2. When you get stronger at these I would go to the next progression of HLR's and eventually add weight, sticking to a 3x3 scheme, with HeSLR's I would work up 3x5 and then start elevating your head on books or the likes (progressing towards a handstand press) keeping your hands on the ground.

For the leg work I thought/think singles (sets of 1 rep) are enough for now. I would pick a total number of reps (total, e.g 3x2=6) to reach say 10 so you could end up doing 5x2 or 2x5 (you could of course pick a different number) then start progressing through these:

- regular pistol

- weighted pistol (always ongoing)

- pistol with a vertical jump

- pistol for distance

- pistol for distance and height

that's all for now, I'm at school :wink: , more to come,

Ed

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Edward Smith

Part 2 ( :shock: there's more?)

For the GHR I think now after looking at it may be it would be better to do more reps with more self-spotting (anyone else have any suggestions on this one?).

The planche and front lever are self explanatory. With the L-seat it takes the same format but I don't think 60 seconds is required as it is quite an advanced position, if you wish to do 60 work total that should be fine.

Ed

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Bob Sanders

How do I do GHR with self spotting. i usually can't do these in my workout because I do not have a bar or something to my my feet down.

Also about the rep and set scheme. What happens if you get stronger and the strength exercises turns in endurane. I used to work with Ross's Never Gymless. I had to stop because it requires you to buy bands and stuff and I don't want to. I wanted to do PURE body weight. And also his was more targeted towards multiple strenbgth qualities of a boxer.

Can't I just train randomly for 30 min. to 1 hour and doing exercise for however long I can do stop and then do again. Like let's say I can do for stand for 50 seconds. then I rest and do that again but this time I can only hold for 15 seconds. so then I decided to do hand stand holds and hold that for 11 seconds so then I did frog stand again and this time I did 23 seconds so then next I did some tucked L-sit for 16 seconds. Is that a good routine?

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Blairbob

Titan, that is not an optimal methodology to train for strength.

Ed, an L sit for 60 seconds is not really as tough as a tuck planche or tuck lever for 60s.

I'm pretty close on the tuck lever for 60s and so I've been working the advanced tuck lever. However, it takes me about 3 reps to hit 60s in tuck planche.

I can do 1m+. I don't have great hip flexor flexibility. I'm sure if I start working it more, I can try to get my L sit to 30 degrees then 45 degrees toward V. I can probably do about 20 good quality hanging leg lifts, but doing a V hang hold on bar is tough without cheating a bit due to flexibility issues.

At my best once upon a time, I could L on floor and barely straddle L. My press to HS was poor and more just shoulder strength than hip flexor compression.

Getting back to it, L sit for 60s is not that tough, especially if I can do it and my general numbers are poor. Personally, when I hit 2m I think that will be good and if I hit 3 I will be happy.

You might be able to do glute ham by sitting your feet behind you under a couch. If you have to, throw stuff on top to weigh it down.

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