Training like a bodybuilder with gymnastic exercises

I wanted to know if you can train like a bodybuilder (8-12 reps, 4-6 sets) with FBE's and get good results in hypertrophy? How would you go around doing this?

For instance, take a basic pull/chin and dip and if your max is 12 reps (without added weight) for both, do 5 sets of this? And when you can do this easily, either add weight or decrease the leverage or do the next variation?

I suggest if you want to look like a bodybuilder then you start bodybuilding. If you want some performance out of your life and want to look good and still look like a human, then do the WODs posted here.

I didn't say I wanted to look like a bodybuilder, which I probably couldn't even if I wanted to anyways heh.

Deft, take a look at this

http://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4479

This is slizzardman giving me a lot of good tips on how to integrate some weightlifting exercises with the wods.

This is another good one

http://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4252

This Coach Sommer himself gives the tip, that you can actually mimic the bodybuilding style of training with bodyweigth exercises.

What I'm trying to implement is follow exaclty the wods, along with my 1hr and half of gymnastic training, and add in some weigths on key days, focusing hypertrophy.

But honestly, if you're seeking hypertrophy ONLY, go for bodybuilding. If you want strength and performance, wods are the answer. You can also try to integrate both, witch is what I'm doing, but you probably won't progress in both as fast as you could if your training was focused.

Hope this helps =D

Deft-Mastery said:

I wanted to know if you can train like a bodybuilder (8-12 reps, 4-6 sets) with FBE's and get good results in hypertrophy? How would you go around doing this?

For instance, take a basic pull/chin and dip and if your max is 12 reps (without added weight) for both, do 5 sets of this? And when you can do this easily, either add weight or decrease the leverage or do the next variation?

You would scale everything to allow for more reps. As a natural bodybuilder, you'd want to cycle between working your muscles for strength and endurance every 1-3 workouts. I would suggest following the WODs, and each time the same WOD comes up you alternate between an endurance set/rep scheme and the given strength-oriented one. Natural bodybuilders tend to do more heavy lifting as a percentage of their workouts than the not natural ones. You can read a lot about this if you search for natural bodybuilding on google and avoid the ad sites.

Of course, you COULD just do everything endurance style all the time, but to me that's just a bit silly. Not wrong, just less than productive.

I'm currently planning to do a similar thing with mine. Although I'm not scaling down the exercise for reps I plan on continuing to up the reps on each exercise each cycle until I get to 3*10reps. Although something that as really surprised me is that my thighs are the only muscle group I've noticed quite difference with hypertrophy and I'm only doing 6 sets of 2 negatives at the moment. And the exercises I'm doing 4sets of 7 etc I haven't noticed any difference in size. Guess you're just genetically predisposed in certain areas.

Longshanks said:

I'm currently planning to do a similar thing with mine. Although I'm not scaling down the exercise for reps I plan on continuing to up the reps on each exercise each cycle until I get to 3*10reps. Although something that as really surprised me is that my thighs are the only muscle group I've noticed quite difference with hypertrophy and I'm only doing 6 sets of 2 negatives at the moment. And the exercises I'm doing 4sets of 7 etc I haven't noticed any difference in size. Guess you're just genetically predisposed in certain areas.

Maybe...

I have noticed that my back muscles get a lot of soreness from the wods, much like when I was lifting. The shoulders also get similar feelings after a workout, but that definetly doesn't hapen with the chest, and triceps, although they do feel kinda tired. It may be wrong, but I also think that the elite gimnasts have lats and shoulder a lot more developed than the chest part. Their backs are just huge, and so the shoulders! That being said, I plan to emphatize my lifting complements with bench presses, dips and crossovers, but always taking extra care to not lose shoulder flexibility.

I was thinking, how could you make a workout more intense? For example the workout I'm doing is 6 sets of 10 chins/pulls and 12 dips (these numbers go down to 10-12, 10-12, 9-12, 9-12, 8-11, 8-11 or something like that). Doing this workout takes 30-33 minutes, because of the rest times, because I'm doing my max if not close to the number of reps I can do, so I have to take 3+ minutes, the last sets maybe even 4+.

