Critique a summer routine for me and friends

[grprahl]

Sorry to post yet another "critique my routine" post, but since I have other people that will be using this workout as well I would really like some input because I don't want to hurt anyone.

A little background first. I'm a track and field guy. 19 years old. Have been training for the decathlon the past year but chronic hamstring issues are forcing me to take some time off from the events. I have always been fairly strong for my size, nothing spectacular... and have always been well above average in my abilities to learn new things and to become a great technician. I've done a lot of running and jumping in the past (probably 5 years), and a lot of weightlifting (same amount of time)(olympic lifting and powerlifting mostly). I have some experience working on bodyweight strength and conditioning but it's mostly off and on. Both friends are also no strangers to the weight room and athletic field.

I'm not going to list everything, because I have a fifteen week program set up and it would fill up several pages. I have taken bits and pieces from two different collegiate track and field lifting programs and Coach Sommer's "Building the Gymnastic Body." Here's the basic M/W/F template:

Anything with a GB in front of it is from the gymnastic bodies training.

Monday: [supersets in brackets] Mostly lifting day

Warm up (dynamic warm-up, pre-hab, med-ball circuit)

Lifting (Snatch, [back Squat, Lower body auxillaries], [bench, pushing auxillaries], [Lat pulldown, pull auxilaries])

Isometrics (chest, lower body, GB back lever, GB L-sit)

Circuits (Core, plate)

Cooldown (Hangs, self or partner soft tissue work, static flexibility)

Wednesday: More bodyweight stuff

Warm Up: Same as Monday

Lifting (Cleans, [Front squat, low. body aux’s], [G.B push, G.B. HSPU, G.B. Dip], [G.B. Pullups, GB rows, GB curls]

Isometrics (Legs, GB Planche, GB Straddle L)

Circuits (Core, Plate)

Cooldown (Same)

Friday: Lower intensity, higher volume

Warm Up: Same

Lifting: [Clean and Jerk, low. Body aux], Bunch of upper body and core auxillaries

Isometrics (legs, chest, GB front lever, GB back lever)

Circuits (Dumbell, Core)

Cooldown: same

The whole program is 15 weeks, the length of the summer.

For main lifts (oly. Lifts, squats, bench):

-Week 1-10 periodized, starting high volume, low weight progress to high weight, low volume.

- Week 11 max.

-Week 12-15 like weeks 1-3 with new weights

For auxiliaries: Same pattern as main lifts, but NONE on weeks 5,10, or 11 to recover.

For GB strength movements: Following PTTP style. Stay 3 sets of 3-5 the whole time.

- Weeks 1-4 doing a harder progression each week.

-Week 5 off.

-Weeks 6-9 repeat weeks 1-4.

-Week 10 off.

-Week 11 retest.

-Weeks 12-15 like weeks 1-3 but taking new maxes into account.

For GB isometric holds: 60s of total work per hold, using sets of half current max time.

[grprahl]

One thing I've noticed already and will probalby change is the following:

Right now I have the supersets with all pushing movements together and all pulling movements together.

I'll probably rearrange the supersets so that each combines pull and push.

[Blairbob]

Hmm, what's the focus of the program? Is it for decathletes or just fitness enthusiasts? Recreation or competitive?

[grprahl]

It's based to increase funtional strength and power, both of which help for performance in any sport, and will also contribute to aesthetics when coupled with a good diet. It's designed for people with a good background in lifting.

So to answer your question more directly, it can be used by recreational fitness enthusiasts who want to increase performance as well as aesthetics, but it's designed for competitive athletes.

[Joshua Naterman]

Overall it's not too much, though I think that push press work would be a great addition. For most athletes, that's going to give more 'bang for the buck' than flat or decline bench, you know what I mean?

