Shoulder pain

[Troy Rodriguez]

Hey guys!

I am wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction for the issue I am having with my shoulder. I can't narrow it down to one thing or another but here is a picture.

The pain is on the Trap side of the "knob". I have no pain in my shoulder nor any ROM issues. I experience more pain when doing things such as pull-ups. Chin-ups do not bother me. I was wondering if it was just a stretching issue.

Some other things maybe necessary to know.

1. I am right handed and have played an enourmous range of sports including fencing, martial arts, cheer, football, etc.

2. I do hold my iPhone between my ear and right shoulder a lot when I am doing something else.

3. I hold my work phone (desk job) against my ear and that knob also.

4. I do "some" gymnastics. Simple front/back handsprings, front/back tucks, and all precursors. no twisting yet.

Hopefully that is enough info. If not, ask away...I would rather make sure I am not doing any permanent damage to anything so I can continue on my training.

[Cole Dano]

That's part of your Acromioclavicular (AC) joint. This kind of pain is one to ABSOLUTELY avoid. If it causes pain there, don't do it, time is the only thing that helps. If its a fresh pain it can go away pretty quick sometimes, but as with any joint be patient and careful.

With out seeing your body mechanics its hard to say why its there. But try to notice things you do that put stress there. The pain will make it more obvious, so learn from it, and if need be change how you use you shoulders.

You can find a fair amount online if you are interested.

[Troy Rodriguez]

Ouch this might mean no more of a lot of things. It seems like it hurts after anything that requires me to fully extend my arms and flex my traps/scaps. So even L-sit or XR Support hold would be a no no?! What the Heck am I going to do!! :shock:

Ok but really thanks for some info. I had thought it might be that but I also thought it might be a subacromial bursa issue. Yuck that's terrible news. :?

[Cole Dano]

The bursa would present at the side of the shoulder, but the Rx would be the same.

As always with internet doctoring, if there is someone you can see in person its always better. We can give some general advice, but the specifics of what you should do are beyond the scope of a forum.

[Joshua Naterman]

So true!

The most common cause of AC pain, which is what you have, is "bench press shoulders" or rounded shoulders. You may not realize it, but you probably have a massive imbalance between both strength and flexibility in your internal and external shoulder rotators, and probably the scapular retractors as well.

You need to do what everyone else has said so far and stop doing things that make it hurt, and start working on making it better. The first thing you need to do is tale 7-10 days of complete rest. Google search and read about anti-inflammatory diets. The basics are lots of veggies, lots of fish oil (10-15 grams per day, but you should probably start around 5 and up it a gram per day or two days, just so your body can get used to it), meat, and as few refined foods as possible. Ideally there would be NONE.

The fish oil IS VERY IMPORTANT because it is a powerful anti-inflammatoy for the whole body. It is not the same as OTC or prescription drugs.

You will also benefit from alternating ice and heat in the area, always ending with cold. 10 minutes of hot, 15-20 of cold, and alternate for as long as your schedule allows. An hour would be geat. ALWAYS end with the ice! Alternating heat nd ice pumps blood through the area without aggravating the joint. You need to ice and heat the entire region, not just the spot with pain. Your shoulderblade, shoulder, and upper chest should all be iced and heated together.

After 7-10 days of complete layoff with the good diet and ice/heat treatment, you shoud be feeling pretty good. Let me tell you something. If you even TRY to work out you will fuck your shit right back up. You are NOT HEALED. You just FEEL better.

Now it's time to continue the treatments and add in proper stretching. You need anterior capsule stretches, in particular, and overall shoulder capsule stretching in general. THese stretch everything that attaches to the shoulder capsule: The pecs, deltoids, biceps, triceps, traps, and the other scapular musces and external rotators.

Supine anterior capsule stretch: Lay on your stomach with arms out to the sides, like a cross. Roll to your right, so that your right arm is behind you. Try to touch your right hand behind your back with your left arm. You should be retracting the scapula and trying to externally rotate your right arm at the same time. Do this at 45 degrees below the orignal positon and 45 degrees above. These all emphasize different muscles and you'll feel the difference. I suggest starting at 45 degrees below, then go to the cross(90 degrees) and finally to 45 degrees above. All should be done wih completely straight stretched arm. I find that dion this near a wall while facing the wall allows me to push off of the wall with my nonstretched arm, which lets me get a better stretch and is easier and more comfortable.

