How to sls with long legs

[terpol]

Hey guys. Basically i cannot do a proper bodyweight squat and therefore not an sls. I have thought this is because i was tight around the calves or hips but after improving passive and active flexibility there i'm still in the same position. The only way i can lower to or below parallel without an extreme lean forward is with feet a good bit wider than shoulder width and pointed out 45degree or more but even then my back is arching hard trying to not lean forward. I can't imagine doing any decent weighted squat like this.

The other day i came across this link by chance http://www.enotalone.com/article/4855.html , where the guy says that having a femur longer than your torso can make squatting more difficult. Always thinking i had long legs this seemed like it could explain my difficulty so i measured myself and my femur is about 46 cm and torso about 38cm, tibia about 41 if that matters. I'm 172cm tall. So!. This seems to explain why i can't squat, and maybe why i can run pretty fast

I knew that i could squat down against a pavement or on a slope easily so i tried some pistols with my heels raised a little and some holding a stone (10lbs or so) out at arms length and did a comfortable 4 with each leg.

So does anyone see a problem with continuing them with a raised heel? (more comfortable). I can't see ever being able to do a normal one no matter how good i get at them like this. Thanks for reading

[David Picó García]

In one Arnold Schwarzenegger's book, he relates that he had this problem and compared to his mate Franco Columbo, he had to lean much forward, so much that he said that his nº1 exercise for lower back was squat. And then he had a enormous strengh at that part of the body. So nothing really bad at the end of the story. Of course overleaning with a huge weight can be dangerous for your lower back, but here we are taking bodyweight right?. And for SLS you hace to lean much more than at normal squat (a least i do so) for counter balance.

Check out Ido's posts of clinic squats and some of their Floreio movements are great for increase the range of motion of hips, look at his videos and the easiest position just sitting like an hindu is great.

[terpol]

The problem with the sls is that theres no way i can balance without holding something in front of me or raising my heel. No matter how tightly i lean forward I get to a bit above parralel and stop, i just fall back trying to go lower. I can't sit at the botton either without falling back.

I've seen Ido's videos and done what i can of them but again things like sitting in the squat is just not happening without a wide stance and extreme lean forward and ofc its uncomfortable. The stretches and hips rotations etc i can do no problem and i'm pretty sure inflexibility isn't holding me back.

If i try and squat with a stick on my shoulders i have such forward lean that parralel and below feels like a hard stretch for my shoulder girdle yet i can do a full wall extension.

I'm happy to just go with raising my heels, the only concern would be that it may be hard on the knees but i still kind push from the heel so i think its okay.

actually speaking of knees i have a totally unrelated thing with my right leg. My foot kind of points outward a little and isn't aligned with the knee. When i was younger i fell on my knees and had some physiotherapy exercises such as my big toe on a book and leaning forward, maybe to align them. Anyway its no problem except occaisionally during no particular movement (not sls anyway) i will feel something in my kneecap, not quite a pain but something nonetheless. Can anyone sehd some light on what this could be?

Comments much appreciated

[Blairbob]

Terpol, that is why in the lifting circles they have special power and olympic lifting shoes. You can only guess how much flak gets thrown my way for lifting barefoot.

With those gymnasts who have poor ankle flexibility, we let them do SLS on a springboard since the springboard has an angle to it. It raises the heel higher than the forefoot like a lifting shoe (and thus they do not have to have such great ankle flexion). While in the GB book, some of the boys can do SLS on forefoot only, most newbies will fall on their butt if they try this.

An interesting note is 2 of my boys are quite long legged with the older being very long limbed. However, they are my 2 fastest sprinters (which is amazing because their mechanics are horrid and they are running train wrecks because they do not yet have the balance, awareness and coordination of some of the other boys [who run quite a bit slower]). Bare in mind the 10yo is not 5 feet yet and his brother is a few inches shorter (umm 1.47m to 1.4m). Still they have long legs which makes L and straddle-L tough. They could possibly be faster some of the girls in the gym who are in their teens and have been training for 5-10 years. None of them are as fast as me but you get the picture.

As well those two brothers have varying squat mechanics. The younger brother can do a decent OverHeadSquat with pvc better than his older brother. He also likes conditioning far more so he is tougher. His deck squats are better too. However, both brothers trounce my other boys when it comes to SLS. They can do between 5-10 on each leg which is way better than any of the other boys who typically can do 1 or 2 and fall sideways. Remember, in general their body awareness and coordination is poorer than the boys who have been doing gym longer.