My main comment is that you won't see significant long-term gain on 1x/week statics. You're going to need to do them at least 2x per week. At 2x per week, I'd focus on going to 80-90% of maximum hold time versus 50% unless it's a de-loading week or something. Early planche work really does need to be done 3x a week for sure at closer to 50%, at least until you get to the tuck. The inner elbows need to be conditioned, and it happens slowly. Just like everything else, they need to be pushed hard but not injured. 1x/week is too infrequent even if you're maxing out, I think. I don't know for SURE, if you want to experiment with it go for it I guess, but based on my experiences and those of many others here it is a bad idea to go for broke with the inner elbows, especially in the beginning. Once you start getting tendonitis you end up losing a LOT of training time.

[grprahl]

Okay, I think I see what you're saying. By push press you mean standing upright and moving the bar from your shoulders to up over your head? I actually have that in there in the form of military presses on Monday and dumbbell incline benches on Friday. I had just labeled them as auxiliarys before.

So for the isometrics, just to be clear... You're recommending doing the holds 2x a week at 80-90% max hold time with the exception of early planche work which should be 3x a week at 50% max hold time per set because it is by nature much more aggressive on the tendons in the elbow?

[Joshua Naterman]

Planche and back lever at 50% no matter what, yes. At first I would probably do a ramping up for the statics, take a good month to move from 50% to 80-90%. With the longer holds you'll need to treat them like strength work, with 3-5 minute rests.

The push press is different from military press. It's similar to the jerk, except you don't drop under the bar to straighten your elbows. You dip down with your legs, explode up, and press with your arms all at the same time. There are some excellent videos on youtube, but this is the best:

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This shows shoulder/military press, push press, and the jerk. The push press builds exceptional upper body strength and power. There is a strong carryover to almost every upper body pressing motion. For the auxilliaries, if you aren't already, external rotation strength work(not just rehab, but actively working on strength) is pretty important. I've found this out myself and have now permanently incorporated it into my work, and am seeing noticeable improvements after only two weeks. I am very excited about the long term implications!

[grprahl]

Awesome! Thanks for clearing that up.

[grprahl]

I'm making an adjustment that I think might make the program better in the long run. My initial setup had me doing an easy bodyweight progression in basic strength and statics one week, then each week moving onto the next harder progression for 4 weeks and starting over. Well, I've noticed that some of the exercises are already challenging at week 2. For example, the headstand pushups are challenging to perform 3 sets of 5 correctly.

So I've decided that I can keep the design the way it is for bodyweight progressions, but once I hit a challenging exercise, keep that certain exercise/set/reps the same every week in a Steady State until it becomes easy. So I will keep doint the HeSPUs for the next however many weeks. And for some of the easier exercises (dips) I will still have another couple weeks before I hit that really challenging exercise to do steady state with. If I had simplly tested before starting, I could have done this right away with all exercises, but this way I have a few weeks of easy build up into SS and it worked out quite nicely.

[grprahl]

I'll give an update since the 11 week testing week has come. Yesterday I tested the Snatch, the Clean, and the Bench (180lb bodyweight)

Snatch: 200lb

Clean: 270lb

Bench: 275lb

At week one, my maxes for those lifts were 165lb, 230lb, and 240lb respectively. Quite an improvement. Over the last couple weeks, I tapered down the overall volume, including some of the gymnastic work. I think I might test the GB stuff later this week.

[Razz]

Great improvements!!

[Joshua Naterman]

Excellent work!

Are you using cycling or are you trying to do a long-term linear approach?

[grprahl]

This was basically a little 10 week cycle that could be repeated over and over again indefinitely just plugging in new maxes/GB exercises based on week 11 testing. However once I go back to school I will be following more of a year long cycle. High volume, lower intensity in fall, strength and moderate volume in winter, and speed/power, lower volume in spring, with tapering before certain track and field competitions. The lifting then will be following a flat loading protocol, hard for 3 to 5 weeks followed by a download week. Everything not lifting (running, etc) never really has download weeks but workouts change weekly with that yearly plan in mind.

In fact, the only reason I deviated from that year long plan for this summer was because I was very dissatisfied with my levels of strength at the beginning of summer and wanted to give it a boost.