So what if I were to do like 12 sets of 50-70% of my max reps with 45s rest between sets? Would that be a more intense workout, or am I better off just doing the main workout?

You can't keep the same total workload when intensity increases. You're also going to have one hell of a time trying to calculate percentages. The higher the load the higher the intensity. The higher the intensity, the less total volume you will be able to use. You will have to play with it to see what works for you, but I would advise doing slightly less than you think you should.

Slizz.. My general KillRoy derived workout sets range from 3x5 to 5x5 depending on the exercise at hand. I am guessing this is perfect for BtGB and Strength.

I remember reading somewhere on the forums (cant find it now) about different workout/ rep / ranges...going from...

Strength > Strength-Hypertrophy > Hypertrophy > Etc .... > Endurance.

How could I vary / change / add ...different Rep/set variation to the above to boost hypertrophy for certain muscles.

Esp... I'd like more hypertrophy on my arms. Is the above 3x5 to 5x5 doing dip / pushup / pull up / variations good enough for hypertrophy or should I add something to it... ?

PS: Arms have gotten skinny & lean.. strong but skinny... I prefer doing bodyweight exercises... so any recommendations on the set / rep variation.... If not, then would you suggest some bodyweight / weights / Curls exercises on that front?

slizzardman said:

You can't keep the same total workload when intensity increases. You're also going to have one hell of a time trying to calculate percentages. The higher the load the higher the intensity. The higher the intensity, the less total volume you will be able to use. You will have to play with it to see what works for you, but I would advise doing slightly less than you think you should.

I tried out what I said yesterday and here is what happened:

First I did 12 sets with 50% of my max, so 5 chins/pulls and 6 dips each set, 45-60s of rest between each set. It wasn't that bad, and it wasn't too hard, but it wasn't easy.

But then, like 2 hours later maybe, I decided to try to do with 60%, so I did 12 sets of 6 chins and 7 dips, with the same rest time between sets, and THIS was hard, but I finished it. I was pouring sweat all over the place. It was rough, I even nearly lost track of the number of sets a few times. So with this workout I actually ended up doing more total reps than with the other of 6 sets, 72 chins against 50 something and 84 dips against 68ish, and I even finished it like 10 minutes faster.

I was also DEFINITELY more tired from this workout than from the other 6 set one. For sure.

But I don't know man. I'm doing these workouts and I don't think I'm seeing the results they should give, that's why sometimes I'd just like to stick with the statics and forget chins and dips.

How long does it take to actually build some muscle? A month? 2? 3?

Or maybe I should start doing harder variations rather than the same old regular pulls and dips.

One more thing. Do you think it's also ok to workout in between days, instead of taking 2-3 days off in a row? I just don't like the idea of not doing anything at all 3 days straight.

Why are you taking 2-3 days off in a row? Is that your weekend, or is that just how your current workouts run?

It sounds like you're doing unweighted dips and chins, is that right? If so, what you're doing would be considered density training, because what you're trying to do is fit more work at the same intensity into a given period of time. That's a great thing to do 1-2 times a week as part of a complex cycle, because the high volume and relatively low intensity lets you heal quickly and increase vascularization and mitochondrial density, all of which help your performance AND recovery. It is also good pre-hab.

To up the intensity you're going to have to increase the load with added weight, so once a week you'd want to work heavier, meaning so heavy that you can only do only 6-7 reps MAX and then do 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps. Aim for 5 reps each set, but always end the set with 1 rep in the bank, so to speak. Until you can do 5x5 with that weight don't increase it. That will be your maximal strength portion.

One other day of the week you may want to look into hopping dips and clapping or kipping chins or pull ups. That will help develop power generation.

It takes the body around 6 weeks, as an average, to generate new muscular tissue. Your body is in a constant state of healing and regeneration, so there will always be something building, but generally you will have noticeable changes every other month or so unless you're taking hormones. Sometimes even from month to month there will be very noticeable differences, but that is more common with fat loss and not muscle building. The scale combined with body fat analysis will show you adding 2-4 lbs per month of muscle if you are performing a perfect hypertrophy program, depending on your diet and your personal genetics. The perfect hypertrophy for YOU may be somewhat different than for me, but there are some basics that pretty much never change. The speed and degree of physical adaptation may be different for you and me, but the way to get there is often fairly similar. Some people need slightly more emphasis on high intensity, and others need more emphasis on high volume, but everyone needs both lower rep, higher intensity work AND higher rep, lower intensity work for optimal results and injury avoidance.

