Prerequisites?

[Joshua Naterman]

I do have some questions about dead hangs.

1) should i fully straighten my arms or just let them hang?

2) should i let my body relax or be in a hollow position

3) should my shoulders totally relax and touch my ears or should i press them down?

so long

The arms will be plenty straight if you are hanging there with arms shoulder width.

I stay hollow but this requires a bit more scapular mobility as you have to squeeze the upper traps to pull the shoulder blades up and back a little. At first this was really hard but now it's just the norm.

[Ralph Palutke]

Thx guys!!

[Mikyewicz]

Hi guys,

I have a question about Hollow hold:

Should my back be rounded like a "banana", so only lower back is touching a ground (butt elevated)?

or

just push my lower back flat on the ground? (but keep everything tight)

Thank you for your help!

[Blairbob]

For the hollow hold, your lower back should press into the floor. To take away the natural arch of your lower back, you will have to lift your toes off the floor a bit. Squeeze your glutes.

Whether you choose to pick the shoulder blades off the floor is a debated question. Most generally think a "hollow" body has the shoulder blades pulled off the floor. It makes the abs contract harder. Fun times.

[Mikyewicz]

So lower back pressed into the floor Thank you Blairbob! Now it makes sense why I had such a hard time with it.

[Coach Sommer]

Whether you choose to pick the shoulder blades off the floor is a debated question.

There is no debate; pick the shoulder blades up.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Blairbob]

For a "hollow" on floor, that is the general drill I would agree.

However at times, various coaches (Elite coaches mind you) may differ in opinion of what they want. They may just want the pelvic tilt and hips under without the rounded shoulders. That floor position has carryover to what is considered "hollow" on apparatus but it may not be what is desired to be replicated in a Handstand per say. All that is desired in the Handstand by some coaches may just be the pelvic tilt. Lifting the shoulders off the floor, sort of a pseudo ab crunch.

We end up getting super hollow and straight hollow. Hollow with the"Mad Cat" rounded shoulders say in plank or just a straight body plank.

For the "hollow-ness" of a HS, a better drill is the belly button lift while laying prone face towards the floor. Not as difficult as the floor Hollow for "body-shaping" though.

[Martin Majer]

And when I am able to do all prereqs comfortably for 3x1 minute, should I still keep them in the warm-up? Or should I replace them with harder exercises (Planche Leans, XR Support, German Hangs,... like in the Complete Warmup Thread) as a warmup for my FSPs (FL, BL, PL, L-Sit)?

[Cole Dano]

Keeping them up is a good idea, but you only need to do one set.

[Blairbob]

Maintenance set.

Don't be a Warm-Up hero. It's a warmup.

[Riku Calderón]

I did read the whole tread but i did miss or it didn't  answer this.

 

When you finally can do the 3 round do you only rest between a round, between reps or not at all?

 

Or do you drop the one that reaches 3 round level on maintenance stage when the 3 round is up. And start to do the more complex one at that part?

[Mitchell Rabushka]

I can do a hollow hold on the floor where my lower back presses against the floor when I breath in, but it doesn't press against the floor when I exhale.  Should I be able to press my lower back against the floor even after exhaling to do it properly?

 

Also, I do all 6 pre-FSP's for 3x30sec (except dip hold which I can do 3x60sec).  How long could it take to reach 3x60sec for the pre-FSP's and can I start the FSP's yet or does Coach still recommend achieving 3x60sec for the pre-FSP's before attempting the FSP's?

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

You will need to learn a shallower breathing pattern that you will also need to hold many other positions.

That will come.

[Mitchell Rabushka]

FredInChina,

 

Thank you for your reply.  And do I still need to do all 6 pre-FSP for 3x60sec before starting the FSP's?  How long could it take me to go from my current 3x30sec up to 3x60sec for the 6 pre-FSP's?

 

What if I can work up to 1x60sec, but the other 2 sets fall short of 60sec.  Is that good enough to start the FSP's?  Growing impatient w/ the pre-FSP's...

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

Growing impatient w/ the pre-FSP's...

I think you've just qualified for the "Injury Watch List"... 

Patience takes time!

[Mitchell Rabushka]

FredInChina, Thank you for the reply.

 

I've been doing the 6 pre-FSP's since the beginning of June 2012 so it's been about 7 mo's and I'm only up to 3x30sec (primarily on the reverse plank and superman) and I'm not getting any younger; hence the impatience.  I'm currently supersetting the plank with the reverse plank, then I superset the hollow with the superman and finally the dip hold with the chinup hang.  I'm probably ready to bump up the times in all except the reverse plank and superman.

 

What is the best strategy for bumping up the times?

[Mitchell Rabushka]

ewethestuff, Thank you for your reply.

 

How do I find the WOD that shows the postings of your time intervals.

