Effect of strength training on mobility gains from static stretching

[David Klausen]

Hello.

From 2008-2015 I did predominantly weight-training.
I started F1+H1 and stretch series in 2015, which I did haphazardly while still lifting weights for a full year.
Roughly 6 months ago I doubled down on GST, and removed weight training 100% from my weekly training plan. The main reason why I removed weight training was that I was not happy with the flexibility/mobility gains I was getting which I concluded was due to a lackluster focus on GST and interference from strength training. One of my main mobility goals is to get a flat pike, with chest to knees. Hamstrings have always been my tightest muscle group, and I'm fully prepared that it might take another year or two before I reach my flat pike.

One thing that prompted me to stop weightlifting was a couple of days this summer spent searching google scholar for studies on passive stretching, where I found several studies that showed lifting weights severely reduced the mobility gains from doing static stretching. Here's an example of the kind of study I mean:
http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/abstract/2005/11000/interaction_between_resistance_training_and.20.aspx

The group that did strength training+stretching had almost half the gains in mobility than the group that did stretching only. 
Here's another one: http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/8531617
I'm unable to find the study which had the most drastic result, but I remember reading a study where the group that did passive stretches only had 5 times more gains in mobility than the group that did passive stretching + weight training.

I recently became very unsure about my own decision to remove weight training completely, as I came across some other studies showing the exact opposite result.
https://www.facebook.com/StrengthandConditioningResearch/photos/a.314294568681572.67805.173905069387190/1054640644646957/?type=3&theater

Here, the group that did stretching + weight training had twice the mobility gain of the group that did stretching only.

I took out weight training thinking I would see faster gains in mobility. I've seen gains in mobility, but I've changed so many variables over the last year I can't tell if removing squats really made a positive impact. I would like to add some squats back in to my weekly program if it doesn't hurt my mobility gains. 

Does anyone have any useful experience on this?
 

 

[Everett Carroll]

Hey David,

I've spent the last few years focusing on the single leg squat/fundmental leg strength in the Foundation Series and have steadily improved both my strength and mobility. I suggest checking out that series and working on mastering your single leg squat work while focusing on mobility before adding weighted leg work into your routine. The nice thing about the single leg squat progressions is they bulletproof your knees, hips, and ankles as well as build a surplus of basic strength for weighted lower body training later. I'm sure that by the time you have mastered those progressions and progress to the weighted lower body work, your mobility will be tremendously improved . For now, I suggest you master the basics. 

[David Klausen]

 

2 hours ago, Everett Carroll said:

Hey David,

I've spent the last few years focusing on the single leg squat/fundmental leg strength in the Foundation Series and have steadily improved both my strength and mobility. I suggest checking out that series and working on mastering your single leg squat work while focusing on mobility before adding weighted leg work into your routine. The nice thing about the single leg squat progressions is they bulletproof your knees, hips, and ankles as well as build a surplus of basic strength for weighted lower body training later. I'm sure that by the time you have mastered those progressions and progress to the weighted lower body work, your mobility will be tremendously improved . For now, I suggest you master the basics. 

I'm currently at SLS PE8 (Hawaiian squats), trying to condition my ankles. Doing 5x5 is almost effortless if I have a 1'' support under my heel or Oly-lifting shoes on, but I really struggle with the ankles if I stand on flat ground.
What I notice so far with the SLS work is that it does not put nearly as much mechanical tension on the hamstrings as a set of squats or deadlifts do. By the very boimechanical nature of the Single Leg Squat, it is much more quad dominant. I don't get very sore from doing hawaiian squats, and not sore at all in my hamstrings. I would however get some soreness from doing weighted squats even with just moderate weights. My personal hypothesis is that it is the soreness one gets from lifting weights that slows down gains in mobility. My current plan is to follow GST to master SLS, reach full pike and full pancake, THEN start building strength with weights again

 

 

[Leo Trinidad]

Hi @David Klausen,

 

When you reach the later progressions of the SLS of the Foundation Series then you'll definitely get your hamstrings sore. For now, building the soft tissues around the knee and ankles will greatly benefit you in preparation for the more harder progressions.

[Suzanna McGee]

13 hours ago, David Klausen said:

and not sore at all in my hamstrings.

In a few progressions, when you do the one-legged sliding bridges, your hamstrings will be screaming for help and you will remember the Hawaiian squats phase with a warm heart  lol, at least, I do…  

[Jin Liu]

Hi David, just speaking for myself. I noticed my ankle mobility increased a ton after doing both GST and ATG squats since late this summer. I couldn't sit comfortably in the full Hawaiian squats (with butt resting on your supporting ankle) at all before bc I don't have enough mobility in the ankles or hips. Now I can easily sit on my either one of my ankle for a minute and stand up from there with one foot. I think both GST and the weighted ATG squats helped, and I wouldn't gain that much ankle mobility in just several months without either one.