I did used to have another boy who could do about 10 per leg, but he was proportioned as normal and short for his age. He did have very good running mechanics and jump power so in a sense he was built more like me with similar running form. His balance was far better than the other boys and he very good squat mechanics, flexibility besides strength. Unfortunately, he was quite the headcase.

[David Picó García]

Anyway is not easy at first to go beyond just above parallel with SLS, it involves equilibrium and strength, it take me some time to do it, and it was a bit of gaining strength and technique (especially for me was to rest all my body on the heel, put the butt as far as i could while leaning forward to compensate). My recommendation is try to do it assisted but with butt much backwards and weight on heel. if your butt goes forward going to parallel and beyond is much, much difficult.

[terpol]

With those gymnasts who have poor ankle flexibility

How flexible do my ankles need to be? I can lean my knee a good few inches over my toes in this stretch and a little over if i squat holding onto something in front of me. They are more flexible than they were a few months ago but i've kind of reached a point of not really feeling a stretch, more like the feeling of trying to bend your thumb back to your arm.

Sprinting definitely comes easily to me and is what i'm best at. I struggle with Straddle-L and L a lot too I just can't see how the 2 boys can do even one sls if they are proportioned like me, unless they have smaller feet or something which might make it possible. I also have kind of naturally well developed glutes and thighs which may help to weigh me down

Anyway is not easy at first to go beyond just above parallel with SLS, it involves equilibrium and strength

The thing is that it feels that to get lower in the squat my center of gravity has to go back so far that i simply fall. Sticking my ass back and resting onto my heel or leaning as far forward as possible doesn't make any difference. I get to a bit above parralel and simply can't go lower without falling. As i said holding even 5lbs out infront of me or the raised heel makes the sls a breeze, i feel i could quickly progress with them.

Could you guys try it like this and see if its any easier for you? thanks again

[Blairbob]

With some of my boys, the weight or raised heel helps. I dunno if it helps me, it's a rare day that SLS is difficult, typically when my legs are fried. Really fried.

[ajhoover]

Even with long legs sls is not impossible. The extended leg acts as a counterbalance as you go down, if you have long legs, then an extended leg will be more of a counter balance that someone with short legs. If the extended leg is kept at 90 degrees, the weight forward will be greater, you can even move the arms forward for more aid if needed. My guess is a flexability issue as are 99% of the problems with this exercise. This is the flexability test I do for sls. In a standing position take your feet 3 - 4 feet apart with the feet turned out at 45 degrees. Keep the left leg strait and bend the right knee. The butt should drop almost entirely to the ground with a lifted chest and the right knee next to the shoulder. Do this on both sides keeping the heel down. If any of this is a struggle than sls is out of your reach for the time being as sls is more demanding in every way than the exercise i described.

Andrew

[terpol]

Even with long legs sls is not impossible. The extended leg acts as a counterbalance as you go down, if you have long legs, then an extended leg will be more of a counter balance that someone with short legs. If the extended leg is kept at 90 degrees, the weight forward will be greater, you can even move the arms forward for more aid if needed.

I do all of this but it really makes no difference, i can't get my center of gravity forward enough to stop me falling back. If you try an sls with your arms behind your back maybe you can see what i mean.

My guess is a flexability issue as are 99% of the problems with this exercise. This is the flexability test I do for sls. In a standing position take your feet 3 - 4 feet apart with the feet turned out at 45 degrees. Keep the left leg strait and bend the right knee. The butt should drop almost entirely to the ground with a lifted chest and the right knee next to the shoulder. Do this on both sides keeping the heel down.

If i hold a little counterweight infront of me (3lbs) i can do these no problem with only a little stretch around my groin, otherwise its the same problem of having to lean extremely forward and eventually falling back.

I'm really not trying to say oh my legs are long it makes it too hard. To me it seems simply impossible since i can't get my center of gravity forward enough. I've read on others forums of people with the same problem of squatting with long femur and short torso and my diffference of 3 inches seems a lot for my height. My body is proportioned pretty much like this guy.

i'm gonna continue with them raising my heel, i don't think it will be problem for my knees and if i somehow manage a proper sls i'll let you know

[Coach Sommer]

All of the athletes on my team, with the exception of one, are able to perform SLS. This is irregardless of limb length or phenotype. The sole exception is a relatively new athlete who has not yet learned the movement. But that problem should be corrected shortly.

If you are not yet prepared to perform full SLS, then substitute graduated SLS. It may also be helpful to focus on the fact that to successfully perform SLS, you need to focus on extending the glutes strongly behind you as though you were preparing to sit down on the couch. Allow the torso to lean forward as much as necessary at the bottom of the movement; this will act as a counter-lever for the glutes extended rearward. If necessary continue to utilize the small weight in front of you as an additional counter-balance.