Lying posterior capsule stretch: There are tons of videos on youtube, but there is one "most right" way. With the upper arm or your right arm 45 degrees away from your hips, lying on your right side, point your dfingers to the ceiling. You should be facing the wall. Now, with your left(top) arm grap your right hand and pull the pal towards the ground until you feel a slight stretch. When you feel this stretch, maintain that arm position and roll SLOWLY on top of your arm. You won't get anywhere near flat, but you'll feel the stretch in the rear of your shoulder almost right away.

Hold all of those for 30-60s, and do them at least once a day, pretty much every day. You really shouldn't be doing anything more than that with your upper body for a month or two once you can start stretching.

This injury WILL take you 4-6 months to 100% recover from. You WILL feel fully recovered before that, but you will not be. Once you're fully recoverd make sure you make these stretches part ofyour daily routine. I'd do the long holds AFTER the workout, and 10s holds during the warm up.

In th meantime, concentrate on core strength and leg strength and power!

[Joshua Naterman]

I want to make SURE you understand that what I have told you may not suit your problem. It is just a very basic treatment for the MOST COMMON AC issues.

If this DOES start helping, after a month of the stretches and good diet start working on your scapula and external rotation first. Do this for a full month before SLOWLY starting to work back in to your routine.

Your exercise routine is clearly unbalanced, because if it wasn't you wouldn't have the problems you have. You need to start with changing your posture. The book "Pain Free" by Pete Egoscue is probably the best book on this subject that I am aware of. It's like 10 bucks, very accessible, and will live up to its title. You also should start following the GB Wods, because they will help keep you balanced. At least once a week, you need to do dedicated external rotation. The stretching should be every workout day once you're fully recovered, and you should be doing all 6 statics as warm up before WODs. All of this will not only get you strong faster than you believe possible, it will keep you safe and uninjured in the process. FInally, your warm up should have shoulder pre-hab in it. The most basic pre-hab you can do is shrugging. I have a video that has yet to be published, which I made right before the seminars. I'll get it up soon on my youtube. I'd check nce a week until you see it. That will help you a bundle!

Once you start the WODS(or your own routine, but I HIGHLY suggest you stick with the wods, they are more complete and balanced than anything I or anyone else has come up with, and some of us are quite good at making workouts) you should intentionally take 2 months to slowly work back up to what you believe to be your real strength level. Intentionally start out one or two progressions easier than you think you can do, and slowly go up one a month. Don't push yourself, recovery takes time and can be undone quickly.

I think that's the best advice you'll get, so get on it and good luck!

[Joshua Naterman]

Oh yea, if you go more than a month without steady reduction of symptoms and you're following the program, go see a sports medicine doctor who works with pro athletes ASAP.

[Troy Rodriguez]

OMG! I just gave this a quick read and I can tell i need some time to fully absorb all you had to say. What I got so far is...STOP. I'll read again tonight when I get home and post up any questions I have on this info. Again you guys are a great wealth of information. This has to be one of the most beneficial forums I have been involved in.

Thanks!

[Troy Rodriguez]

Ok finally got a chance to go through all of you post in detail and I have a few questions.

1. What is the difference between Omega 3 Oil and Fish Oil?

2. Is there a brand I can buy locally at a box store? GNR, Walgreens, etc?

3. Should I use any Ibuprophin or such during the 7-10 days?

4. Can I start those stretches now?

5. According to qN6LnYMwS3Y I do not have tight Posterior capsule. Should I stretch it anyway?

6. Can I still do L-Sit training? Handstands? Scapular stabilization exercises? Any FSPs? HLL?

I just am not sure what to do for so long. I have been working out for a long time and that long off makes me cringe.

[Joshua Naterman]

Ok finally got a chance to go through all of you post in detail and I have a few questions.

1. What is the difference between Omega 3 Oil and Fish Oil?

2. Is there a brand I can buy locally at a box store? GNR, Walgreens, etc?

3. Should I use any Ibuprophin or such during the 7-10 days?

4. Can I start those stretches now?

5. According to qN6LnYMwS3Y I do not have tight Posterior capsule. Should I stretch it anyway?

6. Can I still do L-Sit training? Handstands? Scapular stabilization exercises? Any FSPs? HLL?

I just am not sure what to do for so long. I have been working out for a long time and that long off makes me cringe.

1. You want EPA and DHA, specifically. There are lots of omega-3 fats, but those two are the most important for this situation, specifically EPA. Every gram of oil should have a total of 300mg of those two added together, minimum. If it doesn't have that, it's shit and you shouldn't buy it. So make sure and check labels. Search for "toxic fish oil supplements" and "fish oil lawsuit" on google and read the results. Don't buy from any company mentioned! Write them all down and take them with you. You'll need to check labels carefully.

