"Total Reps, not Sets"

[Blairbob]

From: Chad Waterbury, "See Chad Train"

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/see_chad_train&cr=

Something to think about when trying to figure out how many reps. You can also look for the Prilepinsin chart for reps. I came across it in a Dave Tate article.

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/prilepins_chart.htm

Something also to think about is one of the GB protocols is doing 50% sets for 8-12 weeks. I thought it was 3-5 sets of 3-5reps but the book is at the gym. I know I prefer 3x3-5 depending.

Total Reps, Not Sets

I have a target number of reps with each lift. I don't go into the gym with the idea that I'm going to perform 5x5 with 85% of my 1RM for the front squat. Instead, I go into the gym with the goal of performing 25 total reps with that load.

I don't have a target number of reps for each set because I lift based on speed. When the last rep is noticeably slower than the first, I stop the set. This keeps my force-producing capabilities up as high as possible by controlling fatigue.

So set one might stop at six reps and set three might stop at four reps. If it's a maximal strength day, the target number of reps per lift might be as low as 10. If it's a lighter load the target number might be as high as 50. Each workout uses the same target number of reps for all lifts.

Here are some basic guidelines to get you started. Remember, the following numbers are for one lift only. You shouldn't perform the following volume for two similar movements in the same workout. In other words, don't perform 25 total reps with a heavy load for the bench press and 25 reps for the incline bench press in the same workout.

Maximal Strength: 10 total reps

Strength/Hypertrophy: 20 total reps

Hypertrophy/Strength: 25 total reps

Hypertrophy/Endurance: 35 total reps

Endurance: 50 total reps

Point 4: Have a target number of total reps in mind for each lift and perform as many sets as it takes to keep your speed as high as possible.

[ashita]

that work for bodyweight workout ?

[Blairbob]

Originally this was for olympic lifting and then used for power lifting, but I posted it up there because it seems to transfer over to bodyweight as well.

[heinrich]

Interesting article.

I lift based on speed

What speed would you use for Gymnastic Strength Training™? In Coach Sommers article on how to develop the hanging leg lift (HLL) he recommends 3-1-3 (3 sec. concentric, 1 sec. hold, 3 sec. excentric).

Is that a good speed for every max strength exercise or is it a special recommendation for the HLL?

I know Pavel wrote about exercise speed in Power To The People but I can't find the passage.

[JL]

Pretty good articles, Chad uses the upper limits of the Prilepin table I think. I've never tried a Prilepin table based workout long enough to have a truly credible opinion on the effectiveness. The table is based on not letting bar speed slow too much. I'm not sure how important this really is, especially, for something like getting your calisthenics numbers up. Some top coaches felt that you are grooving bad habits in Olympic lifting once bar speed slows. I can't be sure of this theory in general; I have read nothing scientific to back it up, except, if I remember correctly, that strength is speed dependent (you get stronger at the speed you practice the most. Another reason, comparing what your rep max is at a certain progression and how it translates to your projected 1 RM is difficult to nail down, because 90% on up varies too much. Some list 90% as your 5 RM, others 4 RM, and another was 3 RM. It frustrates me, and I just go back to doing a few sets of low reps. Maybe I will take this as challenge, and I'll apply it to some exercise and see what happens. Can't hurt to try, I guess.

[ashita]

that work for bodyweight workout ?

ok thanks

i could test that a day

[JaKri]

Basically, that´s the right approach for BWEs because one can focus more on a rep´s quality. But in BWE the level of intensity can not be manipulated as accuratly as it can be done in weighttraining. Therefore, I would stay with the common recommendation to take one half of a certain rep max for a set.

Personally, I need a lot of volume to maintain hypertrophy and strength. The 3-5X3-5 rule, which relates to the Priliprin table in general, does not take care of hypertrophie. I don´t agree with the recommendations for the total reps given in the article. The Priliprin´s table also doesn´t determine the total volume of a training session, just the volume at a certain intensity level. I also make greater strength gains with more volume. To give you an idea i just drop the name "sheiko". That´s an outstanding powerlifting programm with high volume.

[JL]

Basically, that´s the right approach for BWEs because one can focus more on a rep´s quality. But in BWE the level of intensity can not be manipulated as accuratly as it can be done in weighttraining. Therefore, I would stay with the common recommendation to take one half of a certain rep max for a set.

Personally, I need a lot of volume to maintain hypertrophy and strength. The 3-5X3-5 rule, which relates to the Priliprin table in general, does not take care of hypertrophie. I don´t agree with the recommendations for the total reps given in the article. The Priliprin´s table also doesn´t determine the total volume of a training session, just the volume at a certain intensity level. I also make greater strength gains with more volume. To give you an idea i just drop the name "sheiko". That´s an outstanding powerlifting programm with high volume.

I always thought that gymnastics was too diversified to incorporate a Sheiko plan, which seems to have a narrow scope for powerlifting. Maybe if you aren't really a gymnast, and just want to specialize in one goal like handstand pushups, then I guess you can swing it. What do you do Sheiko for?

