Combine Ring Strength with weights.

[Cody Clark]

How can I combine weight training with ring strength conditioning. In Coach Sommer's article he says that the guy who could do the Iron Cross with sixty pounds on him combine his rings with weights. Now I am not a advanced gymnast but I would strength like that and be big and defined like according to Coach Sommer was how that gymnast looked. That is what I want to suit for. Well any way would rings one day and weights next be a good one. So far my rings workout looks a little like this

1. Ladder to 5 ring pullups

2. 5 sets of 3 ring dips

3. Ladder 5,10,15,20 ring pushups

4.L sit hold for 3 sets of hold for as long as you can.

I don't have a very solid weight lifting workouts yet because I am stil trying to see what works. Quick note I want a powerful upper body sotcky but defined. Sorry for the rambling. Any help will be appreciated. THanks.

[Coach Sommer]

Forgive me for being direct; however the proposed workout plan will not get you to where you would like to go.

You are simply considering alternating a day of weights with a day of basic calesthenics. FBEs performed on the rings are still FBEs and will not build the same degree of strength and muscularity as advanced ring strength elements.

However if you attempt to train these advanced ring strength elements at your current strength levels, you will injure yourself. A foundation of basic strength must first be established with FBEs and FSPs before you will be adequately prepared to move on to more advanced ring strength elements.

As a rough list, my recommendation is that when you are strong enough to perform FL, BL, XR HS, L-sit Press HS on parallets, Bowers, XR PL dips and rope climbs without legs for multiple laps you will have built a reasonable degree of basic strength and would then be ready to benefit from adding some limited weight lifting into your program. Until then, you will make the most progress by simply confining your focus to working the GB WODs

In my opinion, the GB WODs are one of the very finest conditioning templates available and the very same one that I use with my own competitive athletes; scaled of course to their much higher levels of strength. Perhaps it would be helpful to remember that when you are performing a ring strength day as assigned by the GB WODs, so is the Jr National Champion.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Cody Clark]

Thank You Coach Sommer I will focus on the WODuntil I can Build to the exercises. Thank you very much. Appriecate it

[Erik Sjolin]

I've been wondering about the WOD's for a while, and had one or two questions regarding them.

As stated before (or in a few other threads), the WOD's are meticulously designed to give the best results possible. I was wondering if I should build my strength up in my own workouts before doing the WOD's so I can do them more effectively (working pulls, HeSPUs and static positions).

Are there any specific things to train to get a L-sit press to handstand on the parallets?

Also, what's a XR PL dip? Is that another name for a Galimore in BtGB?

Thanks for all the information and time.

[Leandro]

I was wondering if I should build my strength up in my own workouts before doing the WOD's so I can do them more effectively (working pulls, HeSPUs and static positions).

I would like to have the answer to this question as well =)

[Coach Sommer]

I was wondering if I should build my strength up in my own workouts before doing the WOD's so I can do them more effectively (working pulls, HeSPUs and static positions).

No.

Follow the GB WODs as directed, simply substituting exercises of less intensity as necessary. To aid you in these substitutions is why the exercises are rated in terms of difficulty in BtGB.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Joshua Naterman]

Great thread!

Cody, as Coach has said until you build up your body to the point where it can handle the advanced ring stuff, you shouldn't even think about it.

The WODs are seriously effective. I'll be doing them directly once I get done reprogramming my body. I highly recommend doing exactly what Coach says. You'll be surprised at how well it works. It may seem like it isn't enough, but it is. There is a reason why he always builds extremely high level athletes, no matter where he has coached, and that reason is the system he has developed and shared with us here.

[roman]

Strength ALWAYS comes before Mass, remember that! You need to focus on your basic strength and not let your ego dictate your training. Be patient and progress through the various static holds for at least 3-6 months, until your strong enough to turn the static into dynamic (e.g. tuck planche holds -> tuck planche PUs, bent arms handstands -> handstand pushups etc.), then just build up the volume and your muscles will really develop.