There are very, very few people who can gain faster than what I have posted naturally. I mean seriously less than 10% for sure, and I am thinking even less than that. Beginners don't count. Everyone gains quickly for the first 3-6 months or so. The numbers I post do not include fat gain, which WILL happen. Ideally, your BF percentage stays the same while you're gaining or even drops slightly, but it is really isn't possible to make optimal gains AND actually lose existing body fat naturally. You can absolutely do both, but you have to understand that either the muscle gain OR the BF loss will not be as high as it would be if you focused very specifically on that one goal. Doing both simultaneously tends to be slower going. I have seen a lot of recommendations here in the nutrition forum for getting down into single digit BF before trying to CONCENTRATE on gains. Note that you will STILL gain strength and muscle while focusing on losing that body fat, but the gains will not be anywhere near as good as they will be once you start focusing on muscle gains. The reasons for that recommendation are largely hormonal and enzymatic in nature. The short version is that a lean body tries to stay lean. That body is not well adapted to storing fat and because of this a higher caloric intake, which is necessary for lean mass gains, will not result in as much BF gain as it would in a person who is not considered to be lean. Lean = below 10%. Some say below 8%, but I don't know how important that distinction is. It IS true that the lower your BF the harder it is to gain BF, and as your BF rises it becomes easier and easier to gain BF. There are other factors like inflammation that are made worse by body fat but if you want to learn more about that I suggest you search for info on Google! I don't have the time for that one!

I don't know where you are or what your goals are, but I will say that I have definitely gained weight without training like a body builder. I try to eat a pretty healthy diet and by combing a TON of healthy food with strength training (like FBE) I have gained 20 lbs. When I think of body building I think of someone who is trying to put on size whether or not they are gaining strength. Unless you are already pretty muscular you could probably gain up while building a ton of strength rather than body build. If your goal is to be huge, you should probably body build but if you just want to look strong, the best way IMO is to get strong. (and eat a lot)

By the way, I was not in a hurry and probably only tried to gain about 1 lb per month. I also started our pretty thin and for full disclosure, I will say that I am still thin, but the 20 lbs was definitely enough size that I had to get rid of all my old shirts.

slizzardman said:

Why are you taking 2-3 days off in a row? Is that your weekend, or is that just how your current workouts run?

I'm not, I'm actually pretty disorganized when it comes to that. For the last month or so, I've done one exercise or another every single day. Maybe 3-5 days total I haven't done anything at all. What happens is that sometimes I only do FBE's, and sometimes only statics, but sometimes only 1 or 2 statics, not all of them.

I was asking this because Coach said that one of (or the best) program schemes is to train Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday, taking Wednesday, Saturday and Friday off, that's 3 days, 1 apart and 2 in a row; so that's why I was asking if instead of doing that (taking 1 day off in the middle of the week and then 2 in a row), you could just train in between days, only taking a day off.

slizzardman said:

It sounds like you're doing unweighted dips and chins, is that right?

That's right.

slizzardman said:

If so, what you're doing would be considered density training, because what you're trying to do is fit more work at the same intensity into a given period of time. That's a great thing to do 1-2 times a week as part of a complex cycle, because the high volume and relatively low intensity lets you heal quickly and increase vascularization and mitochondrial density, all of which help your performance AND recovery. It is also good pre-hab.

To up the intensity you're going to have to increase the load with added weight, so once a week you'd want to work heavier, meaning so heavy that you can only do only 6-7 reps MAX and then do 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps. Aim for 5 reps each set, but always end the set with 1 rep in the bank, so to speak. Until you can do 5x5 with that weight don't increase it. That will be your maximal strength portion.

Well, I'm confused again :x

I thought that, with any given exercise, even unweighted, if your max was 8-12 reps, you were training for hypertrophy. Right now my max for pulls/chins (on the rings, I think I do more on a bar) is 10-11 reps unweighted, and for dips 12, also unweighted, so I thought that, since I was training in the 8-12 area, even unweighted, I was training for hypertrophy. So is this wrong?

