Getinthecar Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Look at the first excersice. Handstand against stall bars. Will it help my freestanding handstand?2sDadEB6IOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmcron Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 what he's doing is Ido's bodyline wall drill:http://idoportal.blogspot.com/2009/07/f ... _4249.htmlquC8faQJKIs I don't think the stall bars are essential, but stomach-to-wall handstands are a great way to practice a good handstand-position.( usually do it on a normal wall, not stall bars) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 That drill helps develop the straight body handstand position, which is preferred in gymnastics these days. You slowly learn to open your shoulders.For actual transitioning to free balancing, I have found that back to wall handstands are far better for developing the freestanding holds. I definitely still use the stomach to wall, but that's for shoulder strength and body line. The back against the wall makes it easy to slowly come off of the wall and be freestanding without the fear of falling onto your back. I did this ONE TIME for a 20 second freestanding hold with my back to the wall and my heels about a half inch off the wall, and was immediately able to duplicate that in the middle of the floor. That literally doubled my freestanding average in 20 seconds. I've only used that drill for one week and I can already start leaning side to side in my handstands!Make SURE you use Ido's drill so you keep learning how to achieve a straighter handstand, but also watch his locomotion training, especially the advanced. Eventually, for true handstand mastery, you want to be able to move in all kinds of ways on your hands, and Ido shows a very good method for developing this ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Lizard, from a stomach to wall HS, you can come off the wall with one foot still on or tapping the wall but there is a risk of falling or rolling out. This teaches to lean and put the weight into the wrists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 I know that, and that's how I did it at first, but I have found the comfort level to be far greater with the back to wall and my ability to hold my body as straight as my shoulders allow is not compromised. I guess I'll have to make a video to explain it, because you aren't understanding why I am saying what I am saying. When you have your back to the wall. and you slowly pull yourself OFF the wall, you are doing so with your wrists and by correcting body position. I am very, very close to the wall. Fingertips are an inch away. I am already completely vertical and straight, and by having the back to the wall it teaches me to correct myself when I start falling over backwards. I have built the confidence and the skill to catch and keep my balance even when I feel like I'm going over onto my back, and I got that from the back to wall.I use them both, because they teach different aspects of handbalancing, but my freebalancing has benefited far more from the back to wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getinthecar Posted February 18, 2010 Author Share Posted February 18, 2010 Thanks guys. So for developing my freestanding handstand it's best to make use both ways. Back to wall --->longer handstand--->better freestanding handstandStomach to wall--->straighter handstand--->better freestanding handstand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Gymnastically speaking, yes.They also both help you learn different ways to use your wrists and hands to keep your balance, so they're both useful in that sense as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jl5555 Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Does anyone have any idea what your HS skill level is currently? How long can you hold against the wall currently? Have you tried freestanding? What happened there?I admire sLizzardman and bob for trying to help answer your question but it seems like without more information everything is just a guess and not going to be very helpful.I'm also not sure I follow your logic:Back to wall --->longer handstand--->better freestanding handstandStomach to wall--->straighter handstand--->better freestanding handstandThere are so many variables involved that I don't know those follow each other. It's somewhat axiomatic that more time spent practicing handstands in general will lead to better handstands. My personal logic could also apply thus:Beer makes me happy ---> happy people do longer/straighter handstands ---> better freestanding handstand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Weill Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Why is it necessary in a stomach-to-wall handstand to bring the wrists to the base of the wall? I find that my wall handstand is more straight when my wrists are not...Note: I can only hold a free handstand for 5 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Schlaff, the idea is that you stay straight by opening your shoulders. Most of us, including me, can not do that when our wrists are at the wall. I just don't have that flexibility. I'm starting to work on it by stretching my chest and lats, but it'll be a while.All I am saying is that the back to wall handstands keep you from falling onto your back, which gives you the ability to make small adjustments in posture and centering of balance on the hands without falling over and having to kick back up to regain the position. If you screw up, your heels touch the wall. So you adjust, pull back off, and hold again. It allows for fine tuning of the balance so that you learn not to fall onto your back.Stomach to wall allows you to learn how to not fall back onto your feet in the handstand, and is an easier position to work on body line. They serve different purposes, at least for me, and it is working very, very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getinthecar Posted February 18, 2010 Author Share Posted February 18, 2010 Does anyone have any idea what your HS skill level is currently? How long can you hold against the wall currently? Have you tried freestanding? What happened there?I admire sLizzardman and bob for trying to help answer your question but it seems like without more information everything is just a guess and not going to be very helpful.I'm also not sure I follow your logic:Back to wall --->longer handstand--->better freestanding handstandStomach to wall--->straighter handstand--->better freestanding handstandThere are so many variables involved that I don't know those follow each other. It's somewhat axiomatic that more time spent practicing handstands in general will lead to better handstands. My personal logic could also apply thus:Beer makes me happy ---> happy people do longer/straighter handstands ---> better freestanding handstandTrue, without more info it's just a guess. So to give you some more details I can hold a freestanding handstand for 15sec. My handstand is not straight. My back has a bit of an arch. I can hold a Back to wall for 90sec before it gets really unfomfortable. I can