HIIT and Vertical Jump Training

[norbeex3]

Hello!

So I came by this method for burning fat called HIIT(High Intensity Interval Training). I'm aiming to lower BF to around 4-5%.

I'm sure you guys already heard about that and I think there were some discussions on the forums on the topic already. It works magic for me and only takes 20 minutes in the morning.

I'm also using the vertical program from jumpmanual.com, my buddies already gained some serious inches with this.

My problem is that HIIT can be called leg training because it includes high intensity sprints that can tire my leg but The Jump Manual says you must neglect leg training on the days you are not training your vertical and Verticals should be done with maximum intensity. If I tire my legs with HIIT to a point I can't exert maximum power already for gains I guess.

What do you think?

[Neal Winkler]

The manual is correct. Doing HIIT will make it harder for you to recover from all your training and it will the signal opposite adaptations to your muscles that you are trying to get from strength/power training.

Also, getting down to very low levels of body fat and gaining strength/power at the same time is not a generally a good idea. You should pick one of those goals at a time.

Finally, I doubt you will get to 4-5% bf. That is extremely lean. In all likelyhood you will get to 9-11% and then convince yourself that you are really 4-5%. You will then tell everyone you are 4-5% and they won't know any better, be super impressed, and think you are totally awesome. You will also go around the internet and tell everyone you are 4-5%. Unfortunately for you, you will run into people like me who will rain on your parade and call you out. You will subsequently feel dumb but decide not to tell all those people that you really aren't 4-5%.

[norbeex3]

hey, thanks for the motivation.....

The reason I'm shooting for 4-5 is the fact that I'm naturally lean(around 11%) so I want to take it further.

If they cannot go together than I will pick power first. Thanks

[Philip Chubb]

Those are somewhat opposite goals. You can do both, but you will give up a bit of performance in both as well. That isn't to say it won't be high. Just not optimal. With the bodyfat, 4 to 5 is extremely low and possibly unhealthy. I read somewhere that Charles Poliquin says at least 6 percent to avoid things like sleep problems. That is also considered lean and with a good diet can be reached very simply.

[norbeex3]

I really want to know how would I perform, feel, look with 4-5 percent but I would be okay with 6 to 7 on the long run too. Well I guess I have to choose one because only optimal results can inspire well enough. I will stick with Vertical training as I said and a good diet and see what results will it bring.

What about circuit trainings? Are they optimal for burning fat? And what if I speed up my upper body training( shorten rest time, increase intensity)?

[Blairbob]

HIT is just another form of circuit training. You get a quick, fast workout in a short amount of time.

And what if I speed up my upper body training( shorten rest time, increase intensity)?

That means you are still doing another form of circuit training though depending on what you are doing it could be plyometric. It sort of depends on exactly what you are doing. Still, this may not be the optimum way to develop strength and/or power.

[norbeex3]

Right, then we are back at the start. Guess I really have to separate the two goals...

[Philip Chubb]

You could workout for one goal and diet the weight off for the other. That would help especially since less weight would help you jump higher.

[Joshua Naterman]

If I may offer my opinion, HIIT does not necessarily have to interfere with your goals, but the traditional methods will definitely not be compatible with power training. Doing 5s sprints with 45-60s rests will work well, as long as you stop the moment you notice you are dropping more than 5% speed, but the suggestion of having an ultra clean diet is probably the way to go if you are trying to do both at the same time.

I have heard jump manual is pretty decent, I do not own it myself. Regardless, you are plenty lean. I would not shoot for any specific BF % right now, but rather focus on your vertical program for an entire cycle. Keep your diet clean and you should stay where you are at the very least! For many people, training the nervous system is the biggest part of power training and what you are doing with traditional high intensity intervals will interfere with the CNS recovery. If anything, you should just do long duration low intensity work, like walking uphill for 30 minutes with your heart rate around 120. That is probably the single best thing for you to do if you intend to attempt some fat loss, and also make sure you are somewhat glycogen depleted. The body burns carbohydrates preferentially, and will ignore fatty acids to a large extent if carbs are available. That will still affect recovery, so I do recommend that if you intend on losing body fat that you do so first, and do your serious power training once you have reached target bf%.

[norbeex3]

Thanks Slizz, It's always good to hear your opinion on a topic. Why do you think I should concern myself about bodyfat first? Does it take less time than power training? I'm only asking because I haven't had a serious diet up to now yet. There had been some experiments but not a full diet

How long does it take for an average man, Let's say from 14-15% bf to diet and train down with moderate cardio but serious strength training to 8-7%? I know it varies from person to person but can you give me an average time?

