Back to gymnastics! Need some advices (FS, press to HS...)

[Leandro]

Hello all!

I'm back to gymnastics some months ago (I'm 31, and I practiced some years on childhood), and I'm pretty exited with this site and others like skills and drills, beastskills, etc. The info is just amazing!

So my first goals in the strength part is to perform a press to handstand, and work on frog stand and tuck front lever, thinking in developing later the planche and the real front lever.

So one of my questions is if working on frog stand, both normal and advanced one will help me also to develop the necessary strength to do a press to handstand?? I can do 10 handstand pushups on the ground, and 4 on paralletes (both with feet on wall), and I can hold a handstand for 10 seconds sometimes, but I still don't have the strength to do a PresstoHS.

Now there's some flexibility missing, but it's not much. I feel that I can't activate the muscles on the legs when my weigth is going to the shoulders and that is one os the things that is stoping me, I think... I also can't totally lift the hips before the legs because of flexibility..

About wrists, can wrist flexibility be improved? My coach insists that I'm missing wrist strength but I think it's flexibility, because when I put the shoulders forward, and they start passing the line of the hands on the ground I feel an enormous pressure on the wrists (i'm 1,83cm with 92kg btw). What's funny is when I'm working the FS very hard i can go much forward with the shoulders and the pain on the wrists seems lesser.

That's it, sorry for the bad english!

[Joshua Naterman]

It's strength, plus you may need to change your hand positioning. Your metacarpal muscles and tendons, as well as the wrist tendons and I don't even know what else, are not strong enough to hold your bones in place. That's why it doesn't feel good. Same thing happens to me. I just work on strengthening my hands and wrists by holding the positions, working the wrist series when I remember, and doing thick bar work.

[Blairbob]

It takes time for your wrists and hands to acclimate. Mine are for the most part, better than they were 6 or 7 years ago within the last year by just spending more time on my hands, but whenever I'm off my hands for a bit they can ache a bit getting back into it.

Still, it has been a LONG time since they were this solid.

[Leandro]

Thanks, so I will just continue to work the positions!

Also, is the strength developed in the frog stand the same needed for a press to handstand?

I find them kinda similar due to the weigth on shoulders thing.

I wanna know this because I don't have enough flexibility yet to perform the press, but I want to work on the strength demands already, so when I get the needed flexibility the press will be easier.

[Blairbob]

A press to HS needs shoulder girdle strength but is dependent on how much you can engage your hip flexors and compress your straddle. It's a sliding scale of both.

So if you have a weak straddle-L but a very strong shoulder girdle then the press is likely to happen. I have a boy like this in my program and one that is completely the opposite but has a cleaner "textbook" press. And I have another boy who has a bit of both worlds yet stockier body type.

Most of our kids at the gym find their wrists having to deal with a lot of pressure when doing wall HS negative presses or straddle-downs.

Wrist flexibility can be improved. Ask anyone who has ever done any aikido or jujutsu. You'll find over years, they develop really flexible wrists sometimes...if they work on it (besides being thrown a lot).

[Leandro]

Thanks a lot for the answers! I know you people are very patient with the beginers, as I see all around the forum. Thats what makes this site so good!

I understood everything you said but the hip flexors. It's just that I can't find the portuguese translation for "hip flexors". By "engage your hip flexors and compress your straddle" you mean to contract the muscles on the legs as my feet get off the ground?

[Blairbob]

basically, yes. hip flexors are a group of muscles that are used to and while flexing the hip.

In a straddle-L or straddle lever as it's sometimes called, they help get your feet off the ground while your butt is in the air.

[Leandro]

Got it! Thank you.

[Leandro]

It seems I just realized how weak my wrists are. I can't hold a tuck planche mainly because of the wrists, and also I can't even hang myself on rings or bar with the false grip.

I'm adding the wrist pushups to my routines for now. I'm also curious to know what is the thick bar work. I couldn't find it in the forum. Btw, I read a lot of your posts about elbows and wrists slizzardman, they are very helpfull.

So, my last question on this topic, I promisse: What is the thick bar work?

[Joshua Naterman]

Hahaha, the more questions the better, as long as you don't ask me about SLURM.

Thick bar work refers to literally using a thick bar, 2.5-3" thick depending on your hand size. Deadlifts( or other grip work like farmer walks), reverse curls, and bicep curls are really the only things that I can think of that are directly beneficial to gymnastics. Benching, to some degree as well.

For the deadlifts or farmer walks, the thick bar forces you to use the entire musculature of the hand. Obviously, you won't be using anywhere close to regular weight. I can't even do 50% of what I work out with on the olympic bar when I deadlift, for example. I deadlift 455 for sets of 4 and I can get 205 about to my knees now, before I lose it with the thick bar. Mine's 2 and 7/8", almost 3" thick. I used 2.5" schedule 40 PVC. The sizes are always internal diameter, so with nearly 1/4" thick pipe the diameter becomes 2 and 7/8". This develops strength in the muscles and tendons all over the wrist, on all sides.

Reverse curls are to be done very lightly, I am at 45 lbs right now. They help with the inner elbow flexors, as pre-hab for inner elbow straight arm work, such as planche work. Bicep curls serve the same purpose, but they hit a different set of muscles and also require and build lots of wrist strength, so together they help build strength and stability in the wrist positions we use in the planche.

The grip and curling work helps a lot with handstands, because as your hands and wrists get stronger it becomes easier to balance.

As far as the benching goes, again it is much harder than olympic bar. You're forced to lift powerlifting style, with elbows close to the body. This actually builds a lot more strength than flaring your elbows and does not lead to shoulder issues when done properly. All of the muscles have to work harder to move a given amount of weight with the thick bar because the center of gravity isn't as close to the hands, and the bar is thicker so you have to work harder to keep control of it. Outside of being a better strength builder, it is also good for real world lifting. Nothing in the real world is 1" thick and heavy enough to crush you lol! Trees are thick and heavy. Thick bar work builds the strength necessary to move large objects in real life, especially with the bench.

[Leandro]

Sounds intresting.

Too bad I don't have access to a thick bar. Also I never deadlifted...

Guess I will stick with frogstand with forward fingers, and the advanced one with fingers back or side. I'm hoping the wrist pushups do the job for me. For the false grip, witch is my most frustrating thing, I can only think about hanging with the false grip on bar and rings and keep the feet on the ground and slowly removing them.

[Joshua Naterman]

And do them with bent arms. The more bent your arms are the easier the false grip is. Use chalk, and slowly build up to doing the false grip pull ups. A good progression is to follow the pull up progression in the book, starting with the horizontal rows(i think that might be in front elver row, actually) and when you can do those with the false grip start working the pull ups!

[Leandro]

Thanks! I will probably buy the book next month, so I will add these to my training!

Soon (I hope lol) I will post my results!