By the way, even when working on basic strength and just static holds your muscles will definitely develop if you eat right! Nutrition is the key here! That and PATIENCE!!

Good Luck!

[Erik Sjolin]

Okay, I think I understand the WOD's a little better now, but I'm still curious about the static positions. Right now I train three one day (front lever, back lever and L-sit) and three the other day (planche, straddle L, manna) and that just keeps rotating. Should I be doing this in addition to the WOD's, or only when they have them embedded in them?

[Coach Sommer]

... I'm still curious about the static positions. Right now I train three one day (front lever, back lever and L-sit) and three the other day (planche, straddle L, manna) and that just keeps rotating. Should I be doing this in addition to the WOD's, or only when they have them embedded in them?

Perform your FSP work as a part of your daily warm-up prior to, and in addition to, whatever is scheduled for that day's GB WOD.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Joshua Naterman]

Exactly! For those of you who just read Coach's recommendation of FSP as part of your warm up every day, that should tell you something about the intensity you should be using! If you're doing 10 second holds you're working in a position that is too advanced. The statics shouldn't be anything even CLOSE to a maximal effort!

That is a very hard concept for nearly everyone to grasp, but it is very important.

[Cody Clark]

Sorry for not saying this when I posted this but wouldn't getting to the level that coach sommer has said really help me to get to built and strength of the old timers with there massive upperbodies and strong legs not trying to bring nothing down but would this level be far beyond that of most people who start doing weights. Wouldn't doing workouts of the Day with the advance varations be the one that brings best results how can you make progress in the stuff that Sommer has laid out here if the workout of the doesn't actually do it everytime. Again I know I should've said this earlier but can some one tell how this works a little clearer. Thanks

[Joshua Naterman]

I want to be really nice about this, but I think I'm going to fail. Cody, you don't seem to have any idea of what's going at all, and you do not write very clearly.

If you're interested in being able to do what the old strong men could do, you need to read the courses written by the old strong men. Arthur Saxon, Apollon, Zishe "Sigmund" Breitbart, Sandow, etc. You are never supposed to work yourself into the ground. I posted the links on another thread of yours. You will see that in every course, you are supposed to work at a relatively moderate intensity and you are supposed to progress relatively slowly. Strength is not obtained by racing towards it.

Aspects of gymnastic training have been present in nearly all successful athletes of that era, and even many of today's era. Read those manuals and you will discover that what those old timers considered to be "decent strength" would pop the eyes out of most peoples' skulls these days. Pretty difficult partner handbalancing was considered the mark of a reasonably fit man. They all did it back then.

Push ups, pull ups, the harder core exercises, these almost all come from old-school gymnastic conditioning. What we have HERE is the most complete gymnastic conditioning available anywhere. This is the best core program for pretty much anyone who isn't trying to be a professional Olympic lifter or a powerlifter. The program here will make you strong in all areas and will teach you to move your body freely and with great control through the world around you, while building pretty good general endurance as well.

Before you can try and combine the two, you'll need to learn and understand each on their own first. I am working on having a site for people who want to integrate other training into gymnastic training up in the next 6 months or so, but it may be a bit longer. I will still be telling people that to learn about the gymnastic conditioning, in my opinion they need to get on the GB WODs and get the BtGB book series. That's just how it is. This is by far the best thing out there for gymnastic conditioning. Learn what we do here first, then learn about the strong men. Or learn about them first, and then learn about this program. What order you do things in doesn't matter, as long as it makes you happy, but don't expect this to be a resource for your strongman research. There are plenty of those out there. If you're not willing to do your own work, you're not going to find anyone willing to work with you. I've given you the places to look, now it's your turn to do the looking.

[Cody Clark]

I know what is going on and if you could read a little clearer you would see what I am trying to say. I am using this site as a gymnastic strength resource just wanted to see if any advice could be given about how the old time strongman used gymnastics in their strength training. I am not trying to combine anything I am just trying to figure out if this program will give me the strength and build of the old timers not how they just trained but if BtGB could help me get there.