[Joshua Naterman]

You'll do better if you implement a complex training cycle and run 4-8 week minicycles back to back, always starting easy and ending higher than the last cycle. There's a really good and simple chart in Pavel's Power to the People that illustrates this well, but the basic idea rings true. Everyone from the old time strongmen to Jim Wendler with 531 incorporates the tapering and increasing of load.

If you're a 100 or 200m athlete you'll want to focus primarily on 5 rep sets, and track and field is primarily these shorter, power-based events. Based on the events in the Decathlon, which seems to be your primary goal, you've only got 2 events that are over 200m, the 400m and 1500m. You will get good performance results with the GB WODs, but keeping in mind that gymnastics is less hip-girdle dependant than track and field I would put in more altitude drops and leg work.

The basic concept behind the cycling I'm talking about is very different from what you've described, because with complex training you never stop training strength, endurance, OR reactive/explosive ability. I've actually been talking to a middle distance runner and helping him re-organize his training to get better results here in another thread.

Are you familiar with complex training and/or minicycles?

[grprahl]

I think I'm familiar with the mini cycles you're describing. I believe the 10 week cycle I've just completed is sort of a drawn out example of one. Basically start with low intensity (maybe 60%), and week by week add weight and taper (building up to say 100%), at which time you start a new cycle starting higher than last time? Personally I'm a big fan of them because I've always finished stronger that I've started, without fail. Generally very noticable improvements as well.

However I know that the flat loading year long cycle has made it's mark on the track and field athletes as well. For instance, I'll pick on the top two decathletes on the team. One's a 7600 point dec, the other a 7200. The 7200 guy, although not as technically sound in the events, is an animal in the weight room. At about 6'2" 195, he'll go in there at 6:30am with sweatpants, a longsleeve t, and running shoes and routinely clean 265-300, squat over 400, and bench close to 300 for sets. The other guy's not far behind strengthwise. Both have made large improvements since freshman year. The throwers are even more ridiculous.

If I had it my way, I'd probably do multiple minicycles, but on the other hand I also want to give the flat loading another chance. Last year I missed much of the heavy strength weeks because of injury. I would also like to try the mentality of Kelly Bagget's "Money sets". This means that every time you do a certain exercise, you try to get better at it. One more rep than last week, or 5 more pounds than last week, etc. It would be an ideal mindset for flat loading, however this protocol does make the download week a necessity to avoid excessive neural fatigue and overtraining.

I guess another option I haven't thought of is training different bodyparts with different cycles at the same time. For instance, I could follow the year long periodized flat loading protocol for the olympic lifts and lower body supersets (usually squat, a type of lunge or step up, a hamstring exercise, and a high intensity plyometric). But then for upper body I could do my own complex mini cycles of weights and gymnastic bodies. Something to think about.

[grprahl]

Another thing that I thought of. It seems like it's really easy to get better with mini cycles (at least in my experience). It also seems like its really easy to peak at exactly the right time using annual plans (based mostly on observation).

Perhaps its better to focus more on mini cycles until reaching a level where you're close to genetic potential strength/power wise, etc. Then the annual plan would more easily get that already strong, powerful athlete to peak at the right time.

In Tudor O. Bompa's Periodization: Theory and Methodology of Training he states that step loading is suited quite well for developing athletes, (mini cycles seem to be a form of step loading). Flat loading, he mentioned, works great for National and International level athletes. It's safe to assume that athletes of that caliber are already very strong, fast, etc. Maybe the fact that I added 30+ pounds on my lifts using a 10 week cycle is proof that my body is not close enough to its genetic peak to benefit as much from flat loading?

Kelly Bagget says that most people are genetically capable of a 2x bodyweight squat. Many are capable of a 2.5x bodyweight squat. Genetic freaks with weightlifting bodies can maybe do 3x. I'm not even at 2x yet.

Edit: You talked about the GB WODs. Do you think it would be better for someone like me to do scaled versions of the GB WODs? Or rather pick a few exercises and train them in either mini cycles or steady state?

