Iron cross training

[nbraun198]

I wasn't sure where to post this, but when I train for the iron cross, I get a pain in both of my shoulders, on the top part (if that make sense) and it hurts a little when I am holding it and when I release it hurts. It kind of reminds me of forearm splints, but I trained the iron cross for a month, then stopped for 2-3 weeks. I had the pain when I stopped and I had it when I tried again today. Is this a common problem, what could it be?

Also, is someone able to list the common ways the iron cross is trained?

Thanks! And again, I wasn't sure where to post this, hopefully its okay here!

[John Sapinoso]

the most common mistake in training the iron cross is doing it too early. im not sure where it is but coach sommer has an outline of prerequisite straight arm skill to be mastered before any serious work is put into a cross. if you can do all the things on that list, post a video or a picture of your cross so you can get a critique.

[Cole Dano]

You will find this link very helpful.

Preparing the Elbows and Biceps for Iron Cross Training

[nbraun198]

the most common mistake in training the iron cross is doing it too early. im not sure where it is but coach sommer has an outline of prerequisite straight arm skill to be mastered before any serious work is put into a cross. if you can do all the things on that list, post a video or a picture of your cross so you can get a critique.

I the coach's requirements, and I can do them all except XR turned out handstand. This is because my rings are currently in my basement with a low ceiling where I won't be able to hold a handstand. I can with legs tucked, but it is incredibly awkward. I can hold a full front lever and a 1/2 back lever and an advanced tuck planche on rings for 35-50 seconds (don't have the balance to go further yet). I don't think the problem is coming from my elbows.

The original reason why I stopped training the cross for a while was because it was straining my elbows. So I attempted to prepare them and took a couple weeks off iron cross training. Once I came back, both my shoulders were experiencing problems (only when I attempt to hold the iron cross) and my elbows feel solid and have no pain associated with them.

I am going to try and train with a mirror today or try and find a camera to film myself. I feel there is a good chance that I have poor form.

I followed this link for my form and I am/was using the shoulder rolled forward technique.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_iron_cross_for_bodybuilders

[Razz]

Do you have balanced shoulders/upper body? Full front lever sounds good but what about external rotation, tight pectorals/anterior deltoids/lats and scapular mobility?

[Cole Dano]

First nice find on the article, i hadn't seen that one.

I don't want to be presumptuous here so pardon me if i'm off base, but you said you took a couple of weeks off to train your elbows. That is not enough time, i don't want to say what is, Coach Sommer would know that much better than i could pretend to, but i know two weeks isn't enough especially if you were already having issues.

I suspect that at least part of the problem is insufficient preparation, but again without know your training history and only having this post to go on, that's what one is led to conclude.

I can also say that the Coach is might adamant about the XR HS requirement. The planche is a bit optional, but if you're not doing the XRHS i think its a different story.

Without getting those ducks in line, its hard to advise further.

[nbraun198]

First nice find on the article, i hadn't seen that one.

I don't want to be presumptuous here so pardon me if i'm off base, but you said you took a couple of weeks off to train your elbows. That is not enough time, i don't want to say what is, Coach Sommer would know that much better than i could pretend to, but i know two weeks isn't enough especially if you were already having issues.

I suspect that at least part of the problem is insufficient preparation, but again without know your training history and only having this post to go on, that's what one is led to conclude.

I can also say that the Coach is might adamant about the XR HS requirement. The planche is a bit optional, but if you're not doing the XRHS i think its a different story.

Without getting those ducks in line, its hard to advise further.

I understand what you mean, but the issue has never been with my elbows. I don't do the exercise if I feel even a little bit of strain on the elbow. I took two -three weeks off iron cross training and trained back lever, planche, handstands, etc. Then when I tried again, there was no strain on the elbow.

However, I think the problem with my shoulders is that I let them rise way too high like I am doing a shoulder shrug. This pain also occurs if I bend my arms and put my elbows in each ring, so there is no strain on the elbows. I don't find it hard to hold, it just hurts. I will check my form later tonight and see if this is my problem.

I will do my best to work on the XRHS, but I don't like to because if I fall out of it forwards, I will hit my heels on a glass table, or a wall in the other direction. The rings would have to be about a foot off the ground. I am forced to have this setup because it is the winter and I have moved inside.

[Joshua Naterman]

Definitely take a few steps back and do around 2 months of IC preparatory conditioning to make sure there are no lingering problems that are waiting to pop up! If all that goes well with no pain, then at least you don't have any nagging injuries (well, a very good chance that you don't anyways).

How is your XR support? If you're trying a cross, 45-60s should be easy. A proper support is with the shoulders shrugged down hard the whole time, not losing position at all. That is very important, especially considering that you mentioned your shoulders were shrugging up. If you can't hold that support with the shoulders shrugged down for a good 45-60s fairly easily, that's probably your first step.

When you start training cross, You may find that you benefit quite a lot from simply not trying a full cross. Maybe start at 45 degrees, sort of like a wide XR support. Shoulders shrugged down still applies. From there, opening the arm angle slowly (maybe a few degrees every 2-3 months) should be safe. I did this on my long rings set up at my friend's place a while ago and was at a comfortable 55 degree support or so for like 20-30s when I started getting way too aggressive with my planche work and injured my shoulders. I was definitely not slow or methodical enough with my cross training either, since I clearly was not prepared according to Coach's list.

I am not going to pretend that last paragraph is how Coach does cross training, I have absolutely very little idea about what he does. None of us at the US seminars so far is far enough along to merit covering that in detail. It seems to me that this would be an intelligent way to go, but please bear in mind that is somewhat speculative. Perhaps Razz and Dillon will be able to clarify things further.

[AlexX]

This could be caused by a multitude of issues:

- problem with your scapula/rotator cuff - when was the last time you did assistance work for the rotator cuff muscles?

- muscular imbalance in one of the anterior to posterior muscles. How is your pulling when compared to your pressing?

- Tightness in the shoulder and surrounding musculature. This goes with the previous point of imbalances but is worth mentioning on its own. Most people's posture sucks, they overstretch their upper back musculature while tightening the pecs and anterior deltoids. This can lead to some fantastic shoulder problems.

- Too much too soon. If you just jump into iron cross work without having a strong base of strength, your shoulders will scream with pain. I am not knowledgeable enough to post specific strength requirements for the iron cross but I imagine having all the exercises in the BTGB down is a good start.

- Physiologically incorrect shoulder position for you. Rolling shoulders forward during iron cross just feels very bad for me, a good portion of it is that my pressing is much weaker than my pulling and I've had some serious supraspinatus issues since I was 16. Keeping my shoulders rolled back allows me to use my strongest muscles while not aggravating the shoulder joint.

I've only played around with the iron cross a few times before making the conclusion that it is too early for me to start including it in my training. Following my own advice I am working on having every single exercise in the BTGB before starting iron cross training.

[Blairbob]

Nbraun198, get and old futon or air mattress to fall on for your ring work. I never thought about an air mattress but they should be cheaper than buying a futon or mattress, unless you have an old one.

Not having a straight BL would mean no cross work for you in my book. This should just take some little work if you are indeed that strong.

After taking off a few weeks, you have to ease back into things; not start right off where you were before, even with an ample warmup.

[nbraun198]

I will look into getting a cheap air mattress, thanks! Also, I have completely stopped the iron cross training and I am focusing perfecting my support hold and my back lever. I am only going to try the cross again when I have a solid back lever.

Thanks for all the input everyone!

[Cole Dano]

I have completely stopped the iron cross training and I am focusing perfecting my support hold and my back lever. I am only going to try the cross again when I have a solid back lever.

Wise man!