Standing Desk vs Sitting at a Desk

[Kyle Thorburn]

Hi,

I have recently switched from a regular seated desk to a standing desk.  This will allow me to stand at my office vs sit for approx 4 hrs a day.  Will sitting less contribute to improved mobility?  I currently do Foundation 1 and the full stretch series as per the recommended schedule each week (and have been for about 5 months).  I have read Coach Summers blog on the stretches you should do every couple hours during the day if you sit all day.  Are these still relevant if I have a standing desk?  Are their other stretches I should consider if I am standing more?  

Thanks,

Kyle

[Alessandro Mainente]

Hey Kyle htey are different. the sitting desk has limitations that the standing sit does not have and vice versa.

for example:

-on the sitting desk the arm it is more elevated this means that the pec major and lats are held in an shortened position BUT if you are standing the arms are closer to the body, so, ideally the lats tend to stay shortened and this is not good. the posterior part of the neck tends to become tighter.

-on the sitting desk quads are stretched on the knees but the hip portion it is shortened as the hamstring, while but muscles are always stretched.abs tend to be more shortened. on the standing version the butt muscles are shortened as the long head of hamstring and the knee portion of the quad. the anterior part of the neck tends to become tighter and the posterior stretched and weak.

so sitting it is not good, period.

[Jonas Winback]

To add an additional perspective to a standing posture at work (which I prefer to sitting), and things to consider also:

Gait Posture. 2017 Oct;58:310-318. doi: 10.1016/j.gaitpost.2017.08.024. Epub 2017 Aug 24. Associations of prolonged standing with musculoskeletal symptoms-A systematic review of laboratory studies. Coenen P1, Parry S2, Willenberg L3, Shi JW4, Romero L5, Blackwood DM6, Healy GN7, Dunstan DW8, Straker LM9.

Quote

 

We included 26 articles (from 25 studies with 591 participants), of which the majority examined associations of prolonged standing with low back and lower extremity symptoms. Evidence on other (e.g., upper limb) symptoms was limited and inconsistent.

·        Pooled dose-response associations showed that clinically relevant levels of low back symptoms were reached after 71min of prolonged standing, with this shortened to 42min in those considered pain developers.

·        Regarding standing-related low back symptoms, consistent evidence was found for postural mechanisms (i.e., trunk flexion and lumbar curvature), but not for mechanisms of muscle fatigue and/or variation in movement.

·        Blood pooling was the most consistently reported mechanism for standing-related lower extremity symptoms.

·        To avoid musculoskeletal symptoms (without having a-priori knowledge on whether someone will develop symptoms or not), dose-response evidence from this study suggests a recommendation to refrain from standing for prolonged periods >40min.

 

Basically if it's possible to do a few short breaks with movements, stretching, any type of motion (as well as moving around and changing posture at the work desk a lot also), you'll probably benefit in the long run. There's some evidence in favor of compression socks also, which I personally feel help me (and I sit no more than perhaps 2 hours a day, standing and walking the rest of the time) although I use calf guards instead. It's not just that the improved venous reflow can help prevent venous thromboses, but it might elevate your energy levels a bit too (I feel like I have less of a post-lunch coma after eating when I use those).

So to summarize, prolonged sitting is likely worse than standing (lots of research on lots of things from musculoskeletal problems to metabolic inflexibility), but standing still (or being still too long no matter in what position) is to be avoided if possible

 

 

[Jin Liu]

38 minutes ago, Jonas Winback said:

To add an additional perspective to a standing posture at work (which I prefer to sitting), and things to consider also:

Gait Posture. 2017 Oct;58:310-318. doi: 10.1016/j.gaitpost.2017.08.024. Epub 2017 Aug 24. Associations of prolonged standing with musculoskeletal symptoms-A systematic review of laboratory studies. Coenen P1, Parry S2, Willenberg L3, Shi JW4, Romero L5, Blackwood DM6, Healy GN7, Dunstan DW8, Straker LM9.