 

Also, you mention you are doing other things "First press handstand, first multiple slow muscle ups, first hanging leg lift, etc etc" while working the 6 pre-FSP's.  How did you pick these other exercises?  Are any of them designed to help with the FSP's once you start them?

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

Very welcome

What is the best strategy for bumping up the times?

I'd go by the book here: at the end of your SSC, you take your max times on each static, divided by 2 gives you the set time. 

60 seconds divided by that number gives you the number of sets.

 

When you are at 60 sec work time, you need to build up to 3x60sec on each hold, then keep it for a complete 8-12 weeks cycle.

 

After that, you can go into maintenance mode with 1x60 sec per exercise as a warm up.

 

There are some tweaks and possibly shortcuts that have been posted at times on the forum, but I cannot comment on these.

 

 

Age + Impatience is a recipe for disaster... you don't have much time to waste 2 years in rehab! 

[Mitchell Rabushka]

FredInChina,

 

Thanks for the formula.

 

I see I have been doing too much with 3x30sec for each of the 6 pre-FSP's.  I thought I s/be doing at least 3 sets of each hold.  I will re-test my max for each one and use your formula for the next 8-12 weeks.

 

When one has a strategy to make it to the top then impatience evaporates  I'll chime in if I  hit a wall or when I reach 1 set of 60sec with this strategy.

 

One last question.  Is 2 to 4 times / week ok to steadily build up the times? Thanks again.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

Yes, 2 to 4 times a week is fine... 

You'll have to go by the seat of the pants to determine what is your present work capacity, then slowly build from there.

[Mitchell Rabushka]

Great, thank you

[Mitchell Rabushka]

Hello FredInChina,

 

I need your expertise.  I just retested my maxes for the 6 pre-FSP's and here they are:

 

2x60sec - Plank (I keep everything tight and pull my knee caps up to my thighs)

2x60sec - Reverse Plank (I started shaking a little the last 15sec of each set, but did not drop)

2x45sec - Hollow Hold (I breathe more shallow like you recommended...thank you, that helps a lot.  I stopped the Hold when I could not keep my lower back to the floor)

2x30sec - Superman (This one I obviously suck at)

2x60sec - Top of Dip Hold

2x60sec - Chin Up Hang Hold

 

I performed one set of each in the order listed above and since I was testing my maxes (up to 60sec / Hold) I rested about 3 minutes between the Holds, then re-cycled through them a second time which is why you see 2 sets for each.

 

Here's what I need to know to help me get to 3x60sec for each:

 

1.  When working my SSC is it OK to do my sets by doing one set of each like I did, then cycling through each one again until I hit my desired sets?

 

2.  How long can I rest in between each set?

 

3.  After hitting a Hold for 60sec, do I work on the next 60sec (the 2nd set) using the same formula you gave me for the first 60sec?

 

4.  Lastly, my Superman sucks.  Do you know of any supplementary exercises (maybe reverse hyperextesions?) to get me stronger at the Superman?

 

Thank you for your help.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

haha, first, I am far from an expert in comparison to many others on the forum... Let's call me an apprentice

I am scratching my head trying to figure how you (or anyone) can pull your kneecaps to your thighs

 

It seems like you are ready for 3x30s on most holds; maybe more, someone will chime in with more details.

You can superset them, in that case you only need the time to change position to rest, and take 1-2 min between supersets if you need to.

Or you can do all 3 sets in a row, with maybe 20 or 30 s rest in between; that is your personal choice by preference, or convenience.

 

Supermans should come fast, maybe you can push your worksets to 20s?

 

 

It might be a good idea to take a video while you perform each hold so someone will be able to help check your form & posture; this is very important at this stage.

[Peter Möller Voss]

So I just read through the thread and have a little question. Just keep in mind I tried my best not to ask questions already asked in the thread. It´s quite a puzzle though.

You have 6 basic pre-req holds that you need to be able to do for 3x60sec before starting FSP work. Those are Hollow hold, Arch hold, Plank, Reverse Plank, Dead hang & support hold. If these are no prob you can start FSP work but maintain them by doing them as a warmup cycle, each pos held for 60sec and going between them without rest. 

FBEs from the book can however be worked while your trying to establish a 3x60sec on FSP prereqs.

My question is though, doesnt the FBEs in the book have prerequisits? Or do you just start with the variation you can perform for 3-5reps and go from there? Like the book says?

 

EDIT: Forgot...  3x30  German Hang Before Back Lever & 3x30 sec L-sit on Floor Before Planche Work are pretty essential pre-reqs as well.....

[Peter Möller Voss]

EvolutionarySideSteps,

 

My understanding is that the FSP's s/ not be worked until the 6 pre-FSP's can be held for 3x60sec.

I thought that´s what I said. Atleast I meant that..... Gotta work on my language...  

Sorry!  But thanks for clarifying!