Help Designing Program

[Cole Dano]

It doesn't really matter if you start the cycle midstream, think of it as more of a circular cycle than one with a distinct beginning and end. However, if you do start by going back a week or two, make sure you start on the same weekday as the WOD. In other words if its a Monday, start on a WOD that was on a Monday. This is because the Coach takes the number of rest days into account in the cycle.

Go easy the first cycle, it does take some time and effort to figure out how to scale, and you have also find ways to adapt the equipment needs for each workout etc. Once you do it a couple of time though it becomes smooth sailing, and it is worth the effort without a doubt.

[Blairbob]

Btw, please do not post the 28 day cycle from BtGB seminar. I will delete that if I see it. Sorry, just my take on it.

Slizzardman, while Jotchev and a few others like Chutsovina and that pommel guy from Sweden have been around forever, I would not just chalk it up to their program. Some of these individuals have stuck around because of their love for it or the mere fiscal fact that it's best for them financially. It's one of the reasons, Jotchev was doing NinjaWarrior. Sometimes, they can go into coaching but even there are sometimes only so many positions in these countries. I personally know an ex-olympian who could not go into coaching in her coaching after she retired because of politics and a lack of positions.

There is definitely something about a program that does not have to change every 12 weeks because you have to cycle working max str, power, or hypertrophy or burning out or this or that, etc.

[Tarun Suri]

I just looked up that video from ninjawarrior. Man, I felt like I was on the tip of my toes the entire time :!:

[Graham Smith]

I'll just throw my 2 cents into the ring, for what they're worth.

When I started BtGB style training, I was very very weak. I tried the WoTD and found that I could not scale it down far enough to progress satisfactorily (Partially due to a lack of imagination on my part). I started a 4 day per week routine similar to the Kilroy 70 template which has been referenced here. I would warm up with prehab exercises and FSP's and then move onto exercises from the book, having a pull day and a push day, finishing off with stretches. To be honest, it worked great, to a point. I made very good progress to more difficult variations, but did eventually plateu. The only thing that got me through the plateu, was to start doing the WODs. I have not plateud (how the hell do you spell that) doing the WOD's and I never get bored. So in summary, I think that a steady 7 day cycle is probably pretty good at introductory conditioning to prepare for the WOD's but won't be the be all and end all. That being said, it's going to be a damn sight better than nothing!

I do have a question that I wouldn't mind getting answered myself though. My life is pretty hectic, and I find it pretty hard to schedule workouts. As a result, I tend to miss the odd WOD here or there, and it is starting to seem like I am overemphasizing particular workouts. Does anyone have a solution to this other than dragging me to the gym regardless?

[Cole Dano]

I'll just throw my 2 cents into the ring, for what they're worth.

When I started BtGB style training, I was very very weak. I tried the WoTD and found that I could not scale it down far enough to progress satisfactorily (Partially due to a lack of imagination on my part). I started a 4 day per week routine similar to the Kilroy 70 template which has been referenced here. I would warm up with prehab exercises and FSP's and then move onto exercises from the book, having a pull day and a push day, finishing off with stretches. To be honest, it worked great, to a point. I made very good progress to more difficult variations, but did eventually plateu. The only thing that got me through the plateu, was to start doing the WODs. I have not plateud (how the hell do you spell that) doing the WOD's and I never get bored. So in summary, I think that a steady 7 day cycle is probably pretty good at introductory conditioning to prepare for the WOD's but won't be the be all and end all. That being said, it's going to be a damn sight better than nothing!

I do have a question that I wouldn't mind getting answered myself though. My life is pretty hectic, and I find it pretty hard to schedule workouts. As a result, I tend to miss the odd WOD here or there, and it is starting to seem like I am overemphasizing particular workouts. Does anyone have a solution to this other than dragging me to the gym regardless?

Primate i think you summed it up nicely. For the average beginner, the Kilroy70 works fine, gives time to get the mentally and physically used to this style of training. At some point, one will be almost compelled to begin the WODs, and then the real fun begins!

If you miss WODs and notice that the balance is off, pick one of the other ones you've missed.

[Cole Dano]

It doesn't really matter if you start the cycle midstream, think of it as more of a circular cycle than one with a distinct beginning and end. However, if you do start by going back a week or two, make sure you start on the same weekday as the WOD. In other words if its a Monday, start on a WOD that was on a Monday. This is because the Coach takes the number of rest days into account in the cycle.

Go easy the first cycle, it does take some time and effort to figure out how to scale, and you have also find ways to adapt the equipment needs for each workout etc. Once you do it a couple of time though it becomes smooth sailing, and it is worth the effort without a doubt.