hold a Stomach to wall handstand for 60sec.Again thanks for the info everyone. I really aprecciate itI will incorporate these 'stands' in my handstand training. See what works best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Carr Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 It seems like back to wall handstands wouldnt be as beneficial because you're supposed to look at your hands for a good handstand, which would involve tilting your head up. With back to wall, doing that would run your head into the wall and make u tilt back, as well as be really uncomfortable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Slightly offtopic, but I've never understood why anyone would want to look at their hands in HS. Isn't it more natural and relaxed to keep your head neutral and simply look to the front? Makes the alignment easier as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Looking at your hands while keeping your ears covered puts the shoulder in a stronger position. It's also a really good idea on rings and parallel bars. During giants as you move through HS, the head can stay neutral. They serve different purposes Kudos. Until Coach Sommer releases his book, " The Handstand Chronicles; " we are all just trying to figure it out. If you put your wrists all the way next to the wall, you may in effect close the angle of your shoulder which puts more load on the shoulder and makes the HS more difficult, besides closing the shoulder. While a 55lb boy is very narrow in cross-section, a 165lb male is much wider and a 220lb male wider even more. My friend Roger Harrell said something like ( I'm probably completely butchering it ) how good we would be on our hands if we walked on them as much as our feet. Like a child first learns to walk on their feet, that's what we have to in effect do until the point we can walk on our hands as well as our feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Weill Posted February 20, 2010 Share Posted February 20, 2010 Until Coach Sommer releases his book, " The Handstand Chronicles; " we are all just trying to figure it out.Amen.If you put your wrists all the way next to the wall, you may in effect close the angle of your shoulder which puts more load on the shoulder and makes the HS more difficult, besides closing the shoulder. While a 55lb boy is very narrow in cross-section, a 165lb male is much wider and a 220lb male wider even more. Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Is the wrists-closer-to-the-wall thing important for strengthening the handstand rather than working on form? It would seem that way to me because one has to close his shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Until Coach Sommer releases his book, " The Handstand Chronicles; " we are all just trying to figure it out.Amen.If you put your wrists all the way next to the wall, you may in effect close the angle of your shoulder which puts more load on the shoulder and makes the HS more difficult, besides closing the shoulder. While a 55lb boy is very narrow in cross-section, a 165lb male is much wider and a 220lb male wider even more. Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Is the wrists-closer-to-the-wall thing important for strengthening the handstand rather than working on form? It would seem that way to me because one has to close his shoulders.He means that my chest and torso is much bigger than a skinny guy's, so I'm simply not going to be able to get my wrists all the way to the wall and still maintain open shoulders. I'll reach a point where my choices are 1) I change my shoulder angle, or 2) I fall over onto my back because my center of gravity will be past my fingertips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Thanks, Lizard. That's exactly what I was trying to get across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Weill Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Thanks for the clarification Slizz. Does it mean that guys with barrel chests like me and you will never be able to balance on the wall with wrist making contact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Well, not with open shoulders! For me the limit is 3-4 inches. Now, I can't open my shoulders all the way, but as I open my shoulders my chest actually goes towards the wall, so I'm pretty sure that's the limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Weill Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 Okay. I will just for focus on opening my shoulders and less my wrist placement for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jl5555 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 It seems like back to wall handstands wouldnt be as beneficial because you're supposed to look at your hands for a good handstandIs this true? It seems easier to do a HS when you look at your hands but I regularly try to move my head around a bit including looking back up and straight out. If you're very proficient and exploring boundaries it's probably even a good idea to close your eyes from time to time. You're trying to "feel" the handstand as much as possible so your body knows how best to position itself in balance....which would involve tilting your head up. With back to wall, doing that would run your head into the wall and make u tilt back, as well as be really uncomfortableAs part of pike-up HS training I do back-against-the-wall HS and do LL that way. You really have no choice but to learn not to tilt your head into the wall. Odd at first not to mention very uncomfortable but it comes eventually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Weaver Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 I like to spend a lot of time working my handstand on parallettes as well. I find it easier to work on alignment in a free-standing handstand on parallettes because I can use my forearms and wrists more to balance. On the floor my freestanding is 15-20 seconds. On the parallettes, it's almost twice that.One advantage of stomach-to-wall, for me at least, is that when I lose my balance and come out of a free-standing handstand on the floor it's almost always stomach first, because I can't pull on anything to straighten out. When I'm falling back first, I can push with my hands and straighten out. Stomach to wall helps me because I don't have to fall all the way out, just a few inches till my toes hit the wall, and then I can push off a little bit. If I fall back first, I can usually push with my hands to stay up.What would be nice is a wall in front AND a wall in back that forces you into the correct alignment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animalonfire Posted April 18, 2010 Share Posted April 18, 2010 What would be nice is a wall in front AND a wall in back that forces you into the correct alignment.Narrow corridors and "deep" doorways are great! Straddle/tucking on your way up is a bit awkward but a cast wall walk generally gets me up. Can be fun when someone wants to get past also (move to one side but stay on your hands!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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