[Joshua Naterman]

I think I'm familiar with the mini cycles you're describing. I believe the 10 week cycle I've just completed is sort of a drawn out example of one. Basically start with low intensity (maybe 60%), and week by week add weight and taper (building up to say 100%), at which time you start a new cycle starting higher than last time? Personally I'm a big fan of them because I've always finished stronger that I've started, without fail. Generally very noticable improvements as well.

However I know that the flat loading year long cycle has made it's mark on the track and field athletes as well. For instance, I'll pick on the top two decathletes on the team. One's a 7600 point dec, the other a 7200. The 7200 guy, although not as technically sound in the events, is an animal in the weight room. At about 6'2" 195, he'll go in there at 6:30am with sweatpants, a longsleeve t, and running shoes and routinely clean 265-300, squat over 400, and bench close to 300 for sets. The other guy's not far behind strengthwise. Both have made large improvements since freshman year. The throwers are even more ridiculous.

If I had it my way, I'd probably do multiple minicycles, but on the other hand I also want to give the flat loading another chance. Last year I missed much of the heavy strength weeks because of injury. I would also like to try the mentality of Kelly Bagget's "Money sets". This means that every time you do a certain exercise, you try to get better at it. One more rep than last week, or 5 more pounds than last week, etc. It would be an ideal mindset for flat loading, however this protocol does make the download week a necessity to avoid excessive neural fatigue and overtraining.

I guess another option I haven't thought of is training different bodyparts with different cycles at the same time. For instance, I could follow the year long periodized flat loading protocol for the olympic lifts and lower body supersets (usually squat, a type of lunge or step up, a hamstring exercise, and a high intensity plyometric). But then for upper body I could do my own complex mini cycles of weights and gymnastic bodies. Something to think about.

Yea, you know what the minicycles are all about, basically. They are good for long-term progress.

As you probably know, most weight room performance (bench, squat, etc) has fairly little to do with athletic performance beyond certain benchmark numbers, though the Olympic lifts are more telling. For track and field that's even MORE true than most sports because of all the twisting and full-body tension and movement. You guys will benefit the most from swinging work and straight arm conditioning in particular, which are part of the general gymnastic training experience. You can see the impact this has had on the #1 javelin thrower in the world, Andreas Thornkinnnson. He is the first male javelin thrower in history to be both European champion, World champion and Olympic champion. I'm not going to claim he never lifts, because even many elite gymnasts do specific lifts. The straight arm conditioning simply enhances his sport performance, as does the constant training of his body as an integrated unit.

The gymnastic work simply works the body as a unit more so than most weightlifting, which is why a gymnastic base works so well with track and field in general and decathletes in particular. You guys just have to have incredible overall ability, and that is where gymnastic training shines, for the most part. You will need to add to the lower body days, they are not quite right for your sport.

I've found that flat loading works for a while, but when you start getting more experience you can push your body harder, which means you need more rest as well. That's when the minicycles really start to shine, and will tend to give better results. That is, of course, assuming that you are still looking for MAXIMUM INCREASES in your maximal strength. If you're not, you just want to use something of a steady state cycle, and not worry much about increasing weight.

For you, you'll do best to have a complex training cycle for your legs since that's where practically all of your power comes from, at the very least. You just can't afford to lose the explosive ability, and when you look at how reactive strength conditions the nervous system to enhance maximal strength, which causes more contractile fibers to be built so that reactive strength is not only enhanced through nervous system efficiency but also through more contractile fibers, and you have this almost resonant circuit that constantly builds itself far more quickly than just focusing on one or the other.

As for all that genetic limitation shit, throw it out. That's just there to appeal to everyone's sense of self-limitation. 2x bodyweight seriously isn't very much weight. It just so happens that very few people care enough to put the time in, OR know the correct programming to achieve such goals. There will always be some people who are more gifted than the rest of us, but to try and put bodyweight multiples like that out there is a bit silly. The only truth there is that at the very highest potential some of us are capable of more than others, but we can all go incredibly far.

