Static Hold Time Question

[Rod Abbott]

In “Building an Olympic Body through Bodyweight Conditioning†(posted 10/20/2004), Coach Sommer’s writes:

“Be sure to master one position in a progression before moving onto the next. Hold for sets of however many seconds you feel comfortable, while continuing to combine the time of your sets until you reach 60 seconds total time. The number of sets it takes to reach the 60 seconds combined total time is irrelevant. All that matters is that you accomplish 60 seconds of “quality workâ€. Once you can hold a position correctly for the entire 60 seconds in one set, it is time to move on to the next harder exercise and begin the training procedure all over again.â€

In Building the Gymnastic Body (BtGB) (2008) Coach says to determine your maximum hold time, divide by two, and then do as many sets that equal 60 seconds (e.g., if you can hold a tuck planche for a 12 second max, do 10 sets of 6 second holds). He emphasizes sticking to the number of seconds per set even if you could hold longer for the eight to twelve cycle.

Is the earlier advice still valid or is the more recent recommendation safer and more conducive to proper form and progress?

[Bob Sanders]

Sorry but I'm not aware. What is the more recent recommendation?

[Rod Abbott]

Titan, the most recent recommendation is from Coach's book (2008). The fact that Coach did not reiterate his earlier recommendation (2004) in his book should answer my question.

[Bob Sanders]

I have not gotten the book yet but will as soon as I can. But what I did was did 10 seconds hold of the frog stand for 6 sets. My max hold was 30 seconds so next time I will be doing 15 seconds hold for 4 sets. I assume you work with that up until you can do a full 60 second in one set with no problem? For the frog stand you can bend your arms am I not correct. When you go to the next exercise the tucked planche is when you have to keep your arms straight right?

[Rod Abbott]

I have not gotten the book yet but will as soon as I can. But what I did was did 10 seconds hold of the frog stand for 6 sets. My max hold was 30 seconds so next time I will be doing 15 seconds hold for 4 sets. I assume you work with that up until you can do a full 60 second in one set with no problem? For the frog stand you can bend your arms am I not correct. When you go to the next exercise the tucked planche is when you have to keep your arms straight right?

According to Coach Sommer once you calculate your set time (one-half your max hold) you continue that cycle for 8 to 12 weeks (even if you could hold it longer). Then recalculate the new time and continue for another 8 to 12 weeks. "When you are capable of preforming a static hold for[ u]longer than 15 seconds, you should proceed onward to the next harder variation; provided you can hold that new variation for three to five seconds" (BtGB, p. 172). If I am reading Coach correctly, it is not necessary not maintain a given static hold for 60 seconds to progress.

The fact that you can hold a frog stand for 30 seconds might mean you're ready for the advanced frog stand (a straight-armed version of the frog stand, knees bracing on the arms) or the tuck, again assuming you can hold the new variation for at least 3 to 5 seconds. Coach says, "for many trainees, advanced frog stands are a necessary intermediate step to the prior to beginning to successfully train the tuck planche" (BtGB, p. 50).

Yes, elbows are bent in the frog stand, but straight for all other planche progressions (e.g., advanced frog stand > tuck > flat tuck > straddle > half planche > full planche) (BtGB, pp. 49-55).

[Bob Sanders]

Thanks for explain that. I have not gotten the BtGB book yet but I really must get it now. All the information I'm missing out! But I was following the article that Coach Sommer had written back then a while ago: http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/229/. This didn't mention anything about the advanced frog stand. So after I could do I what I did as stated above( did sets that equals to 60 seconds) I went straight for the tucked planche but I couldn't even hold it for 1 second. I did not have the strength. I would fall right over.

[Rod Abbott]

Titan, try the advanced frog stand for 8 weeks or so and then retest the tucked planche. By straightening the arms in the advanced frog you shift more weight to the shoulder girdle but less than in tucked planche. The jump from frog stand to the tuck is a big one.

The two pictures show the difference between the normal (top) and advanced frog stands (bottom):

Bent arms

Straight arms

[Bob Sanders]

Hmm... I seem to have some trouble having some trouble putting my knees directly onto my elbows to keep it straight. I can on put a small amount of my inner knee up against my elbow but it feels and looks like my arms even though straight t are still bent a little. I post a picture and you'll see what I mean.

[Rod Abbott]

Titan, sounds like you need a more time in frog stand. I think the effort of straightening your arms will help place more weight on your shoulders and help in the progression.

Coach Sommer says that after a 8 to 12 week cycle "f you are still 'working' fairly hard to complete all ten sets at six seconds at the eight week mark, continue on with the training cycle for at least another two weeks. If still in doubt at the ten-week mark, continue for two more weeks" (BtGB, p. 172).

[Bob Sanders]

Is this correct? 15 seconds on the bent-arm frog stand is fairly easy for me. Maybe I am doing something wrong.I notice the guy doing the advanced frog stand in your picture has his hip higher than his shoulders and compare that picture to mine.

[Blairbob]

Looks ok, keep working on locking out those arms!

[Bob Sanders]

Would my form count as an advanced frogstand? I mean when I try to put my knees directly on the knee it hurts and somethings slips off.

[Bob Sanders]

OH MY GOD I THINK I GOT THE TUCKED PLANCHE DOWN!

[robotstrong]

good job titan. keep training it consistently and it will get easier and easier