Yes I have read the manuals at sandow website and yes its fun to read about them but thats it im just trying to be me not a old time strongman.

PS I did my last post and last question it was hard to read I apologize for that I hope this is a little clearer.

[Joshua Naterman]

It will definitely help. Gymnastic training has been the beginning of many a strong man's career! That goes back all the way to ancient Greece and later the Roman armies!

If you REALLY want that old time strength, you'll need to do a little bit outside of here, but this is the best core program for that in my opinion. Depending on what exactly you're looking for I might modify the WODs *slightly* but I can't elaborate on that without a specific example in mind.

For example, in my personal opinion Zishe Breitbart had one of the most brilliant training programs, and training devices, of all time. His course actually will build the strength to wrap 1/2 inch iron bars around your forearms in a coil. It is also very much able to be integrated into what we do here without taking away from any of this. I actually think they will be very complimentary! I just don't have the money to reproduce his device yet. I will soon! It's less than a hundred bucks.

[Cody Clark]

When you said to change the WOD slightly how about something like this something like this. Before I do the WOD I do some Turkish Getups which is a full body movement plus it would be kinda like the old time strongman when they started to. Gymnastic Strength Training™ and Turk get ups. I read on dragondoor that one of the test for the strongman were to do a 100 pound turk getup on each side before doing any other training. Does that sound like a good combo or not.

[Neal Winkler]

I know what is going on and if you could read a little clearer you would see what I am trying to say. I am using this site as a gymnastic strength resource just wanted to see if any advice could be given about how the old time strongman used gymnastics in their strength training. I am not trying to combine anything I am just trying to figure out if this program will give me the strength and build of the old timers not how they just trained but if BtGB could help me get there.

Yes I have read the manuals at sandow website and yes its fun to read about them but thats it im just trying to be me not a old time strongman.

PS I did my last post and last question it was hard to read I apologize for that I hope this is a little clearer.

Amazing, you are lucky that slizzardman is being gracious enough to talk to you after this post. The problem is not his reading comprehension but the fact that every post you make sounds like the grammar of a 5 year old. The above quote is the clearest thing you have ever written, but you still forgot to use commas.

[Cody Clark]

I know, I know I was just mad as heck I know my writing sucks, im 16 and still can't do good grammar. Besides I thought this was a strength forum not a grammar test forum. Please im not trying to be rude or anything its just ive seen worse writing on here so please just try to under stand. If you can't read tell me I will try to make it clearer but don't make fun of me for it.

[Neal Winkler]

No problem, Cody. I will be more understanding in the future. It's just that the internet is not known for it's good grammar, so I assumed that you were either being lazy or using internet slang. This message board is a little more "refined" than you will typically find on the internet so we don't like all that internet slang. My punctuation and sentence structure is not exactly perfect either.

Again, my apologies.

[Cody Clark]

Thank You

I do try to make my writing as clear as I can but, gramar is not my strong suit. I am sorry if my posts make me sound like im being to lazy to write because, im not I try to make things clear, sometimes it just doesn't sound right. I am sorry for that I will continue to try to improve my posts. Thanks

[Joshua Naterman]

It's all good. I'm not trying to make you feel bad about your grammar, what I want is for you to want to learn to communicate more clearly so that YOU can learn more!

THe get-ups aren't a bad part of the warm up. Trust me, eventually 100 lb turkish get up will be nothing. Just follow the same concept as the FSP: don't work TOO hard. Warm up is warm up, not the work out. Only warm up with a get-up weight that is not horribly challenging. Put on maybe 5 extra lbs a month, that shouldn't be much of a big deal, and if you start out with 20 lbs this month you'll be at 80 lbs in one year, and it should still be quite easy for you! Don't rush ahead. The old timers took their time, and you should too.