Basically if it's possible to do a few short breaks with movements, stretching, any type of motion (as well as moving around and changing posture at the work desk a lot also), you'll probably benefit in the long run. There's some evidence in favor of compression socks also, which I personally feel help me (and I sit no more than perhaps 2 hours a day, standing and walking the rest of the time) although I use calf guards instead. It's not just that the improved venous reflow can help prevent venous thromboses, but it might elevate your energy levels a bit too (I feel like I have less of a post-lunch coma after eating when I use those).

So to summarize, prolonged sitting is likely worse than standing (lots of research on lots of things from musculoskeletal problems to metabolic inflexibility), but standing still (or being still too long no matter in what position) is to be avoided if possible

 

 

Thanks for the article! I have some observations regarding using a standing desk (I hate sitting for prolonged time at work, so I got myself a standing desk at home), and the article's findings are consistent with how I feel about the standing desk. My simple conclusion is that either sitting or standing for a prolonged time period while doing desk work is bad for you (some trained soldiers in some country can stand for hours in a perfect posture, so whatever I have to say may not apply to them).

If you are doing computer work or any desk work, chances are you are focused on what you are doing and ignore how your posture "sags" over time. You can easily sit in a bad posture all day, and only realize it once you start to move certain body parts. Same happens to standing (maybe not all day as you eventually get tired of standing). But there are just as many bad postures while standing, affecting the entire spine from neck to tail bone, hips, knees and even feet (your feet can rotate inwards and put more pressure on the knees), etc. If you have the luxury to rotate between sitting and standing every short time interval without being interrupted at work, that's already better than remaining in one (bad) posture for too long. And besides that, I'd say general overall limbering every now and then, no matter sitting or standing, would be great.

[Jennifer Marie]

I have a desk that can be moved from sitting to standing with the push of a button. I love it, but really, being still and unmoving breaks me regardless. I tend to switch back and forth every hour or so simply because I'm antsy. I also throw in pacing during conference calls and walking to a bathroom on the other side of teh building instead of the one in my section.

Kelly Starrett has a great book called Deskbound that really dives into a lot about the body from breathing with the belly to good posture to "prescriptions" for battling the pains of remaining still all day at the office. 

[Jonas Winback]

Personally I've been using an office treadmill at a slow pace (about 2,5km/h or 1,5 mph) for 1,5 years now. Lots of people commenting on it ask if it's possible to focus on other things at the same time, but being as it's a "passive" walking (i.e. the feet move themselves as a reaction to the movement of the treadmill) it doesn't need active focus, and it's just a matter of getting used to the feeling of working like that. It doesn't suit everybody though.

The sagging of your posture is so hard to avoid, even with the best of posture and physique, given enough standing still. Figuring out a solid routine for limbering and moving around (whether it's on a timer somewhere, in your calendar, or whatever makes it happen the easiest for you) is probably a good investment in the personal health of any office worker.

[Johan Tideland]

When I injured my back (L5, S1 herniated disc) about 2,5 years ago I had pain shooting down my left leg when I was sitting but not standing, thus I had to stand up for basically 6 months.

When I did this I really noticed how modern society is build up around the notion that everyone should sit all the time. 

When I was at a meetings I had to stand up ether next to a wall or in front of my chair. Even tho everyone at work knew about my situation and had sympathy for me, it still made the group dynamic strange because I did something else than the rest of the group. You know when a group of people are standing in a circle and talking and there is one person standing ether outside or sort of half in the circle, that person sort of becomes less valuable and people in the group are less likely to engage in conversation with him/her because of the situation. Of course it is subconscious and people generally do not actively think like that, it just sort of "happens".

That is how it felt for me in an enormous amount of situations. After a while I almost started to introduce myself as "Hi. I am Johan, I have a herniated disc so I can't sit"

Imagine that you are on a company dinner/meeting or a party, there are loads of people there and you only know a few of them. Everyone has to sit down at a large table or several tables but you have to stand behind your chair. Of course the easiest way is to just tell everyone why you have to stand but quite often I found that there was no time or place for doing such.