[JaKri]

I did the sheiko programm for Strenght training with weights and i still do it for the deadlift.

My point is that it is not necessary to limit the total volume to a maximum of 25 reps (5x5) per training, if you want to gain strenght. I think there´s a great benefit from easier progressions done afterwards to achieve a higher total volume. That has sheiko shown for the world of powerlifting. Of course, you have to controll fatigue with a reasonable periodisation, when you also use the volume to create an overload event. E.g. basically 1-2 sessions volume per week with an autoregulation like ladders, that means you stop, when a certain rep range can not maintained.

[ASForum]

Total Reps, Not Sets

I have a target number of reps with each lift. I don't go into the gym with the idea that I'm going to perform 5x5 with 85% of my 1RM for the front squat. Instead, I go into the gym with the goal of performing 25 total reps with that load.

I don't have a target number of reps for each set because I lift based on speed. When the last rep is noticeably slower than the first, I stop the set. This keeps my force-producing capabilities up as high as possible by controlling fatigue.

So set one might stop at six reps and set three might stop at four reps. If it's a maximal strength day, the target number of reps per lift might be as low as 10. If it's a lighter load the target number might be as high as 50. Each workout uses the same target number of reps for all lifts.

Here are some basic guidelines to get you started. Remember, the following numbers are for one lift only. You shouldn't perform the following volume for two similar movements in the same workout. In other words, don't perform 25 total reps with a heavy load for the bench press and 25 reps for the incline bench press in the same workout.

Maximal Strength: 10 total reps

Strength/Hypertrophy: 20 total reps

Hypertrophy/Strength: 25 total reps

Hypertrophy/Endurance: 35 total reps

Endurance: 50 total reps

Point 4: Have a target number of total reps in mind for each lift and perform as many sets as it takes to keep your speed as high as possible.

Very interesting. Maybe we should sticky this kind of information.

[ASForum]

Did Coach ever comment on this in terms of the BW Gymnastics exercises in BtGB ?

[Guest cccp21]

Basically, that´s the right approach for BWEs because one can focus more on a rep´s quality. But in BWE the level of intensity can not be manipulated as accuratly as it can be done in weighttraining. Therefore, I would stay with the common recommendation to take one half of a certain rep max for a set.

Personally, I need a lot of volume to maintain hypertrophy and strength. The 3-5X3-5 rule, which relates to the Priliprin table in general, does not take care of hypertrophie. I don´t agree with the recommendations for the total reps given in the article. The Priliprin´s table also doesn´t determine the total volume of a training session, just the volume at a certain intensity level. I also make greater strength gains with more volume. To give you an idea i just drop the name "sheiko". That´s an outstanding powerlifting programm with high volume.

I always thought that gymnastics was too diversified to incorporate a Sheiko plan, which seems to have a narrow scope for powerlifting. Maybe if you aren't really a gymnast, and just want to specialize in one goal like handstand pushups, then I guess you can swing it. What do you do Sheiko for?

*******According to what i read in soviet sports review many years ago Prilepin designed his table on the 1/2 "power point".

In other words the 1/2 of "rep max" was considered a cut off point for reps. It basically a very "rough" reps estimation for the Oly lifts plus the assistance movements.

Brandon

[Neal Winkler]

What I've started doing is this:

If the prescribed exercise is for 3x5, then what I'll do is 15 reps in 10 min, which means 1 rep per 40 seconds. So, I start on the minute and then do one rep at 40 seconds, 20 seconds, then 00 seconds and so on 15 times.

My idea was that my overall rep speed/quality will be greater and thus more strength gains.

Thoughts?

[griffdrc]

thats an interesting approach... keep us posted on how it works... good luck

[Neal Winkler]

thats an interesting approach... keep us posted on how it works... good luck

I've only done it once so far with muscle ups. I think my max non-kipping MU is 3, which would be 9 total reps if I did 3 sets. But doing it this way essentially allowed me to do 5 per "set."

[Blairbob]

trianglechoke, sounds like a density program. Unfortunately, I'm not well read on the density programming.

[Neal Winkler]

trianglechoke, sounds like a density program. Unfortunately, I'm not well read on the density programming.

Yeah, I got the idea from Charles Staley. Except I think he does 15 min time slots.

[Blairbob]

I know Staley has books and articles on density training, I just haven't read them or I don't recall them offhand.

[ASForum]

Slizzardman -

I am slowly doing light shoulder rehab.. light yoga etc.

I have a cousin who recently started with BW exercises and will be guided by BtGB. He is strong but SKINNY. He wants to put on some mass. What do I recommend to him in terms of the Pushups / Dips / Pull ups that he is doing?

As per the chart below.. he's probably doing Endurance Range. As per your brief note.. he is not. Thoughts?

On his skinny but cut body, he's capable of pulling off (if I remember correctly):

- 30/40 dips

- 40/50 pushups

He does not have ring access yet, but can atleast be in the right range for hypertrophy..

What would you recommend?

