Questions about Killroy70's workout

[Maverick]

I notice that when he performed his FBE (fundamental body exercises) he did different ones on each of his days as seen below:

Day 1 - horizontal plane pushing and pulling FBE

Day 2 - curling (inverted pullup) and dipping variations (RTO dips, etc..) FBE

Day 3 - pullup and HeSPU variation FBE

Day 4 - multiplane pulling variaions + varied pressing work

I am currently doing a M/W/F routine in which I do static planche, and lever progressions followed by:

pullups/handstand variation, planche pushup/row variation, dips and supermans each day. I do 3 sets of everything, including the static holds. I currently pair antagonists together (example: 1 set of pullups, followed by 1 set of handstands, followed by 2 minutes rest.)

QUESTIONS:

1.I am wondering if this is the optimal way to train or if doing different things everyday like Killroy does is better.

2. Killroy's post is informative, but it doesn't mention how long his rest periods are between sets. Also, does he pair antagonists together? He says he does 7-10 sets on all static holds (he does 4 static holds) - if he rested even 1 minute between each, that's over an hour right there!

Here is the template: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1957

[Blairbob]

Currently, I am switching to a Killroy70 inspired hybrid of my own. My boys are only in the gym MWF, so I have been wondering how to change it from a 4d program to 3d.

Personally, I do all the FSP statics in rounds, so I do BL, then PL, then FL, then straddle-L (manna is far away and there isn't really a point to do L anymore-though I do lots of L drills). So, I do them all with a short rest, typically walking from station to station and then rest for 45-90s. For the first 4 rounds, I use 45, then 1m, then 75s, then 90s as I scale up the intensity really in the last 3 rounds as though are most of the work rounds as the one prior are more just warmups. I find it allows my joints to ease into the real work sets and I get more practice than just 3 work sets but nothing that is overkill as my poison is doing too much.

I used to do straddle-L at the end of the workout as a finisher but I decided to add in to get it done and it didn't tire me out like I thought. Besides, straddle-L on the rings is fun and it's a way to sneak in some ring support work.

On my stopwatch, for 7 rounds I took 6m of rest and it probably takes about 10m or so to do it, maybe 12-15 at most.

I like the idea of rotating exercises via planes of motion around. I had tried focusing on predominantly HSPU and dips and Pullups while doing the horizontal and inverted pullups/body curls as assistance work and I think it was too much.

I still haven't decided what to do about the MWF. I figure my guys will be working pullover variants and kips on HB days and MU when we are on Rings besides doing kip drills on PB days so maybe that will be enough. I tempted to add in some low volume MU work every day, but I don't know about that yet as it may be too much or just use precious time vs just rotating the exercises.

As well I pair the push/pull FBE with 5m rest periods but work the middle strength such as HLL, body levers, HSLL, curlups, back ext, all that stuff later. It allowed me a bit better performance in them than when pairing them with the push and pulls. Not something Killroy valued but I do, especially for my gymnasts. It's not as convenient though for myself or them and I'm always trying to be more efficient.

[Rafael David]

hey thanks, I had the same questions, helped me a lot.

[Blairbob]

It's ok, I seem to like to use myself as a test dummy before trying it out on my guys, besides the latent OCD makes me do it a bit, I think too.

It's a work in progress as of yet.

I think for FBE's I could probably get away with 3m, but 5m is better. I feel good to go generally around 3 though. With the FSP's, 45 is alright, but I'm willing to spend some more time as I get to the worksets. It's a bit like a 7sets of 1rep in barbell training. The first 4 are just really warmups to the last 3. Except those last 3 really aren't at 90% of max.

One of the real tricks will be trimming it down to fit into my guy's gymnastics programming and schedule. We have 3 hours a day, MWF right now (though I'm pushing for a 4th and down the road, longer hours if we can start earlier). I try to encourage them to workout at home on off days if they like and feel up to it.

As well, my own programming seemed to have a faulty bias to it. I think formerly I could have handled the volume I prescribed but not anymore as my own concoctions pan out. So for right now, I will be tweaking the Killroy70 program. Besides it looks pretty mean and trim and that fits well into how much time I have for my guys and myself.

[Maverick]

Currently, I am switching to a Killroy70 inspired hybrid of my own. My boys are only in the gym MWF, so I have been wondering how to change it from a 4d program to 3d.

