Timy7 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Friend of mine is looking for a guide to the Iron Cross. I have already nailed one, but I think he is looking for something written.Anyone have any suggestions? He is already VERY consistent and solid with the the basic strength so no worries there.Thanks for any help in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Picó García Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 http://www.cathletics.com/articles/inde ... hortyID=32Great article from a forum member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Good article.Just my two sentence about article:1. It's Push down/press down and not pull exercise (pull would be from dead hang pull to cross)2. Isometrics are very important!!! If you won't do them, you will not know when to start decelerate speed, not have good feeling in the perfect cross position. And I would do them somwhere after the begining of the exercise (after the first exercise or after shorter first exercise), so you would be a litlle more stronger due to better warming up for maximal stress.Either way, it's very good article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeS Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 At my gym there's a lat pulldown machine with two separate handles. It's perfect for training iron crosses because when you do it with straight arms its exactly in the ROM of the IC. When I started using it I could do just 3 reps with 90#. Now I'm up to 130# which tells me if I was a typical gymnast size I could do an IC! Unfortunately I weigh 185# so I got a ways to go. :oops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal Winkler Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 You probably won't be able to do an iron cross when you reach your bodyweight on that machine. Doing it on the rings will be harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeS Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Of course it will be harder on the rings. The machine is just a convenient way to develop the basic strength. The skill will have to be developed separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Once upon a time, I used one of those machines to do assistance work for the MU and IC as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 They aren't bad, but you won't be developing what you think It's a good idea, and if performed with locked elbows could certainly be an excellent accessory exercise, but you should be spending just as much time going into progressively wider ring supports. It is a different type of stress, because of the body tension required. If all you do is the machine, you are going to be very disappointed when you get on the rings, even after you have adapted to them. Use bands to help increase the ROM safely on the rings. Good luck and good training to you Joe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animalonfire Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 I supposedly crossed(could have done waaay more, but it was only out becasue gymnastics coach was trying to show people how to false grip for a MUp , I was particularly smug after witnessing 3 large well built guys flailing their legs at the top of a chin up and I strolled along and chugged out 3 in a row:P-anyway) 70Kg on one of those machines. Impressive at a body weight of about 68kg no? The moral of the story?(out of brackets) Metric is not to be confused with imperial! Perhaps a bit off topic, but I felt like sharing . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braindx Posted February 28, 2010 Share Posted February 28, 2010 Yeah, I wrote that article above.If you have any questions feel free to ask.If I would write it again I probably would change some stuff. More strength and joint preparation work is an obvious one.BTW Timy message me on AIM or e-mail me. We haven't talked in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braindx Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Good article.Just my two sentence about article:1. It's Push down/press down and not pull exercise (pull would be from dead hang pull to cross)2. Isometrics are very important!!! If you won't do them, you will not know when to start decelerate speed, not have good feeling in the perfect cross position. And I would do them somwhere after the begining of the exercise (after the first exercise or after shorter first exercise), so you would be a litlle more stronger due to better warming up for maximal stress.Either way, it's very good article1. It's a pull exercise."Pull" exercises universally bring an object's center of mass towards you while pushing moves them away.In the case of a cross, your body is the mass and center of mass is approximately at your hips -- when you are in a cross you are PULLING your hands down towards your sides. Adduction is primarily a pulling movement. About 45 degrees angle with the body (approximately maltese lean angle) you can say it becomes a pressing/pushing movement, but there is NO DOUBT the iron cross itself (isometric) is a pulling exercise much like the back lever and front lever. Hell, they work the same muscles in general.Butterfly is a pull too (obviously).I generally don't like the center of mass argument but it's the formal definition. I like to classify gymnastics movements according to the generalized weightlifting definitions of flexions/abduction which use the triceps, chest, etc. being primarily pushing, and extension/adduction movements which use mostly the back/biceps/etc. However, the problem with these in bodyweight movements is that most of the bodyweight movements use all of them extensively, so I don't think it's a good measure in most cases. On the other hand, it is a sound basis, IMO, for planning a routine to keep optimal shoulder balance so as not to create any strength deficits.2. I agree isometrics are important. I wouldn't start with many of them at all (except during lowers with 1-2s holds) but I would progressively add them in as you get stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Push the rings down or pull the hands to your body...I always think about pushing the rings down and not pulling my hands to my body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braindx Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Push the rings down or pull the hands to your body...I always think about pushing the rings down and not pulling my hands to my body.Like I said.. it's kinda ambigous because it changes mid movement.I tell my guys to "pull" the rings in to their sides. Doesn't really matter as long as they get used to doing it correctly.Though no doubt cross isometric is pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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