God i'm quoting myself! But i am finally beginning to compile my notes and noted this little oversight i made about the 28 day cycle its NOT! Its actually a 30 day cycle!

This is of interest, at least to those of us who are looking closely at the programing cycle.

What this means, and i find this very interesting in terms of creating a very organic waviness in the whole cycle, is that the actual weekday of each practice is constantly changing and therefore the surrounding rest periods etc.

To sketch it out lets say there are 6 workouts-

Cycle 1 : M - WO1 : Tu - WO2 : W - Rest : Th - WO3 : F - WO4 : Sa - Rest : Su - Rest : M - WO5 : Tu - WO6 :

Cycle 2 : Th - WO1 : Fr - WO2 : Sa - Rest : Su - Rest : M - WO3 : Tu - WO4 : W - Rest : Th - WO5 : Fr WO6 :

etc....

So things are set up on a double cycle, that of the basic 30 day arrangement and then the cycling of the cycle itself. Pretty nice!

[Joshua Naterman]

Btw, please do not post the 28 day cycle from BtGB seminar. I will delete that if I see it. Sorry, just my take on it.

Slizzardman, while Jotchev and a few others like Chutsovina and that pommel guy from Sweden have been around forever, I would not just chalk it up to their program. Some of these individuals have stuck around because of their love for it or the mere fiscal fact that it's best for them financially. It's one of the reasons, Jotchev was doing NinjaWarrior. Sometimes, they can go into coaching but even there are sometimes only so many positions in these countries. I personally know an ex-olympian who could not go into coaching in her coaching after she retired because of politics and a lack of positions.

There is definitely something about a program that does not have to change every 12 weeks because you have to cycle working max str, power, or hypertrophy or burning out or this or that, etc.

Very interesting!!! Thank you for the insights!

I have to find that video now.

[Guest Valentin]

HI

For those that are looking for abbreviations, Coach S has put up a nice sticky post cause WOD Acronyms haha (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1434) this will explain some of the abbreviations. The rest you might be able to figure out from the list presented, or from searching on the post (hence the search function haha..not but seriously it work wonders).

slizzardman no offense taken, its totally cool. What you explain is fine. I am a shity poster, and i should really keep my post to like 1 paragraph haha cause i myself get lost at times. I think i may have some form of dyslexia or something haha.. I dont know.

One reservation is when i read this:

Add in a structure that keeps a focus on joint prehab and shoring up weak points and I can't imagine it going too far wrong. Coach's GB program is one such program

This sounds like (and i know you do since you have attended the seminars) you know something more about the program that others (like myself) don't. This is were i come to 'a' problem. Because for me to see the true benefit of the program i need to see it in its entirety. However i am also looking at it, as how its applied to the coaches gymnast and not just to recreational athletes. Now of course if want to know all the details, i need to attend the seminars (which hopefully 1 day will happen), . I do own the BG book, and i guess this is where I was personally hopping to learn about the Coach S program design and recommendations. Unfortunately that was not the case (and i understand it) I guess in the next books.

To address some of your responses to my first post you said

Higher level gymnasts have shoulders that are at least as unbalanced as those of powerlifters. Why? ALL the high point moves are pressing. Internal rotation. The battle for these guys is to keep their shoulders functional enough to compete.

i agree with your statement, however i did say

WOD, given that its used for gymnasts (whom out of most sports are among the more balanced physiologically

i never said they are balanced. I know from my own trainings, and from 99% of gymnastics programs i have seen that there are imbalances in training.

Another issue is i have about its effectiveness for the general athlete.

Given that the program is a 28/30 day (based on Primates analysis of the program) cycle, based on what i understand and guessing from the Coach S philosophy (and some assessment of the program as i can make it out), each training goal (Dynamic strength, basic strength (upper and lower body), Rings strength, HS work, Pre-hab, rest) is repeat about 2-3 times per cycle, and little more for rest. Now how much time does this give for adaptation? i ask. How much benefit is one to really experience? Of course there will be carry over between Rings strength and Basic Strength and dynamic strength, but would it be more than if someone did lets say a 9 day cycle? No matter how you package a program for it to be effective it needs to address :overload, specificity, reversibility, and individual differences. How much overload is the average athlete getting? I think this is something i mylself need to really look into... Humm...OK i got an idea..thanks.. I will continue this post again...for now time to do some research..

Thanks and again slizzardman i really appreciate your responses. Only thing i am aware of is how much i don't know.. so thanks for helping.