2. Read and follow advice from #1 and then go shopping. There will be something local.

3. If you like! It won't hurt, but you don't want to take them for long periods of time. 2 weeks is really as long as you should go without taking at least a week off. They make your tendons weak. That's bad lol!

4. Wait. Your shoulder is inflamed whether you realize it or not. Do the hot/cold protocols. If you are too lazy to do that, just do ice for 20 min on, 10-15 off as many times as you can. If you are too lazy for that, you deserve all the problems your shoulder can throw at you.

5. You should stretch it, but not super hard. Just maintain. Use the stretch I described, not what is in that video. Like I said, you almost CERTAINLY have a problem with both strength balance and flexibility balance, and your anterior capsule is far tighter AND stronger than posterior, so while you SHOULD maintain your flexibility you should NOT make the imbalance worse. You need posterior strengthening and anterior stretching to be your priorities, once you're through the rest period.

6. I'd say nothing for a week. You don't understand, it seems, that any work involving the shoulder will aggravate your condtion. If you can't do this, you will stay injured and you will deserve it, and I will have no pity for you, only laughter. I have had to do the exact same thing, so I am telling you to do exactly what I did. I'm getting much better. If you don't want to get better, that's fine with me, but don't keep asking questions just because you aren't happy with the answers.

I know, some of that might aggravate you, so try to keep in mind that the purpose of my words is not to accuse you of being lazy, or anything else. I just want to make sure you understand my position and how I handle people who ask questions, get good answers, and then just ask more questions trying to get around things. I don't play that @#. I like self motivated people who suck it up and get the job done right, whatever it is.

I know, you'll be going crazy. I did too, man. It will pass, I promise. You can STILL use your legs! Jumps, SLS, GHR, back extensions, hollow holds, etc are still totally fine. This is not "don't exercise at all!" week, it's just "don't use your shoulders" week. Not even for easy stuff. It really is that important.

If you follow the plan, there is a very high chance that you will be feeling much, much better in a month. You will not lose very much strength, and it won't matter that you lose some because if you don't want to end up right back here again you'll take 2-4 months to slowly ramp your training, now re-balanced(if you don't make your training balanced you are doomed to injury), because it takes a long time for these things to truly heal. You have to basically make a 4-6 month plan, in advance, and stick to it. Start easier than you think is right, and slowly progress on a strict schedule. Ask Coach if you think he'll tell you any different, you'll get the same thing. You have to focus on rest, then recovery, then slowly getting back into the swing of things.

Be smart, my friend! This is an opportunity for you to truly fix your training and make this the last injury of its kind that you ever get.

[Troy Rodriguez]

Haha...I don't take offense to anything you have said. I am exactly the same and i will do as prescribed, hating it, and loving the results. Yeah i'm frustrated...I just bought my rings yesterday, finally found an amazing forum of helpful people, and a great workout built for excellence...and can't use it for a while. :roll:

Oh well, again thanks. This gives me a great amount of timt to (as you said) work core legs and my flexibility which is severely lacking in my legs. Time to refocus, get better, and THEN do the program. Gotcha! Again thanks. :wink:

[Cole Dano]

So nice when folks listen! Heal up taenkarth!

[Joshua Naterman]

Hell yea man! You're going to do great. Just really be good to those shoulders!

[Troy Rodriguez]

Ok Slizz I read the book in it's entirety and I have to say wow...So easy information but we just don't think about it much in todays society.

Since reading I have recommended it to a few of my friends and my mother. I am also working nightly with one of my neighbors daughters to correct an issue she has had since birth and am making amazing progress with her just using those egoscue principles.

Example - Last night did the Groin stretch on left side and when attempting the Thigh test it was at the top by hip flexor after 30 seconds. Switched Sides and BAMM...Thigh test has pain at the knee which this leg also (her mom told me afterward) gives her the most trouble and she drags it alot. They are excited to see the progress and I just wanted to give a big thanks for pointing me and others in the direction of these types of methods.

BTW getting down 10g of Fish Oil a day is a process...especially since mine are only like 740mg per two...

[Joshua Naterman]

You are VERY welcome! I am glad to see someone has actually taken the small amount of time to check the book out! It really is brilliant and simple, and amazingly effective.

I am glad you are able to help some of the people around you with this! Please keep us, or at least me, posted on how things go!