I definitely need and want a friking weight vest or dip belt! It would be so easy with that, because you can be precise with the weight, and they are comfortable, unlike designing other substitutes.

If I decrease the leverage with any of these 2 exercises, either by doing them in an l-sit or bent leg l-sit, is this the same as adding weight? Will what these exercises work be worked more or will you simply be working abs at the same time but the rest will stay equal?

Deft-Mastery said:

slizzardman said:

Why are you taking 2-3 days off in a row? Is that your weekend, or is that just how your current workouts run?

I'm not, I'm actually pretty disorganized when it comes to that. For the last month or so, I've done one exercise or another every single day. Maybe 3-5 days total I haven't done anything at all. What happens is that sometimes I only do FBE's, and sometimes only statics, but sometimes only 1 or 2 statics, not all of them.

I was asking this because Coach said that one of (or the best) program schemes is to train Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday, taking Wednesday, Saturday and Friday off, that's 3 days, 1 apart and 2 in a row; so that's why I was asking if instead of doing that (taking 1 day off in the middle of the week and then 2 in a row), you could just train in between days, only taking a day off.

Ah. Well, your body NEEDS "off time" to recover. It is not adviseable to actually work hard 6 days a week. For us here, rest days should include joint prehab, stretching, and ideally a low intenslty aerobic session like a 2-5 mile jog/run, NOT at best speed. Active rest is the name of the game, but one day a week really should be nearly total rest. Some light stretching and a bit of walking would be best on that day. You're better off doing multiple sessions on the four days that you work, because your rest time is when your body grows the most. So yes, you really should be taking 3 days off from hard work each week.

Part of why you won't see the best gains with your program is that there is not enough variety. The good thing is that your body will continue to get stronger, but the bad thing is that this will largely come from neurological adaptation and not physical. This may be why your results are sub-par. At the VERY least you need to change up your grips, but realistically you need to be utilizing a wider variety of exercises and having themed days. Pull/chin +dip, rows + fx/xr push ups, CPP and MPPU, that sort of thing. Again, this is why I am so strongly in favor of people getting on the WODs.

slizzardman said:

It sounds like you're doing unweighted dips and chins, is that right?

That's right.

slizzardman said:

If so, what you're doing would be considered density training, because what you're trying to do is fit more work at the same intensity into a given period of time. That's a great thing to do 1-2 times a week as part of a complex cycle, because the high volume and relatively low intensity lets you heal quickly and increase vascularization and mitochondrial density, all of which help your performance AND recovery. It is also good pre-hab.

To up the intensity you're going to have to increase the load with added weight, so once a week you'd want to work heavier, meaning so heavy that you can only do only 6-7 reps MAX and then do 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps. Aim for 5 reps each set, but always end the set with 1 rep in the bank, so to speak. Until you can do 5x5 with that weight don't increase it. That will be your maximal strength portion.

Well, I'm confused again :x

I thought that, with any given exercise, even unweighted, if your max was 8-12 reps, you were training for hypertrophy. Right now my max for pulls/chins (on the rings, I think I do more on a bar) is 10-11 reps unweighted, and for dips 12, also unweighted, so I thought that, since I was training in the 8-12 area, even unweighted, I was training for hypertrophy. So is this wrong?

Your workout design has way too much volume and doesn't have nearly enough rest for significant hypertrophy to take place in a reasonable time frame, for one thing, and because you are ignoring the strength development aspect you are not getting enough stimulus variety and you are not building your strength as much as you should be. The stronger you get, the more weight you can do those higher reps with. The more weight you can do higher reps with, the bigger you get. You know why I'm the size I am? I used to be able to do 40-50 reps of 100 lb weighted dips. I was actually a lot bigger in the chest and arms then, and for good reason: my body needed both the extra contractile tissue AND the extra sugar storage. If all I had done was do sets of 50 bw dips I'd have never gotten as big, at least nowhere near as quickly.

I definitely need and want a friking weight vest or dip belt! It would be so easy with that, because you can be precise with the weight, and they are comfortable, unlike designing other substitutes.