If flexibility continues to be an issue, simply working on the SLS will prove quite beneficial in this regard as well.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[David Picó García]

Try to do it from the bottom, just the concentric? part of the movement. Or squat with two legs and then extend one leg and push.

I recommned you to read Naked Warrior from Pavel, half of the book is about SLS, and techniques for progression on this.

[Mike B]

i used to have the same problem, being almost 6' it was hard to balance. but then i started flexing every muscle in my body during the movement and it definitely helps, especially the opposing muscles of the calves. sorry i dont know what they are called, but you need to focus on staying tight and using those front lower leg muscles to pull you back forward.

[Longshanks]

the opposing muscles of the calves. sorry i dont know what they are called.

The calfs are called gastrocnemius.

I have the same problem with balance at the bottom of the SLS being 6'5''. I just cant seem to balance far enough forward despite having flexible legs. I've just been trying to hold that position at the bottom whilst holding the door edge (very hard to grip with one hand), and graduually trying to grip it less and less. I'm not sure if this is the best way to do it though. If it works using a small weight in front of you for balance whats wrong with that?

[Blairbob]

If it works using a small weight in front of you for balance whats wrong with that?

Nothing, imo. Eventually, I would like to hear of you performing a SLS without this counterbalance but in the meantime it is necessary.

In my WU, for some years now, I have implemented most of the kids to work 60s of holding the bottom of a SLS, pistol-style. Sometimes those kids have had to do them with the heel raised or with a counterbalance or a self assisted spot. This is to build the flexibility to SLS or work on the mere balance in the bottom position.

To merely hold this position is very difficult to do if you do not squeeze all the necessary muscles. Until my boys can hold this position at least 30s, they are not allowed to move beyond this. When they can, I have them work SLS negatives or SLS of about 7-10 reps in total. Typically 7 negatives on each leg or 10 SLS on each leg if they can already perform SLS. Sometimes I have them work SLS with the free leg hanging down on a box or beam instead as the negatives (for those with such poor active hip flexibility that they are having too much of a trying time).

For some of my boys, they work 30s of SLS bottom+7 negatives on each leg instead of 60s of SLS bottom. This depends on if they can work a negative SLS at all and if they can the bottom of the SLS for at least 30s. Sometimes, we bring out the wobble boards or do them on trampoline for fun.

[Longshanks]

Thanks for the informative notes Blairbob, just what I needed to know. I'm currently doing 6*10sec sets and actually wanted to know at what point you start negatives. Will see what my max hold time is at the end of SSC. Think I'm a way off yet though as I'm just gettig over the last of my patellar tendonosis problems. That static pistol at the bottom is great for it by the way!

[Longshanks]

Nothing, imo. Eventually, I would like to hear of you performing a SLS without this counterbalance but in the meantime it is necessary.

In my WU, for some years now, I have implemented most of the kids to work 60s of holding the bottom of a SLS, pistol-style. Sometimes those kids have had to do them with the heel raised or with a counterbalance or a self assisted spot. This is to build the flexibility to SLS or work on the mere balance in the bottom position.

To merely hold this position is very difficult to do if you do not squeeze all the necessary muscles. Until my boys can hold this position at least 30s, they are not allowed to move beyond this. When they can, I have them work SLS negatives or SLS of about 7-10 reps in total. Typically 7 negatives on each leg or 10 SLS on each leg if they can already perform SLS. Sometimes I have them work SLS with the free leg hanging down on a box or beam instead as the negatives (for those with such poor active hip flexibility that they are having too much of a trying time).

For some of my boys, they work 30s of SLS bottom+7 negatives on each leg instead of 60s of SLS bottom. This depends on if they can work a negative SLS at all and if they can the bottom of the SLS for at least 30s. Sometimes, we bring out the wobble boards or do them on trampoline for fun.

Blairbob,

I've just started being able to hold the bottom of the SLS with a 5kg couter-balance (as suppose to the edge of door in my last cycle). I can definitley feel it working the tibialis anterior now there's more of a challenge with balance. Only problem is now I do this hold it absolutely fries my core for the L-sit. Is it bacause the holds are similar? My L-sit max time is normally 25 seconds but just 1*12second L-sit in the same workout as the iso pistols seems like an all out maximum effort. Would you just exclude L-sits until the pistol is stronger, or half the volume in both? I already dropped L-sits from my workout on lever days you see due to the same problem, but I do leg work every workout as its probably the highest priority for me.