Training Frequency for Side Lever/Human Flag

[Patrick Donnelly]

Does anyone "in the know" here have recommendations as to how frequently someone should train for a side lever/human flag?

On a good day, I can hold one with the right hand high for 3-4s on stall bars, and maybe 1-2s with the left hand high. Now, I'm a big(ger) guy than most - 6'1", 220lbs - and this leaves me fried. If I do just a few sets of sub-maximal holds (one leg tucked) on each side in a workout, the next day, I won't be able to come anywhere close. In fact, after the flags, I can hardly hold a wall handstand without continually sinking in the shoulders. The nervous system fatigue is on par with maximal deadlifting.

Now, I think the flag is a pretty cool trick, and I'd like to work up to a 10s hold on each side and then get the 180 degree pulls, but, with the way it tires me out, I can't really train it enough to make much progress. So, any tips on how to move forward?

[yuri marmerstein]

train wide arm pullups and wide arm handstands pushups often so you can keep the strength up.

if it fatigues you so much try doing it more often but smaller sets. do it when you are fresh so your concentration can be maximized

personally when I was learning flag, I would kick up and try to hold it(usually falling soon after) literally on every parking meter or street sign i walked by

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXdirSCSfsg this might also help you

[Joshua Naterman]

Nice! I'm not particularly in the know, but a year ago I was around where you were at with the Flag. I haven't trained it since because I'm taking care to build my shoulders and elbows up first before I try anything stressful like that again, they didn't help my tendonitis at all.

John Broz may be familiar to you if you've read the thread "Superman is alive and 19" in the Community section. He is on track to be the best American Olympic Lifting coach in our country's history, according to the progress his gym is making. Read the entire thread that is linked in there, it has an interview with Broz and a TON of great info. You might wonder why I recommend this, since we are a Gymnastics community and not an Olympic Lifting one. The reason is simply that the basic structure with which you build work capacity is the same for all physical pursuits, and Broz really does a great job of explaining how that works.

You can start by taking Yuri's suggestions and starting them 2-3x a week. If that's more than what you're used to, you'll probably go through a difficult period where you may even temporarily be unable to do as much per set as you are used to. Don't worry, stick it out and you'll start getting better. Your body can't adapt to the new workload if you lay off, you have to keep it steady and not take a break. You may be familiar with this idea, since it is essentially the concept behind Steady State Cycles. Once you start seeing steady gains with the new schedule, you can throw in a fourth day. Again, you may experience temporary difficulties, but they will pass and you will make even more progress. You can do this all the way up to 6-7 times a week eventually over the course of a few years, and your gains will continue to improve as your work capacity does.

I am doing this now, and I'm having fun. Read the thread, listen to the interview, read the whole thread that is linked, have confidence that your body will adapt just like all the others do, and start kicking some ass!

If you notice, Yuri basically did this with the Flag by trying it all the time. It is tough at first, but that difficulty passes eventually and then you're kicking ass even when you feel like crap!

[Patrick Donnelly]

train wide arm pullups and wide arm handstands pushups often so you can keep the strength up.

Is there really a strong carryover there? I gave those two moves a shot a long while back when I was learning the flag, but I didn't feel like there was any similarities between them. I figure the majority of my flag strength came from already being able to do a ~1/2 bodyweight barbell windmill for reps, then just adding more flag actual flag work to within the limits of my recovery ability. I don't know... Doing high rep stuff like that Dominc Lacasse video, while cool, doesn't seem like a strength builder to me. I've always seen strength as low rep, stuff. Anything over three reps is cardio, right? Haha - at least in weightlifting, it is. (And I had tried weightlifting before.)

if it fatigues you so much try doing it more often but smaller sets. do it when you are fresh so your concentration can be maximized

The problem is that if I try doing any fewer sets, I'll be cut back to doing pretty much just a single rep each workouts (because I'm only doing five or so right now), and even then, I can only hit it on certain days at all depending on my sleep, diet (not so much quality wise, but if I've eaten a lot already that day and I'm "heavy"), recent workouts, etc. So, it's like if I can do it one day, I want to make sure I actually train it as fully as I can, even though that guarantees I won't be able to do the same work the next day, because I might not be able to do the same work the next day anyway, even if I took the flags lightly.