Weighted pull ups carryover to muscle up

[Sean Matsuda]

How much body weight percentage in weighted pull ups to reach STRICT muscle ups?  "No swing, np momentum, no false grip" 

I am around 195lbs and now can do about 5 reps with just 50lbs though. I am guessing I should reach 100lbs pull ups first?

[Coach Sommer]

Hi Sean,

Not sure that the question really applies.  What makes muscle ups difficult is weakness through the transition and a lack of shoulder extension mobility; not a lack of maximal pull up strength.

This is not to say that weighted pull-ups do not have value, they do; just not really for muscle ups.

By the way, as something to shoot for in the future, at their best my athletes did weighted muscle ups with just shy of half bodyweight hanging on them.

Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer

[Alessandro Mainente]

I can confirm at 100% what Coach is saying!

[Frank Santasiero]

4 hours ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

I can confirm at 100% what Coach is saying!

Coach is absolutely right. In my prime I was able to do a one arm chin up in each arm and still failed to do a muscle up. Nearing age 55 I lost the one arm pull up but over the last few years I have been working on increased mobility through the shoulders and also refined my technique to do a muscle up and can  now do a muscle up. Of course you have to be able to do at least one pull up.

[Sean Matsuda]

Thanks Coach and everyone else. I can see how weighted pullups can transfer more directly to one arms and less to muscle ups. But what about transferring to HIGH PULLUPS? or is high pullups also all about things like should mobility as Coach mentioned? 

 

Muscle ups work with my long ass arms seem like an impossible task to me, I'll get a full front lever "since im at straddle now" before I ever get one clean muscle up

But if High Pullups are more so related to raw strength than things like transition, mobility and technique etc, I rather aim for that.

 

 

[Coach Sommer]

Hi Sean,

Arm length is inconsequential for muscle ups if you are properly trained.  I am a case in point, my wingspan is longer than I am tall and I never particularly noticed muscle ups.  Once again it is a issue of weakness thru the transition and poor shoulder extension mobility.

Negative MU may be a good choice for you.  Especially if you really slow down and concentrate on spending as much time per rep as possible in the transition.  And make sure you are hitting that shoulder extension mobility hard!

Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer

[Sean Matsuda]

I can do around 5 - 6 semi clean now if I am fresh " cant keeps legs completely straight yet"  Do you guys think widening the grip is a good way to make it harder which will transfer to my regular grip muscle ups?

 

I thinking since I can do 5 - 6 normal grip. widen grip until I do 5 wide muscle ups, then widen grip again for 5 very wide muscle ups etc. Is that a good way to make regular muscle ups harder? My goal is 10 clean normal grip muscles but I never been the type stick with one progression past 5 - 6 reps, I always up the difficulty after 5 reps.

 

Any other good ways to make them harder or is that it?

Edited December 2, 2019 by Sean Matsuda

[Alessandro Mainente]

21 hours ago, Sean Matsuda said:

I can do around 5 - 6 semi clean now if I am fresh " cant keeps legs completely straight yet"  Do you guys think widening the grip is a good way to make it harder which will transfer to my regular grip muscle ups?

 

I thinking since I can do 5 - 6 normal grip. widen grip until I do 5 wide muscle ups, then widen grip again for 5 very wide muscle ups etc. Is that a good way to make regular muscle ups harder? My goal is 10 clean normal grip muscles but I never been the type stick with one progression past 5 - 6 reps, I always up the difficulty after 5 reps.

 

Any other good ways to make them harder or is that it?

Actually no, because it is a different motor schema.

Pre req for wide grip is the normal grip. the normal grip also requires different abilities:

-normal grip: more tricep strength in the transition, more passive shoulder extension, less chest strength;

-wide grip: more lats strength in the bottom and in the transition, less triceps strength in the transition, more chest strength from the transition to the top, more bicep conditioning, generally speaking much more stress on the shoulder joint.

so the wide grip cannot be used for reaching a better normal grip.

once you have understood your limitations and gaps in the normal variation...you need to fix them.

[Sean Matsuda]

I'll just leave the wide grip stuff for regular pull ups and front lever negatives.

[Sean Matsuda]

Muscle Up UPDATE

I am reviving this thread to let Coach and Alessandro and any tall / heavy athlete know that I quit regular muscle ups " Momentum " for strict slow no momentum muscle ups "Currently using false grip and L-Sit position"  I felt like Normal momentum MU was not building real foundational strength and relied too much on technique and timing and explosiveness rather than raw strength, I also find it not fun to use momentum.

Currently at 4-5 reps slow no momentum MU. Once I reach around 7-8 clean, I'll either reduce the false grip or use less L-Sit

It's such a satisfying way to perform muscle ups, I dont understand the fascination with momentum MU and why so little people promote no momentum / muscle up with slow negatives

Kind of a useless thread revival, but back when I made this post, I was very discouraged about MU's so to me it means a lot.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Sean Matsuda