Just so you know, the total number of reps for hypertrophy specifically is 35-50 or so. 20-35 is really a mix between strength gains and hypertrophy, so if you are really interested in growing fast, you're going to need to do 35-50 reps per muscle group per workout, so 7-8 sets of 5-6 reps would be more along the lines you'd want to work. The important thing is total work done, so don't try to do all of those sets with the same resistance level (in gymnastics terms, the same step in the progression like say straddle front lever rows) if it's beyond your ability to perform with good form with no more than 3 minutes rest between sets. And for size, you are going to want to concentrate on being very specific with your rest times and reducing them by 10 seconds or so each workout until you get down to 90s or less. Only then should you raise the resistance level.

Total Reps, Not Sets

I have a target number of reps with each lift. I don't go into the gym with the idea that I'm going to perform 5x5 with 85% of my 1RM for the front squat. Instead, I go into the gym with the goal of performing 25 total reps with that load.

I don't have a target number of reps for each set because I lift based on speed. When the last rep is noticeably slower than the first, I stop the set. This keeps my force-producing capabilities up as high as possible by controlling fatigue.

So set one might stop at six reps and set three might stop at four reps. If it's a maximal strength day, the target number of reps per lift might be as low as 10. If it's a lighter load the target number might be as high as 50. Each workout uses the same target number of reps for all lifts.

Here are some basic guidelines to get you started. Remember, the following numbers are for one lift only. You shouldn't perform the following volume for two similar movements in the same workout. In other words, don't perform 25 total reps with a heavy load for the bench press and 25 reps for the incline bench press in the same workout.

Maximal Strength: 10 total reps

Strength/Hypertrophy: 20 total reps

Hypertrophy/Strength: 25 total reps

Hypertrophy/Endurance: 35 total reps

Endurance: 50 total reps

Point 4: Have a target number of total reps in mind for each lift and perform as many sets as it takes to keep your speed as high as possible.

Very interesting. Maybe we should sticky this kind of information.

[Joshua Naterman]

Adding weight to what he is already doing, if he has nothing else to go on. Also, start slowly working in some pseudoplanceh pushups. Just inch his hands back week by week. Weighted pullups will help him too! DOn't let him get too aggressive. If he is doing 40-50 pushups per set, he definitely needs more weight to push. Bands or a bookbag with school books are two sources of extra resistance

[halluites]

Slizzardman -

I am slowly doing light shoulder rehab.. light yoga etc.

I have a cousin who recently started with BW exercises and will be guided by BtGB. He is strong but SKINNY. He wants to put on some mass. What do I recommend to him in terms of the Pushups / Dips / Pull ups that he is doing?

As per the chart below.. he's probably doing Endurance Range. As per your brief note.. he is not. Thoughts?

On his skinny but cut body, he's capable of pulling off (if I remember correctly):

- 30/40 dips

- 40/50 pushups

He does not have ring access yet, but can atleast be in the right range for hypertrophy..

What would you recommend?

Just so you know, the total number of reps for hypertrophy specifically is 35-50 or so. 20-35 is really a mix between strength gains and hypertrophy, so if you are really interested in growing fast, you're going to need to do 35-50 reps per muscle group per workout, so 7-8 sets of 5-6 reps would be more along the lines you'd want to work. The important thing is total work done, so don't try to do all of those sets with the same resistance level (in gymnastics terms, the same step in the progression like say straddle front lever rows) if it's beyond your ability to perform with good form with no more than 3 minutes rest between sets. And for size, you are going to want to concentrate on being very specific with your rest times and reducing them by 10 seconds or so each workout until you get down to 90s or less. Only then should you raise the resistance level.

Total Reps, Not Sets

I have a target number of reps with each lift. I don't go into the gym with the idea that I'm going to perform 5x5 with 85% of my 1RM for the front squat. Instead, I go into the gym with the goal of performing 25 total reps with that load.

I don't have a target number of reps for each set because I lift based on speed. When the last rep is noticeably slower than the first, I stop the set. This keeps my force-producing capabilities up as high as possible by controlling fatigue.

So set one might stop at six reps and set three might stop at four reps. If it's a maximal strength day, the target number of reps per lift might be as low as 10. If it's a lighter load the target number might be as high as 50. Each workout uses the same target number of reps for all lifts.

Here are some basic guidelines to get you started. Remember, the following numbers are for one lift only. You shouldn't perform the following volume for two similar movements in the same workout. In other words, don't perform 25 total reps with a heavy load for the bench press and 25 reps for the incline bench press in the same workout.

Maximal Strength: 10 total reps

Strength/Hypertrophy: 20 total reps

Hypertrophy/Strength: 25 total reps

Hypertrophy/Endurance: 35 total reps

Endurance: 50 total reps

Point 4: Have a target number of total reps in mind for each lift and perform as many sets as it takes to keep your speed as high as possible.

Very interesting. Maybe we should sticky this kind of information.

why not do the front lever and so on?

[Joshua Naterman]

If he has a place to do it, absolutely. I was just offering basics. What he should really do is go to a local playground and work out with whatever gymnastic stuff he can do, in addition to the other stuff.

[Bob Sanders]

question. how long do you rest???