As far as the flat versus wave or step loading, as I said before weight room performance only matters up to a certain point. There absolutely comes a point where a sprinter no longer needs more focus on maximal strength training and switches to focusing on dynamic strength, putting maximal strength on something of a flat and 'linear' loading scheme. It would really be more of a long-term step loading scheme since there won't be regular focus on increasing weights. As the weight used becomes so easy that the athlete no longer notices the workouts, a small addition will be made. It becomes very similar to the steady state cycle used here.

You mention how much easier it is to peak with a linear cycle, and I have to disagree. I think it's equally easy to peak with minicycles. You have to have the experience, of course, to do this, and that can come from your own personal experience or from that of a proven coach, either through online correspondance, direct contact or even in a book if you pay attention. Trying to get an annual peak simply requires a lot of pre-planning, and can absolutely be done. I think the confusion is in thinking that minicycles can not be organized into a yearly cycle. They can, and that apparently is the newest thing. Is it better? Honestly, I don't know the answer to that. There are quite a few athletes that are at the top of their game due to this training, and to my mind I do think it's smarter after thinking fairly deeply about how the body supercompensates.

I think the fact that even a large portion of the top power athletes in the world still use minicycles, and that they tend to comprise a larger section of top powerlifters, Olympic lifters, and putters. I don't know about hammer throwers, javelin, or more diverse athletes like Decathletes, but I honestly don't see why it wouldn't be very similar. Keep in mind that if your weightlifting increases do not lead to an increase in performance then they are a waste of energy. You MUST focus on performance first. You are not a weightlifter, you are a Decathlete.

One of the very nice things about the GB WODs is that this variability in intensity and stimulus is built into the cycle. The GB WODs are a very, very good example of great complex training. I absolutely think that you will get more out of the GB WODs than you will out of selected exercise complex training because when you do the GB work properly you are hitting your whole body through pretty much every plane of movement maximally, submaximally, plyometrically and explosively over the course of a month. That's very hard to duplicate, but you could. If you're just going to duplicate something, why wouldn't you just use the original instead of trying to replace everything with different movements to get the same result?!

I WILL say that you, personally, will benefit from some slight modifications! You need to do more varied altitude drops than just depth jumps. Dropping into deep lunges is great, and working on pull up drops will help you as well, once you're strong enough. Push up altitude drops will also be good for you. Again, these should be done on the appropriate days.

For the sprints, concentrating on that An-1 work is going to really be your savior. You've got 7 events that are entirely An-1 in nature. That means 20 seconds or less in work sets. That, my friend, is a lot of events. Maximal AN-1 isometrics will be your friend a few times a month.

One of the best things you could do is to construct a cheap impulse trainer for actual event practice. It will help you train your body to send more coordinated neural impulses at the critical parts of every stride and throw. You'll have to make some custom attachments, but it really is easy and will be absolutely invaluable to you. Search for "impulse trainer" on youtube.

Here's a video on the mechanics of the trainer, which you duplicate with two skateboard trucks and a 2x4 if you don't just have an old skateboard. A walmart skateboard will work. 3FFqYztDnCQ

That is the channel too, watch his other videos. You could totally make a javelin and shot put attachment, and train specifically for the impulses you need. Watch the baseball attachment video to learn how to use them and to get more ideas. There is a sprinting video as well.

I have some interesting ideas about more 'advanced' periodization schemes that I haven't heard of existing as such, so we'll see how that goes as time goes on. Right now I'm spending the rest of this year just getting back into shape and focusing on rehab and prehab lol! A multi-year training plan is essential if you intend to reach the highest pinnacle of your sport.

I apologize for the somewhat disjointed reply, I started last night and finished just now.

[grprahl]

Don't worry about a disjointed response. I enjoyed every word of it. This is giving me some good insight on not just how to focus my individual training, but also ideas on training theory (which I happen to particularly enjoy learning about).

As far as the GB WODs, I guess I never really took the time to see how they progressed over time and are part of a great complex scheme. I think I'm going to make one of those Excel worksheets listing all the exercise progressions and start doing the WODs. (I'll be honest, I wouldn't be able to do many complete WODs as listed...yet).