If I decrease the leverage with any of these 2 exercises, either by doing them in an l-sit or bent leg l-sit, is this the same as adding weight? Will what these exercises work be worked more or will you simply be working abs at the same time but the rest will stay equal?

Just start strapping on weight. You can literally take two sand bags , make duct tape shoulder straps between them (and even use nylon straps under the duct tape if you really want to be sure it will stay put and not tear), and then fill them with however much sand you need. That's a really cheap, really easy way to get up to a 100 lb weighted vest on the cheap. If you want it to be adjustable just start filling ziplock bags with the sand and tossing them in. Just figure out how much sand goes in 1 lb, more or less. You can do that with a digital scale. Step on, weigh yourself a few times so you know it's accurate. Now grab a 1 gallon ziplock and put sand in it. Weigh again holding the bag. When you're 1 lb heavier measure the sand in a measuring cup. Voila! You now know exactly how much sand to put in each bag for perfect adjustability, more or less. That's what I would do if I didn't have my vest, and I will probably do this at my GF's place so that I don't need to drag my good vest everywhere.

slizzardman said:

Ah. Well, your body NEEDS "off time" to recover. It is not adviseable to actually work hard 6 days a week. For us here, rest days should include joint prehab, stretching, and ideally a low intenslty aerobic session like a 2-5 mile jog/run, NOT at best speed. Active rest is the name of the game, but one day a week really should be nearly total rest. Some light stretching and a bit of walking would be best on that day. You're better off doing multiple sessions on the four days that you work, because your rest time is when your body grows the most. So yes, you really should be taking 3 days off from hard work each week.

Ok. But can you also take 3 days off doing nothing at all, or do you absolutely have to at least do something light on these days? I'm going to take wednesday, saturday and sunday now for real, like Coach's program. I've never done this but now I will. I'm actually starting to see some gains by resting now.

slizzardman said:

Part of why you won't see the best gains with your program is that there is not enough variety. The good thing is that your body will continue to get stronger, but the bad thing is that this will largely come from neurological adaptation and not physical. This may be why your results are sub-par. At the VERY least you need to change up your grips, but realistically you need to be utilizing a wider variety of exercises and having themed days. Pull/chin +dip, rows + fx/xr push ups, CPP and MPPU, that sort of thing. Again, this is why I am so strongly in favor of people getting on the WODs.

I have changed the grips, I think what's going on is that maybe I'm not doing enough workouts. I don't think simply the 1 workout of 6 sets each day will do much, but you're right I'm not varying at all with other exercises. That's why I said it's been very disorganized right now.

slizzardman said:

Your workout design has way too much volume and doesn't have nearly enough rest for significant hypertrophy to take place in a reasonable time frame, for one thing, and because you are ignoring the strength development aspect you are not getting enough stimulus variety and you are not building your strength as much as you should be. The stronger you get, the more weight you can do those higher reps with. The more weight you can do higher reps with, the bigger you get. You know why I'm the size I am? I used to be able to do 40-50 reps of 100 lb weighted dips. I was actually a lot bigger in the chest and arms then, and for good reason: my body needed both the extra contractile tissue AND the extra sugar storage. If all I had done was do sets of 50 bw dips I'd have never gotten as big, at least nowhere near as quickly.

1- Why does it have too much volume you say? I'm not doing more than 12 reps each set. I heard Arnold was a "volume" bodybuilder, that sometimes or somedays he did like 20-22 sets :shock:

2- What do you mean by "doesn't have nearly enough rest for significant hypertrophy to take place in a reasonable time frame"?

3- You're right about the strength one...

slizzardman said:

Just start strapping on weight. You can literally take two sand bags , make duct tape shoulder straps between them (and even use nylon straps under the duct tape if you really want to be sure it will stay put and not tear), and then fill them with however much sand you need. That's a really cheap, really easy way to get up to a 100 lb weighted vest on the cheap. If you want it to be adjustable just start filling ziplock bags with the sand and tossing them in. Just figure out how much sand goes in 1 lb, more or less. You can do that with a digital scale. Step on, weigh yourself a few times so you know it's accurate. Now grab a 1 gallon ziplock and put sand in it. Weigh again holding the bag. When you're 1 lb heavier measure the sand in a measuring cup. Voila! You now know exactly how much sand to put in each bag for perfect adjustability, more or less. That's what I would do if I didn't have my vest, and I will probably do this at my GF's place so that I don't need to drag my good vest everywhere.

