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Rampage

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Rampage

When you're training handstands, should you always do handstand pushups with the wall too so that you build strength quicker for the handstand hold, or should you only train handstands first and then when you get proficient start training the HSPU's with the wall?

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jl5555

If you're just working on freestanding HS than I'm not so sure I'd be spending too much time doing against the wall HSPU. Personally, if it was strength in the shoulder girdle you think you lack then I'd be doing HS wall runs.

I may be entirely wrong but I don't see much of a connection between good handstands and the ability to do HSPU. I think handstands are more about good shoulder girdle flexibility, strength there and proper alignment and balance. HSPU seems to involve other muscle groups not integral to good HS.

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Blairbob

Hmm, I would continue working on the free HS while building strength doing whatever HSPU progression on the wall. However, don't make the wall your crotch as eventually you have to get off the wall.

To do this however, you will need the ability to have a decent free HS.

1. Hespu from a HeS.

2. Lower to HeS and pushup to HS

I find HS wall runs work the shoulder girdle more (deltoid) while HSPU progressions work the entire shoulder girdle. As well, you need to be proficient with HS wall runs before you have much of a chance working HS walking which will lead into pirouettes and more advanced HS acrobatics ( one arm, obstacle course ).

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Rampage
Hmm, I would continue working on the free HS while building strength doing whatever HSPU progression on the wall. However, don't make the wall your crotch as eventually you have to get off the wall.

To do this however, you will need the ability to have a decent free HS.

1. Hespu from a HeS.

2. Lower to HeS and pushup to HS

I find HS wall runs work the shoulder girdle more (deltoid) while HSPU progressions work the entire shoulder girdle. As well, you need to be proficient with HS wall runs before you have much of a chance working HS walking which will lead into pirouettes and more advanced HS acrobatics ( one arm, obstacle course ).

Yeah, I know that eventually you will have to get off the wall. But what's considered a "decent" free hs? 1 minute free hs? 40 seconds? 3 minutes?

Recently I just have not been able to make any progress at all in the wall hs (as opposed to the FL progressions, I've been making a lot of progress very fast), I usually always top out at 40 seconds, and if I'm lucky sometimes I get to 50 but only once or twice.

I think that what was setting me back all this time in the wall hs progress, was doing them supported by the wall, i.e.: I would get my wrists as close as I could to the wall, but then I would just put my chest or whatever part of my body against the wall, and I would hold the hs with my body against the wall all the time, I never used to do that until someone here recommended I did.

But last night I had enough of that and I started doing them like I did them before: I would get set as close as comfortable and then push off the wall and attempt to hold it without touching the wall as much as I could, and I would only touch the wall if I would fall back of course and then push off again. I did several sets of these last night and already I felt better and got better results.

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Rampage

As a side note: is training on carpet counterproductive in any way, as opposed to training on a hard, brick floor? As you all obviously know almost all the floors of the rooms here in America are all carpet, and I used to train the hs and pl progressions on hard floor, but now I'm doing them on carpet.

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Richard Duelley

I find going from carpet (or spring floor) to hard floor to just be a bit annoying for handstand work. The responsiveness and feel is different but after 1 or 2 holds I adapt well to the new surface and my session goes smoothly. I am making a platform so I can have a constant surface no matter where I go. This is only for serious handstand practice sessions if I just want to mess around I don’t care about the surface. I do think it is very important to vary the surface though. . . mostly so you can get that awesome picture at the beach or at the top of a mountain or where ever life takes you! :mrgreen:

Basically I dont feel that the carpet is counterproductive in any way so have at it and keep up the hard work!

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Rampage
I find going from carpet (or spring floor) to hard floor to just be a bit annoying for handstand work. The responsiveness and feel is different but after 1 or 2 holds I adapt well to the new surface and my session goes smoothly. I am making a platform so I can have a constant surface no matter where I go. This is only for serious handstand practice sessions if I just want to mess around I don’t care about the surface. I do think it is very important to vary the surface though. . . mostly so you can get that awesome picture at the beach or at the top of a mountain or where ever life takes you! :mrgreen:

Basically I dont feel that the carpet is counterproductive in any way so have at it and keep up the hard work!

Yeah. I suppose carpet is "easier" or "softer" on your hands than hard floor, and I think you can also get a much better grip on carpet. I really have no choice in the house I'm in right now, because the only place I could work on the hard floor is in the hallway outside my room, but there's not much space and I have to take my shoes off so I don't get the white wall dirty (I always train as I would normally dress, pants/shorts and shoes, that way my weight is always constant and then I just replicate it outside). The other place would be the garage, but it seems like the floor is uneven, it all looks like it has a slide and you can notice it so that's why I don't use it, because I like working on an even surface.

