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Philip Chubb

Pool Jumps

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Philip Chubb

Hello everyone! I have been following the site and finally decided to join. I have to say, it is amazing and everyone here has awesome ideas on training! Onto the topic, I have been experimenting with different ideas on increasing my vertical jump without the use of weights. I do not want to alter my strength to weight ratio in a bad way. I know without weights, any method I use will be at least somewhat subpar but lately, I have been trying to add in pool jumps. Such as squating down in neck high water and try to explode out as fast as I can. I wanted to know if anyone else has tried this and what their experience has been with it. I also saw a similar study done with sand that gave me ideas as well..

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acegerter

Apparently NFL players do it for training and with a quick youtube search...

BJ penn (5'9 155lbs) 3 and 4ft jump outs.

I actually tried jumping out of a 3ft deep section of a pool a couple weeks back, its not easy haha. Took 10-15 attempts but I finally made it out with both legs. My only advice is to practice jumping feet forward and head back at first so you don't slip and smack your face on the edge.

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Neal Winkler

Why don't you want to use weights?

Your inclusion of water as resistance but not weights is arbitrary since water and weights are both external resistance.

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Joshua Naterman

Well, the extra force from the hip flexors required to rip the legs out of the water is probably a bit different than what happens with weighted jumps, but the idea of adding resistance is certainly common to both methods.

I can see both being beneficial, it will be interesting to see how your training progresses if you pursue this. I do think you will get your best results if you do some weighted vertical jumps as well. The water is going to alter your form a bit, and working with a light weight on land will probably help reinforce the natural jumping pattern.

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Philip Chubb

I've seen both of those videos. I actually wonder what BJs vertical is like because 3 feet of water is more than half his height. But I also know the speed that you can bring up your legs also affects jumping out the pool. I'm considering jumping out from nose height and seeing those effects.

Trianglechoke,

I don't want to use too much weight because I feel like i already have glutes and quads that are too developed for a good strength to weight ratio. Though its possible I am paranoid.

Slizzardman,

I am definitely going to add a little bit. Namely Coach Sommer's progression on single leg squats with up to 15 percent bodyweight. I'm hoping that doesn't make my legs grow. I'm also hoping to eventually be able to do a one legged natural leg curl. That is very very far off however if it is even possible. I will add the light weight work however with pool work and just keep track of my measurements.

Thanks for everyones feedback! I know its hard to get the same benefit of olympic lifting in terms of vertical jump, but I am hoping to close the gap a bit.

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Joshua Naterman

Jeff has a great point. Doing just a few singles or doubles with heavy weight will cause the adaptation to be almost entirely neurological.

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Philip Chubb

Thank you for the good points about the doubles and singles! I was actually coming up with this from reading a discussion where Ido wrote about sets of 2 to 3 reps still increasing mass. That just made me a bit more cautious about adding on weight to my routines.

I don't have anything against olympic weightlifting at all. I actually used it for a while and felt great and more explosive than I had ever been. However, I stopped because I wanted to concentrate more on my gymnastic goals. Jumping is a smaller side goal.

I appreciate everyones points and I may begin looking into the singles and doubles if I feel I need more height after I have achieved my bodyweight goals. Ideally, I want to keep my routine as bodyweight as possible. Possibly a bit crazy to do but I just prefer not to use weights after using them for so many years.

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Sternford

Wouldn't it be different then just weighted jumping though because the resistance is all around you or something?

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Philip Chubb

I would imagine it would be fairly different from a weight jump. I especially like the idea of tuck jumps in the pool. There would be resistance not only on the jump but also on bringing the knees up into the tuck. That is something I haven't found a similar weight exercise for yet. Or I may have but I don't remember. What do you think?

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Joshua Naterman

Full clean. That's part of why O-lifting is so good for jumping. You explode up AND down at the hips. First you're lifting past the knees, then you're using your hips to rocket the bar up, and then you're pulling yourself under the bar as it floats, which means you have to drop faster than gravity, so you're pulling yourself into something of a flat tuck with your hip flexors. It all happens very quickly, and that's what makes it so transferable to other athletic endeavors.

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Razz

I was about to propose weighted jumps with ancle weights strapped around thighs, but guess a full clean is better :mrgreen:

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Philip Chubb

Full cleans in the water would be awesome! Though I wonder if a lighter weight with more resistance would be similar to a heavier weight with just gravity.