I'll see what I do. That's a really good idea by the way.

P.S. which FBE's do you think are best for biceps?

Deft-Mastery said:

Ok. But can you also take 3 days off doing nothing at all, or do you absolutely have to at least do something light on these days? I'm going to take wednesday, saturday and sunday now for real, like Coach's program. I've never done this but now I will. I'm actually starting to see some gains by resting now.

You don't HAVE to do something, but it seems to help quite a lot. The trick is to not do anything hard and to not do a lot of volume.

You may very well gain a good 3-5 lbs of mostly muscle over the next few weeks JUST from letting your body recover more. Recovery is the most important part of a workout cycle. If you notice, there are entire weeks in the WOD cycle where we do almost nothing for the upper body besides warm up and FSP work, because a lot of the leg stuff is together. This allows our upper bodies to recover while we work other stuff hard.

I have changed the grips, I think what's going on is that maybe I'm not doing enough workouts. I don't think simply the 1 workout of 6 sets each day will do much, but you're right I'm not varying at all with other exercises. That's why I said it's been very disorganized right now.

That's ok! The most important thing is to do SOMETHING. It is amazing how much strength you can gain just by being consistent.

slizzardman said:

Your workout design has way too much volume and doesn't have nearly enough rest for significant hypertrophy to take place in a reasonable time frame, for one thing, and because you are ignoring the strength development aspect you are not getting enough stimulus variety and you are not building your strength as much as you should be. The stronger you get, the more weight you can do those higher reps with. The more weight you can do higher reps with, the bigger you get. You know why I'm the size I am? I used to be able to do 40-50 reps of 100 lb weighted dips. I was actually a lot bigger in the chest and arms then, and for good reason: my body needed both the extra contractile tissue AND the extra sugar storage. If all I had done was do sets of 50 bw dips I'd have never gotten as big, at least nowhere near as quickly.

1- Why does it have too much volume you say? I'm not doing more than 12 reps each set. I heard Arnold was a "volume" bodybuilder, that sometimes or somedays he did like 20-22 sets :shock:

2- What do you mean by "doesn't have nearly enough rest for significant hypertrophy to take place in a reasonable time frame"?

3- You're right about the strength one...[/quote}

1) This is pretty basic. I don't mean like "hey man, you should know this, it's BASIC! Like PH 14!" I mean basic as in this concept is a fundamental part of designing a successful routine. You're hitting the same muscles over and over again, and they aren't getting enough of a break to repair themselves completely, much less grow new tissue. It's only natural that this keeps you from building muscle.

Arnold is a bad example to use for a number of reasons. For one thing, he took steroids his entire career, just like every other bodybuilder. Watch "Pumping Iron" and you will see, it was all legal until 1993. They weren't doing anything wrong and they went to the doctors, REAL doctors, who carefully monitered what they did. They were practically clean compared to some of the guys today but then that's why everyone today is so massively enormous. More drugs and better drugs.

The other reason Arnold is a bad example is that he let each muscle group rest for an entire week, as opposed to your 4-6 workouts per week with the same muscles. This is common practice with bodybuilders, because it works. When you're trying to get big and strength isn't your priority it seems that for most people the best thing to do is to absolutely demolish the muscle groups you're working and then give them forever to recover. Again, drugs help a LOT. Natural bodybuilders, the real ones not the fakers, have to be much more intelligent in their programming, and even then you're looking at a bit of genetic elitism.

slizzardman said:

Just start strapping on weight. You can literally take two sand bags , make duct tape shoulder straps between them (and even use nylon straps under the duct tape if you really want to be sure it will stay put and not tear), and then fill them with however much sand you need. That's a really cheap, really easy way to get up to a 100 lb weighted vest on the cheap. If you want it to be adjustable just start filling ziplock bags with the sand and tossing them in. Just figure out how much sand goes in 1 lb, more or less. You can do that with a digital scale. Step on, weigh yourself a few times so you know it's accurate. Now grab a 1 gallon ziplock and put sand in it. Weigh again holding the bag. When you're 1 lb heavier measure the sand in a measuring cup. Voila! You now know exactly how much sand to put in each bag for perfect adjustability, more or less. That's what I would do if I didn't have my vest, and I will probably do this at my GF's place so that I don't need to drag my good vest everywhere.