I'm really intrigued by that impulse trainer and am going to do some more research on it IMMEDIATELY. I've never seen anything quite like it before.

[Joshua Naterman]

If you look at the WODs and just cut and paste them next to each other on a calendar, you will learn a lot. I suggest doing this with two months of WODs, straight and in order.

If you really like this stuff you should see if you can come out to the Seminar in September! It's going to be great! You will learn so much about this stuff that your head will burst, and it won't even be 5% of what's in Coach's head. It is really an incredible experience and there are always really fantastic people there!

[grprahl]

I'd love to be able to come out to the seminar. It really is cool stuff. I'm not sure if I'll be able to or not since I'd have to fly down there and I've already got most of my money going to apartment payments and loan interest. Would be a load of fun though.

I'm definitely going to follow your advice of studying the structure of the past 2 months of WODs.

Oh, btw, tested some other exercises today.

Shoulder press: 155lb, also wall headstand pushup with hands elevated 6" (probably could have a little further).

Pullup: Bodyweight + 70lb. Not sure how much I could do previously, I think I remember doing a couple reps with 25 pounds last winter.

Dip: Bodyweight + 135lb, only going down till upper arms were parallel to floor though. Much easier to standardize than guessing how much further down to go. Could probably do around 100-110 previously.

Straddle front lever: Barely. Held for about a second maybe.

And just for fun: threw 110lb on the bar and did a one-handed snatch. I bought some Olympic lifting shoes from a powerlifter there today too so I had to try them out. I have always lifted in running shoes previously.

[Joshua Naterman]

Nice! Get that 135 single hand snatch down, and put it up on youtube. People freak out at that sort of thing.

The seminar is worth saving for. Just save until you have the money and then come out to whatever one you have the money for!

[grprahl]

I have a question on the WODs. It looks pretty complete as is. I'd just add my own leg work with the complex mini cycles, and I know how to do that. But as far as some of the other things you mentioned:

I WILL say that you, personally, will benefit from some slight modifications! You need to do more varied altitude drops than just depth jumps. Dropping into deep lunges is great, and working on pull up drops will help you as well, once you're strong enough. Push up altitude drops will also be good for you. Again, these should be done on the appropriate days.

What type of days would you look for to add those upper body plyo's to? WODs that focus on low rep upper body strength? Days that are mostly legs?

[Joshua Naterman]

I'd do the upper body plyometrics on dynamic pull days, just as designed. Instead of doing say 4 sets of toe touch pull ups, which are primarily explosive in nature, I'd do maybe two sets of those, one set of short pull up catches, and one set of longer ones. I'd stand on a box so that I was 4-6 inches above the bar and put my hands in position at the top of the pull up. Then I'd split my legs so I would instantly drop, and i would catch myself at the top of the pull up with as little movement down as possible.

For the longer drop, I'd probably stand at the same position but put my hands around the top of my head, so that I dropped more like 12-15 inches before I caught the bar. Obviously, as time goes on those distances could be extended, but the focus must always be on making that catch as instantly as possible, and not travelling down at all, period. That's quite tough, but will build excellent starting strength that will directly transfer to the upper body part of pole vaulting. You could do something similar for body rows to build that continuous power through the horizontal position.

In fact, the easiest way to do this would be with the rings. You just get a good grip, stand up so you have the desired amount of slack, and drop. That way there's no smacking your chin on the bar, and minimal impact on your hands, and best of all you could use the exact position you want to be strong in for the catch!

As time goes on, and you guys get stronger, you'll want to focus a bit more on dynamic strength. You have to remember that Coach's guys also do a lot of technique work each training day, and there is a lot of reactive and explosive work just in that. Once you get to where the WODs aren't a big deal, hitting maybe 2 sets of the plyos on an in-between day won't hurt. At that point, I think you should look at the WOD schedule and pick an in-between day. That's the most important thing you can do, but for now, until your bodies adapt to the new work, just worry about hitting it 3-4 times a month. Eventually, 2-3 times a week with carefully controlled volume won't be a problem, but that's down the line a bit in my opinion.