Personally, I do all the FSP statics in rounds, so I do BL, then PL, then FL, then straddle-L (manna is far away and there isn't really a point to do L anymore-though I do lots of L drills). So, I do them all with a short rest, typically walking from station to station and then rest for 45-90s. For the first 4 rounds, I use 45, then 1m, then 75s, then 90s as I scale up the intensity really in the last 3 rounds as though are most of the work rounds as the one prior are more just warmups. I find it allows my joints to ease into the real work sets and I get more practice than just 3 work sets but nothing that is overkill as my poison is doing too much.

I used to do straddle-L at the end of the workout as a finisher but I decided to add in to get it done and it didn't tire me out like I thought. Besides, straddle-L on the rings is fun and it's a way to sneak in some ring support work.

On my stopwatch, for 7 rounds I took 6m of rest and it probably takes about 10m or so to do it, maybe 12-15 at most.

I like the idea of rotating exercises via planes of motion around. I had tried focusing on predominantly HSPU and dips and Pullups while doing the horizontal and inverted pullups/body curls as assistance work and I think it was too much.

I still haven't decided what to do about the MWF. I figure my guys will be working pullover variants and kips on HB days and MU when we are on Rings besides doing kip drills on PB days so maybe that will be enough. I tempted to add in some low volume MU work every day, but I don't know about that yet as it may be too much or just use precious time vs just rotating the exercises.

As well I pair the push/pull FBE with 5m rest periods but work the middle strength such as HLL, body levers, HSLL, curlups, back ext, all that stuff later. It allowed me a bit better performance in them than when pairing them with the push and pulls. Not something Killroy valued but I do, especially for my gymnasts. It's not as convenient though for myself or them and I'm always trying to be more efficient.

Thank you for your response. I'm still slightly confused though - is training each exercise 3 times a week (M/W/F) better than prioritizing certain planes of motion each day (ex: horizontal push/pull Monday, vertical push/pull Wednesday...)? Also, I didn't quite understand what you meant by 45 second rest periods. You mean to say you only rest 45 seconds between your static exercises?

What I'm planning on doing is this: statics every monday, wednesday, friday. Bodyweight exercises: horizontal push/pull monday, vertical push/pull wednesday, horizontal push/pull friday. The next week, vertical push/pull monday, etc... Keep interchanging the two workouts. I need to know if this is optimal though. Is it safe to do statics m/w/f - the SAME static holds (not different ones)?

[Blairbob]

is training each exercise 3 times a week (M/W/F) better than prioritizing certain planes of motion each day (ex: horizontal push/pull Monday, vertical push/pull Wednesday

I only have them 3 days in the gym so it's the best that I can do at this time.

1 do the 4 FSP's in a row with little rest in between (a few breaths moving from station to station) and then rest 45-90s. Repeat.

It is safe to do statics/FSP's every day for most. It sort of depends.

Try your program twist and find out.

[Kenneth Manning]

I haven't posted in a long while but have received a few private messages regarding my program so I'll try to address what I've found to work (for me) here.

Just some quick background:

I'm 31 years old, 6'2", 200 lbs. I've been training using the BtGB program now for nearly 17 months straight. I have yet to take a full week off, but have incorporated some "back-off" weeks throughout my training. I will say this about my BtGB experience - this has been for me, the single greatest method of training I've ever used. My overall body strength has never been better and "physique-wise," I'm undoubtably in the best shape of my life.

Though I haven't posted in quite a while, I still log on to the forum pretty much every day to continue to learn and read up on new topics. Though my program has evolved some since I started, the basic template is pretty much the same. The reason I haven't changed "too much" is that I'm still improving and that I still feel I'm in the process of building a base. Once I've achieved all of the FSP's in their most advanced degree, my "base" will be complete (I'm halfway there!).

Now, I would also like to say that the moderators here and some of the regular posters are most likely more knowledgable than me regarding Gymnastic Strength Training™ program design. I assume I've garnered some interest in my program because a lot of people new to this system want to hear what's worked for an "average joe" (i.e. someone with no gymnastics background who has taken the BtGB program and make it work for them). Anyway, here goes:

My basic template has me working out 4 days/week. However, this may fluctuate from 3 days/week to 6 days/week, depending on whether time constraints require me to split up training over 2 days, etc... Sometimes I'll split up my sessions into a morning and evening session, where I work the FSP in the morning and the FBE in the evening. Also, if I have time, I sometimes like to throw in a 5th day to play around with some movements that I'm not quite ready to incorporate into my regular training program.

Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday:

A1) planche training - currently 8 sets of 8 seconds of feet-elevated planche leans

A2) back lever training - currently lowering from invert to 6 second back lever hold, then further lower an additional 45 degrees, hold 2-3 seconds, then reverse and pull back to invert (trying to gradually work towards a technically-sound full german hang --> pull to invert.

(A3) --> I put "A3" in parenthases because after I pull back to invert in the back lever, I go right into my front lever work, which is currently 8 sets of 5 seconds of half lay front lever. I just graduated from 8 sets of 12 seconds of straddle front lever work.

A4) Handstand work - currently working on achieving consistent 20+ second free standing HS holds. For whatever reason, this has been a slooooow process for me. But, I'm getting better over time.

That is my FSP work for all 4 days at the moment. I do 8 sets of everything on monday, tuesday and friday. Thursday is my "light day," where I maintain the same intensity, but drop the sets to 4-5.

FBE work:

Monday:

B1) hands/feet elevated PPPup work. I have marks on the floor in my gym I'll work until I have achieved multiple workouts of a solid 5x5 set/rep scheme. Once achieved, I move my hands back 1 inch. This is similar to my planche lean work. Eventually, as I move my hands further and further back, keeping my feet in the same spot, I'm going to end up in a full planche. This method of training has greatly improved my flat tuck planche, which has been the most difficult of the FSP to achieve.

B2) flat tuck weighted front lever rows - here, I get into a flat tuck FL with my knees pointing straight up (not tucked to my chest) and hang 15 lbs or weights from my ankles. Currently 5 sets of 5 reps (continuing to work on pulling all the way hands to chest)

Tuesday:

B1) Weighted bulgarian ring dips - 20 lbs 6x3. The weight doesn't feel too bad and my arms are staying out correctly from my body (two 45 degree angles); however, I'm still working on getting my elbows in line with my shoulders, as they are still drifting back a bit.

B2) One leg-extended, one tucked TOP pulls. Here, 6 sets of 4 reps (3 sets with left leg extended, 3 with right leg extended). Really working on consistent pulling throughout the motion, maintaining perfectly straight body, and going slow on the negative portion of the lift (6-8 seconds)

Thursday:

B1) weighted SLS - 40 lbs (two 20lb dumbbells) 6x4

B2) band-assisted bent GHR - elite fitness jumpstretch band "mini band" assisting for 6x4

Friday:

B1) HeSPU's 5x5

B2) 1 arm assisted supinated grip chins - off hand is on a chain assisting the pull. I progress by lowering my off hand 1 link at a time once I've achieved 5x5 with both my right and left hands. Progressing nicely on these, once I achieve a full 1 arm pullup, man, I will be ecstatic.

Day 5: various other optional work (always like to throw in some muscle up work to continue to work on my technique, also do some rings series stuff, L-sit variations, etc....)

Just throwing some stuff out there, if anyone has any more questions I"d be more than happy to discuss.

Just FYI, I just achieved my first full 3 second hold front lever about 2 weeks ago. Obviously not ready to start training it yet, hence the half lay FL work, but getting that solid, straight armed/straight body FL was pretty awesome for me.

Thanks,

Ken

[Joshua Naterman]

Great work man! It would be great if you kept a log updated once every week or two! It's good to see another big guy making great progress! I don't know if you care to try this, but external rotator work will probably help your planche progress a lot.

[Kenneth Manning]

Hey,

I'll definitely give that a try. I haven't done any dedicated external rotator work since I started the BtGB program, thanks for the advice!

I've thought about keeping a log, but sometimes the variables in my workouts change so little during chunks of time that I thought it might get a little tedious. Perhaps I'll start monthly progress reports...

Ken

[Razz]

keep a log! It's great motivation for you and everyone else on the forum Personally I'm always pissed off about my progress but now that I'm keeping a log I realise how much I'm actually progressing, trust me it's good!

[Blairbob]

Killroy, I did find it got pretty pointless to post the same workout log data every day. Nothing really changed. Meh.

[Eric Heiden]

This may have been covered somewhere - but when is an appropriate time to move forward to the next progression with FBEs?  How many days should I continue with a current progression if I can achieve the full 5x5 reps?