I'll see what I do. That's a really good idea by the way.

P.S. which FBE's do you think are best for biceps?

Close grip and parallel grip chin ups. No question. There's one more, and I'll show it on my next WOD video. I'm behind so I'll be doing a few WODs tomorrow. Don't worry, I've had PLENTY of rest.

slizzardman said:

You don't HAVE to do something, but it seems to help quite a lot. The trick is to not do anything hard and to not do a lot of volume.

You may very well gain a good 3-5 lbs of mostly muscle over the next few weeks JUST from letting your body recover more. Recovery is the most important part of a workout cycle. If you notice, there are entire weeks in the WOD cycle where we do almost nothing for the upper body besides warm up and FSP work, because a lot of the leg stuff is together. This allows our upper bodies to recover while we work other stuff hard.

Ok.

slizzardman said:

That's ok! The most important thing is to do SOMETHING. It is amazing how much strength you can gain just by being consistent.

1) This is pretty basic. I don't mean like "hey man, you should know this, it's BASIC! Like PH 14!" I mean basic as in this concept is a fundamental part of designing a successful routine. You're hitting the same muscles over and over again, and they aren't getting enough of a break to repair themselves completely, much less grow new tissue. It's only natural that this keeps you from building muscle.

Ok. So the 3 days off from Coach's program (we, sat, sun) should be enough to recover you think?

Right now I've been forced to not do any exercise at all for 1 week, since yesterday Friday 10 to next Friday the 17th. But I'll see if I can start exercising by at least tuesday or wednesday, right now I certainly can't.

slizzardman said:

Arnold is a bad example to use for a number of reasons. For one thing, he took steroids his entire career, just like every other bodybuilder. Watch "Pumping Iron" and you will see, it was all legal until 1993. They weren't doing anything wrong and they went to the doctors, REAL doctors, who carefully monitered what they did. They were practically clean compared to some of the guys today but then that's why everyone today is so massively enormous. More drugs and better drugs.

The other reason Arnold is a bad example is that he let each muscle group rest for an entire week, as opposed to your 4-6 workouts per week with the same muscles. This is common practice with bodybuilders, because it works. When you're trying to get big and strength isn't your priority it seems that for most people the best thing to do is to absolutely demolish the muscle groups you're working and then give them forever to recover. Again, drugs help a LOT. Natural bodybuilders, the real ones not the fakers, have to be much more intelligent in their programming, and even then you're looking at a bit of genetic elitism.

Hmm, I thought he never took roids...nevermind.

slizzardman said:

P.S. which FBE's do you think are best for biceps?

Close grip and parallel grip chin ups. No question. There's one more, and I'll show it on my next WOD video. I'm behind so I'll be doing a few WODs tomorrow. Don't worry, I've had PLENTY of rest.

Really? Close grip and palms facing each other chinups? Somehow I think chinups don't work the biceps for **** lol, it seems you just can't replicate the curling motion you do with barbells/dumbbells. I also heard that shoulder width/little wider than shoulder width grip chins worked the biceps more than a close grip. Had you ever heard of that?

I honestly haven't messed with chins wider than shoulders, because that starts to twist things in ways that feel violating to me. But, based on the forearm rotation, yes there would be more biceps activation at the top of the movement. You can do bicep curls from the bottom of an XR body row, using your body angle to adjust the difficulty. This is very, very biceps specific. You are working your hardest at the top of the movement, unlike everything else including chin ups and BB/DB biceps curls.