I still want to avoid weights but Slizzardman thank you for the point about full cleans! I didn't realize how much benefit was in the closing part of the hips. Maybe because I mostly did power cleans.

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Philip Chubb

Thanks Jeff! You're competley correct. I do enjoy my routines being completely bodyweight. Makes it easy with not having to trek to the gym on the bus or take the train all the way to the one I work at.

I am hoping for result that are at least interesting. In a perfect world my vertical would increase from including pool work and swimming while at the same time apthropying my legs about 2 or 4 inches each. LOL. If only it were perfect.

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Joshua Naterman
Full clean in a pool

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I want to see this.

You know, I totally agree. Most of us aren't trying to be world champion of the universe or whatever, we just want to be in great shape and enjoy our workouts. We all get our thrills in different places, and there are a lot of ways to accomplish this goal. There's nothing wrong with BW only stuff if that's what you love, and if later you get curious about something else and add it in that's cool too! It's not like you are betraying yourself! :lol: I'm always looking into and testing new (to me) ideas regarding my own fitness.

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Philip Chubb

I feel the exact same way! I like using my body as weight. Which is why I primarily use gymnasts now for conditioning. Though I might try finding someway to do full cleans in the pool...

Anyone thinking what I'm thinking? Olympic lifting water aerobics class..?

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Joshua Naterman

I can just see the headlines now...

" ... thanks Becky. Now for our 7 o'clock headlines... 47 people drowned at a local YMCA just minutes ago. Ironically (a punny irony in itself as iron was involved!) and perhaps to the surprise of no onlookers whatsoever, the first class of underwater Olympic Weightlifting sunk. Literally. No news as of yet regarding the future of this unlikely and perhaps ill-fated fitness program. In a related story, downtown Atlanta streets are flooding due to a massive leak in water supply pipes for the YMCA pool, perhaps due to a large number of simultaneous shocks as the underwater Olympic Lifting class performed its first and perhaps last lift (or should we say drop?)."

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Philip Chubb

HAHAHAHAHAA!! Quite possibly the funniest thing I have read on this board! I was thinking more with aqua dumbells or some variation of that.

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Sternford

During the summer in the pool I would try to hold pool volleyballs underwater at arm's length or pull them down from below. Kinda interesting, less dangerous

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Philip Chubb
During the summer in the pool I would try to hold pool volleyballs underwater at arm's length or pull them down from below. Kinda interesting, less dangerous

That sounds interesting though I am having a hard time visualizing it. What were you building up with this exercise?

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Sternford

I dunno, it's just something I was doing with the volleyball. Just stand in the shallow end and sit a ball on the water at arm's length. Then just push it down under and bring it to your side. It's interesting because you also have to keep the ball stabilized under the water or it will fly up

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Philip Chubb

Hey thanks! That actually sounds like an interesting prehab/rehab method for elbow health.

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Joshua Naterman

We are all wrong about the pool jumps. They are one of the only ways to dynamically train progressive acceleration of the lower body, because the resistance becomes less as you rise through and out of the water. This allows the body to continue accelerating instead of being stuck with linear acceleration, as the resistance to the jump is being lowered throughout the movement. This can not be done with bodyweight jumping, although resistance bands could be employed to simulate this effect but would interfere with jumping technique enough to perhaps negate any positive effect.

Also, if you are incorporating the arm swing into your water jumps you will also be training arm acceleration, which will of course improve your vertical. I'm learning a lot about this right now and will be putting everything into effect in a week or less. This will be very interesting! I'll be doing my exercise tests this coming monday.

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Philip Chubb

Awesome! I'm happy you'll be trying it out as well! I think it could really give some benefit to jumping. I'm just stuck waiting for my gyms pool to be fixed to resume it myself

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AlexX

Pool jumps are ok but if you are really against using weights you'll be significantly reducing your overall possible progress. Speed training (any jumps, olympic lifts, or plyo work) + maximum strength (squats, deadlifts, single leg squats) has been shown to be the most efficient method possible for increasing vertical. Gains with only one or the other are substantially less. Olympic lifters have great explosive power for this one reason their max squats are through the roof rivaled only by powerlifters, and they do speed work (its really in the strength speed category but you get the point) in the way of olympic lifts.

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