[Joshua Naterman]

Average times are 1-2% BF loss per month. You can't really do more than that without compromising muscle tissue. That is why fat people can lose much more fat per month than skinny people.

Fat loss protocols will interfere with your vertical training much more than training for your vertical will mess with your bodyfat. I always suggest BF loss first if that is in any way an issue for someone because it is simply easier to stay lean once you are lean, and also easier to get fatter when you are, well, more fatty! There is hormonal inertia at work, so to speak.

You are lean enough to where if you clean up your diet and just train for your vertical and maintain your WODs you should experience slow and steady decreases in BF until you hit whatever your body's preferred BF level is. The only people who really need to be worried about BF percentage are figure "athletes" like bodybuilders. All the dietary restriction that is necessary to drop as low as you are talking about is detrimental to performance. That is another reason I recommend you do your BF thing first.

[norbeex3]

Sounds good and I know it belongs to the nutrition forums but if You can give me a list of foods rich in protein and more importantly not too expensive i'd be more than thankful. There are a lot of articles out there on the topic but I want to eat foods like the Oatmeal: cheap and very rich in nutrients especially protein. I have a program called FitDay which contains pretty much all the foods but some everyday tips on them would be appriciated.

[AlexX]

4-5 percent bf is a lot leaner than you think, triangle and slizzardman accurately pointed out two very good points: 1. most people who think they are 6 percent or below are not and are usually just a legitimate 8-10 percent 2. The only people that really NEED to get that low in bf are bodybuilders and figure athletes. Being lean helps with vertical immensely but eventually you enter a point of diminishing returns. Meaning the work it takes to get to a true 4-5 percent will leave you very exhausted and weak (just ask anyone who has prepared for a competition) and have a negative effect on your vertical training. A true 8-10 percent bf is more than enough for a good power to weight ratio.

On another note unless you have no vertical training under your belt and are pretty high in fat levels (above 15 percent) doing everything at ones will get you no where fast. Only beginners can make gains in getting leaner, faster and stronger all at ones. Look at anyone who trains for power or strength at the intermediate level. They train in cycles with very specific goals. Sometimes it's hypertrophy, sometimes its power, sometimes it's get lean or get strong but they commit to one goal at a time while maintaining the others.

[Philip Chubb]

I am doubting that oatmeal is as rich in nutrients as you think. And for getting down to a bodyfat that low, it probably won't be very beneficial. Meat and veggies make a decent base for most people. Keep the diet very clean and you will lean out slowly but surely. Getting to six percent isn't as complicated as people think. It just takes a while.

[Blairbob]

Body fat tests with calipers are not the same as body fat measurements with a water tank or DEXA or bodpod (which can be hit and miss, I hear). I won't even go into those electronic body fat testers using impedance.

If you really want to get that low, go take some form of test, preferably water tank or bodpod or DEXA at an uni.

[norbeex3]

Thanks for the reply guys.

AlexX, I think you're right about the 8-10 percent and 8 would be fine but I want to go a little bit lower than the average lean athlete just too se what it feels like, and as slizzardman said, once you are lean it's easier to stay lean with a clean diet. So I will take the bodyfat goal first and then the power training

PHILIP, I know that oatmeal is not as rich in nutrients as meat and veggies but I only eat it as a breakfast and it works really well.

Blairbob, It isn't an option for me because I leave in Europe and the Universities here are not so rich, they do not have the equipment for tests like this. :S I will try to find some accurate testing option, an accurate number would be good to know.

So anyone has a list of rich protein sources with realtively low price? or is that a dream of mine and I will have to buy the more expensive ones too?

[AlexX]

Canned tuna, whey protein, milk, eggs, and depending where you are in europe butcher shops will have some pretty sweet deals on meats like lamb, elk and horse. All excellent sources of quality protein.

[Joshua Naterman]

Cottage cheese is great too, if it doesn't bother you. I had no idea the European butchers would have those meats! I'm jealous.

[AlexX]

Yeah Spain and France specifically is a heaven for meat lovers. The only downside to the French is that the portions are tiny. You can get those meats here too (except for Horse, pet status and all) but you have to know a butcher or a farm owner or go hunting for deer meat.

[Cole Dano]

This year i've been lucky enough to have fresh wild boar and moose. Very tasty, the moose was fantastic, i felt very manly after eating it!

[norbeex3]

well in Hungary, there isn't so many wild meat in the butcher shops, but I'll look around a bit

The problem is that the prices are pretty high compared to the average salary here, but I think I'll try and look for discounts on meats that are 'best before' that day.