I'm not complaining though, my room is very big and I have plenty of space that I can even get out of a hs with a forward roll or falling to either side and the wall I train in is wooden so it doesn't even get dirty with my shoes, but I just wanted to check the carpet thing.

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Joshua Naterman

Nothing wrong with carpet. I do it on carpet, hardwood, cement, and grass, depending on where I'm at. How are you doing with your workouts?

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Rampage
Nothing wrong with carpet. I do it on carpet, hardwood, cement, and grass, depending on where I'm at. How are you doing with your workouts?

I'm doing a lot better, thanks, but these last days I've gotten "overwhelmed" yet again because each day I'm getting ideas of new exercises and things like that (this just causes me to try some exercises while overlooking the ones I should be doing), but in the planche training I tend to get stuck because I don't like the frog stand but then the tuck planche is still too hard for me to say that I'm actually making any progress.

I've done more progress on the FL progressions than anything though; I tend to like this one more because it's more "simple" to me.

I wanted to ask you though: what are good exercises to start the day off and/or warm up? The declined push-ups that I did?

Sometimes I just wish time would stop. Who doesn't wish that haha...

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Joshua Naterman

HAHAHA I know what you mean! Outside of a general warm up with some jumping rope, jumping jacks, arm circles, etc to get the blood moving, easy versions of whatever you're going to do are great. The push ups are great, and so are easy pull ups/chin ups, or just low numbers like two or three of them if you normally do seven or eight. For legs I usually do BW squats and squat jumps before I work the SLS, but now I'm greasing the groove with HSPU, SLS, PPP, and some uneven pull ups. Just 2 reps per set, a bunch of times per day. Once an hour when I can, but at least 7 or 8 times a day. Can't really warm up for GTG, but then you're supposed to do relatively easy stuff when GTG'ing anyhow.

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mike.m

I just started doing handstands after 34 handstand free years and they are fun ! They do a great job of working the upper body. My question is how often should I do them a week ? I usually do them against a wall for 20 secs or so 5 times.

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Joshua Naterman

That really depends on how close to your limits you are working. For example:

When I am doing 5 sets of 5 HSPU, I am working close to my limits. I need around 4 days of pretty much handstand-free time to recover from that if I want to do another workout of HSPU and be productive. However, if I just do this HSPU work once a week, I can do one day of longer handstand holds, perhaps 30-50 seconds on the wall for 4-5 sets. I have to wait a few days to do that, and then a few more days to do more HeSPU.

When I am 'greasing the groove' I am doing sets of 2 HeSPU, 7-10 sets throughout the day. I can do this 3-4 days a week, and instead of 10 sets of HeSPU I can do maybe 6 sets and do 4-5 sets of 15 second handstand holds, and still do this 3-4 days a week without over-reaching. If you compare the numbers, I'm doing 2-3x the amount of reps with the GTG, but because these are small sessions many times a day I am giving my body a chance to repair after each set and replenish energy substrates, while not dipping deeply into reserves. This means that my body doesn't have to waste time regenerating glycogen stores, which takes around 48 hours to do completely from what I have read. Obviously that timeframe could be a bit shorter depending on how deeply you tap that resource. My sets are small, with large rests(an hour or more), more than enough time to regenerate the creatine phosphate and raw atp that my body is using for these sets.

You can also try and do an in-between protocol, where you do one workout a few times a week(2-3, depending on what you can handle), with moderate intensity and moderate volume.

These all work when done within the constraints of your body. You may find, as pretty much all advanced athletes do, that switching from one scheme to another almost every week will allow for the most progress, or you may choose to stick to just one because your personal time commitments don't allow you to do a certain protocol, or perhaps you just plain don't want to.

It is a good idea to figure out for yourself just what your limits are for those three protocols, because no one can do that for you. Once you've done that, you'll know how to program for success no matter what you do or what your time commitments allow.

If you're working with half your maximum time, you should be able to get away with a few times a week, 3-5, as long as you a) either GTG or are very careful about not doing too much, just a few sets (3-5, and not 5 every time), and b) are not doing a whole lot of other shoulder and tricep work.

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Leandro

Not so long ago my handstand was terrible, I could hold not longer than 5 seconds. BUT, I could perform easly 10 HSPU with the feet on the wall (floor, not PB).

I spent some time trying to figure what was stoping me from keeping the HS, and I realised it was forearm strength, because you maintain balance pressing the fingers to the ground. I spent some time doing forearm exercises, along with the planche progressions, and my handstand improved a lot! I never checked, but I think I can hold HS now for 20 secs.

So I guess you don't need a solid handstand to perform HSPU, spotted on the wall. But It doesn't mean it will help you with handstand proficiency, I think...

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