Try and remember that Arnold, Franco Columbo, Lou Ferrigno and the other top guys of their time were incredibly hard-working AND genetically gifted. Drugs don't make you look like that all by themselves. They are actually good role models in the sense that they worked their butts off all day, I mean Arnold and Franco worked together as bricklayers. That's hard work, in the sun. Then after ALL that they were in the gym 5-6 days a week. That's serious dedication.

slizzardman said:

I honestly haven't messed with chins wider than shoulders, because that starts to twist things in ways that feel violating to me. But, based on the forearm rotation, yes there would be more biceps activation at the top of the movement. You can do bicep curls from the bottom of an XR body row, using your body angle to adjust the difficulty. This is very, very biceps specific. You are working your hardest at the top of the movement, unlike everything else including chin ups and BB/DB biceps curls.

Try and remember that Arnold, Franco Columbo, Lou Ferrigno and the other top guys of their time were incredibly hard-working AND genetically gifted. Drugs don't make you look like that all by themselves. They are actually good role models in the sense that they worked their butts off all day, I mean Arnold and Franco worked together as bricklayers. That's hard work, in the sun. Then after ALL that they were in the gym 5-6 days a week. That's serious dedication.

Arnold did not lay brick although he was a founder in a brick laying company. But still a role model for working hard to achieve your dreams. The man has done pretty much everything he has wanted to. Only step left is the presidency

slizzardman said:

I honestly haven't messed with chins wider than shoulders, because that starts to twist things in ways that feel violating to me. But, based on the forearm rotation, yes there would be more biceps activation at the top of the movement. You can do bicep curls from the bottom of an XR body row, using your body angle to adjust the difficulty. This is very, very biceps specific. You are working your hardest at the top of the movement, unlike everything else including chin ups and BB/DB biceps curls.

Is this the one you're talking about?

I also wanted to ask you again if doing the chins and dips in a bent l-sit would be the same as adding weight? Or would you just also work your abs but all else will be worked the same?

I thought that he started off laying bricks! AH, it appears that Franco actually laid most of the bricks. He just started the company and grew it along with a few other guys from the gym. Very enterprising!

Deft: No, that is a row. Start from there with straight arms and then turn your palms towards your face. Now touch your face with your knuckles like you are trying to rub your eyes. You should be able to touch your forehead. Try it, you'll see how insanely hard that gets.

As for the L-chins, that does make it a little harder and as soon as possible it would be good to do most of your pull ups and chin ups in the L position, but to REALLY get stronger you're going to need to add weight.

slizzardman said:

Deft: No, that is a row. Start from there with straight arms and then turn your palms towards your face. Now touch your face with your knuckles like you are trying to rub your eyes. You should be able to touch your forehead. Try it, you'll see how insanely hard that gets.

So you're saying to do XR elevated rows with a chinup grip? Is that it? The picture I put is obviously a pullup grip.

Or are you talking about inverted curls or something like that?

I don't really get it when you say to first get in a chinup grip, and then to touch your face with your knuckles. How do you do that? I mean I have an idea in my head but I don't know if that's what you mean.

slizzardman said:

As for the L-chins, that does make it a little harder and as soon as possible it would be good to do most of your pull ups and chin ups in the L position, but to REALLY get stronger you're going to need to add weight.

Ok.

Something else: since the statics aren't your "main" workout and you don't train them intensely and so forth, and well since you don't do a "workout" with them (except until you can do tucked pushups and the final versions and stuff), do you really need to take 3 days off from them during the week? Can't you do them everyday? At least everything up to the advanced tucked ones?

Take the time off from the statics as well. You need the rest.

I will have to shoot a video for what I am describing. I think it will open some eyes. To me, "get in a body row position with a chin up grip and touch your forehead with your knuckles" means you do a bicep curl there, I mean there's really only one way to do that while maintaining a straight body.

slizzardman said:

Take the time off from the statics as well. You need the rest.

Will do.

slizzardman said:

I will have to shoot a video for what I am describing. I think it will open some eyes. To me, "get in a body row position with a chin up grip and touch your forehead with your knuckles" means you do a bicep curl there, I mean there's really only one way to do that while maintaining a straight body.

Ok.

By the way, how do you think Hitman is so muscular? I mean he does some things that probably shouldn't give that much muscle, like regular pushups on the floor, regular dips, pulls chins, etc. and I don't get how he's so muscular.

Of course he does the PL and PL pushups and HeSPU's and FL and MU's and the pressess etc., is that it?