I went to the cinema with some friends, I warned them about my situation and sad I might have to stand up for parts of the movie.  Of course about 15 mins in to the movie I had so much pain in my leg that just could not sit anymore, I had to go and spend the rest of the movie standing in the corner Later we went to a bar and of course they wanted to find a table to sit at and I had to stand up next to them. I did not mind any of this given my situation but I noticed that it offset the group dynamic and it always felt strange, like I was not part of the group. 

I know that this is not exactly a big problem and I did manage it pretty well, it was not like it deeply scared my soul All I want to do is point out that modern society is not made for standing and ultimately it subconsciously drives everyone in to becoming a coach potato unless you actively do something about it.

just my 2 cents and some embarrassing stories

 

[Étienne Lajeunesse]

1 hour ago, Johan Tideland said:

When I injured my back (L5, S1 herniated disc) about 2,5 years ago I had pain shooting down my left leg when I was sitting but not standing, thus I had to stand up for basically 6 months.

When I did this I really noticed how modern society is build up around the notion that everyone should sit all the time. 

When I was at a meetings I had to stand up ether next to a wall or in front of my chair. Even tho everyone at work knew about my situation and had sympathy for me, it still made the group dynamic strange because I did something else than the rest of the group. You know when a group of people are standing in a circle and talking and there is one person standing ether outside or sort of half in the circle, that person sort of becomes less valuable and people in the group are less likely to engage in conversation with him/her because of the situation. Of course it is subconscious and people generally do not actively think like that, it just sort of "happens".

That is how it felt for me in an enormous amount of situations. After a while I almost started to introduce myself as "Hi. I am Johan, I have a herniated disc so I can't sit"

Imagine that you are on a company dinner/meeting or a party, there are loads of people there and you only know a few of them. Everyone has to sit down at a large table or several tables but you have to stand behind your chair. Of course the easiest way is to just tell everyone why you have to stand but quite often I found that there was no time or place for doing such.

I went to the cinema with some friends, I warned them about my situation and sad I might have to stand up for parts of the movie.  Of course about 15 mins in to the movie I had so much pain in my leg that just could not sit anymore, I had to go and spend the rest of the movie standing in the corner Later we went to a bar and of course they wanted to find a table to sit at and I had to stand up next to them. I did not mind any of this given my situation but I noticed that it offset the group dynamic and it always felt strange, like I was not part of the group. 

I know that this is not exactly a big problem and I did manage it pretty well, it was not like it deeply scared my soul All I want to do is point out that modern society is not made for standing and ultimately it subconsciously drives everyone in to becoming a coach potato unless you actively do something about it.

just my 2 cents

 

What a path!  Happy to know that your recovered well, after all this!

And yeah!  As humans, we are made to move, not stay in one place for hours.

As a private trainer, I move a lot (walking, sitting, standing, showing exercises) and that's part of why I feel good now! But I see so many people having such big problems, I wouldn't be at their place.  I raise my hat to all of you who are trying to figure out (and work as well) to improve their quality of life

[Jonas Winback]

Johan, I can recognize myself in every single thing you just wrote I had a herniated L5/S1 disc myself 5 years ago and went through the same journey, both physically and socially. In hindsight maybe it was a blessing more than a curse though, to force myself to have to redefine my entire environment physically and ergonomically. I remember how sore my feet were the first weeks of being forced to stand up most of the time at work, but nowadays I don't even think about it. I sit maybe 2 hours a day at the most (lunch, supper, "fika"-hours, etc), and could sit twice as much without any problems, but I don't really have any physical nor mental need for it anymore.

Might be off-topic now, but anyway... GB exercises have done wonders for my back; the mobility through jefferson curls etc, as well as the core strengthening exercises.

[Suzanna McGee]

I also like—and it is maybe easier for me, as I am not in a "real" office, but my home office—to squat deep and be in that position while working on my computer. It used to be super uncomfortable, but it's quite fine now. And I change it up with sitting on the floor, in a straddle, half-lotus, or 90/90 sit. Which at the same time is doing a little extra stretch work for me.