Johnny's Training Log

Ido Portal said:

strength is strength if your muscles know how to squeeze by learning the movement itself, then aditional increase of strength of body some body part wuld help.

Very weird to hear this from a gymnast... I cannot agree with this statement. Unfurtunatly, science shows differently. Everything is specific, so a person with an amazing isolated biceps strength and isolated lattisimus strength will not neccesarily have this strength in a combined fashion demonstrated in a complex movment involving those two.

Part of the reason for that lies in the nervous system and the way we coordinate movement, part of it is in the conditioning of the muscular system as a whole. (fascial tension transfer, and other factors)

Having said that, I do agree with the use of some isolated work for 'weak link' conditioning, or a type of structural balance aproach to training and health.

So in a way, I agree with you Gregor, but not from the same reasons...

Ido Portal.

No no I thought the same, I meant by learning the movement in the way "learning the muscles" so nervous system.

No disrespect was intended, Ido. And you're right, isolation work should not be the largest part of the work done(instead one of the smallest parts), but it does have its place. There are some weak links that can't be trained as effectively with bodyweight work for whatever reason, and some that could but that training would result in too much increased mass, and in that case the isolation work is the key to further advancement. I also said specifically that the first two factors that MUST be present for any isolation work to be anything other than a waste of time and energy are to train the movements specifically, which I referred to as neural learning, and the second, which was having a generally highly developed body in all areas relevant to the movements being attempted, which I referred to with the quote from your post about the muscular system development.

My only issue with what you are saying is the connotation, which is that the isolation work is more or less useless unless you have a great weakness. Sometimes adding in a little bit of isolation or specialized strength work for a small number of muscle groups helps an athlete achieve more than they would without it. I know we are basically saying the same thing, which is that isolation work can have its place in training, though it can not and should not attempt to replace the fundamental conditioning and movement practice. It is a polishing tool, meant to fine tune an already highly developed body. I never claimed that isolation work could do anything else.

I look up to you as an example of what I perhaps can accomplish with my body and abilities. I did not mean to seem as if I were questioning your expertise or your accomplishments, because I am not. But, though I do not have the qualifications or experience that you have, I do know things that work when I encounter them. If a great authority on math tried to tell me that multiplication is not addition, I would still say that it is, because it is simply a faster way to add positive numbers, just as division is simply a faster way to add negative numbers to a given quantity. I am a nobody in the math world, having not even taken calculus, but all arithmetic boils down to addition, either of positive or negative numbers. Though you are by far the more accomplished athlete and trainer between us, it is a truth that specific isolation work as a part of a training program can be instrumental in raising an athlete's abilities to the highest levels and protecting them from injury. I am not, never have, and never will claim that isolation work can replace in any way the other training that must come, but rather that it is one of the polishing rags that buffs the foggy mirror to clarity, so to speak. It is one of the factors that can take an extraordinary athlete and raise their performance to the very limit, but not without all of the training that has already brought them to that level. It is just one of the small details in a complete picture.

As for the chinese team lifting weights, I think that it will only be a matter of time before other teams adopt similar practices. Just as many years ago football players were warned to stay away from weights for various reasons but are now in the weight room all the time, I do think there will be some benefit to gymnasts in the adoption of limited weight training. Of course, that is strictly persona opinion on my part until proven otherwise.

As it stands now, I am waiting on money to buy a new camera to make some videos to post here. I will put up videos showing what I can do, which is not even close to what you can do I can only hope that 10 years down the line I will be a lot closer than I am now.

In the end, my choice of words and my enthusiasm got in the way of the message I was attempting to convey, which is that the isolation work is useful, but is a small part of the overall picture and cannot be useful on its own.

Ok, lets move on.

Unless it is the weakest link in the chain, isolation work will not work to improve the complex movement. How is that for a statement?

Simple logic -

Facts:

1.Isolation work only improves one area at a time. (hence 'isolation')

2.The muscular chain of a complex movement (movement doesnt have to happen in all joints, but tension has to increase - for example in the cross the elbow does not change angle, but the tension across the joint increases immensly) is comprised of a few such areas - as mentioned in 1.

3. There will always be one area which is lagging behind, never mind how little.

4. The body part which is lagging behind the others (weak link) is limiting further development of the whole movement. (this is not the only reason development can be halted, but just the one that has to do with isolation)

All 4 facts lead to one conclusion:

Isolation work will only achieve results in the complex movement when it is implemented on the weak link.

Like you said, its simple math.

And this was always my point - isolation work can produce results, but only on weak links.

(By the way, you turned the original phrase I used 'weak link' to 'great weakness'. This is not true - I ment a weak link in the muscular chain)

Ido.

I did misinterpret. My apologies

slizzardman said:

To claim that weights or isolation exercises are good to correct weaknesses but not to build strength is insane in the clinical definition.

In the same way fine sandpaper is used to correct a small flaw and not remove large portions of wood, or a fine focus knob is not meant to be used in the same way as a coarse focus knob. I would not dream of doing bicep curls all day long to achieve a cross, that my friend is insanity. I would use them though as you had suggested before, as pre-hab, to correct the weakness in my elbow and bicep. I do both weighted isolations and gymnastics movements, I think it foolish to not use every available tool to increase my strength; but I'm not going to use sandpaper when I need an axe.

I know, I never thought you would. Besides, axes are so much cooler than sandpaper!

I should have used chainsaws, laser beams and flamethrowers in my analogy. . what was i thinking!!!

Anyways today is an off day, but i'm going to play with some hand balancing variations.

Don't get me started on chainsaws... I'll be in my bunk! *wonders if anyone gets the Firefly reference*

slizzardman said:

Don't get me started on chainsaws... I'll be in my bunk! *wonders if anyone gets the Firefly reference*

Wow. . . way to pull out your inner geek . . .dont worry every time I get a new strength movement or can progress to a new static position I say (sometimes yell it while in the gym!) that I leveled up and put all my attribute points towards strength. . . of course I am a strength based character so some of that carries over to stamina . . .ok Im done

lol that made me laugh

HAHAHA you know, when I was training for BUD/S, I would go super saiyan. Seriously. It was ridiculous, but that crazy shit works! Every time I went super saiyan I ended up puking at the end of my sprints, but that's how I went from a smoker with a 15 minute 500 yard side stroke to a nonsmoker with a 8:38 500 yard side stroke in 11 weeks My good friend bryan ran with me to keep me motivated and give me competition, it was fantastic!

And yea, I'm a mega geek. On the inside

Ido Portal said:

All 4 facts lead to one conclusion:

Isolation work will only achieve results in the complex movement when it is implemented on the weak link.

fINl we got to the bottom.

Ha, DBZ is amazing, I too dawn the golden hair every so often (in my mind that is). . . I have most of the episodes on my computer right now! 8) OK back on track, it is Tsunamis Log after all!

Hell yea! Ok, log un-hijacked

11122009

warmup:

3 x (2x) 15 cable shoulder circles (Up, Cross, Mt)

4 x 15 RC

10 pull ups

10 hopping dips

10 stability ball pushups

10 ring shrugs on in pushup

10 ring shrugs in supprt

Main:

1 x 3 cross pulls

36 seconds cross (3 x 12)

1 x 10 FL rocks (regular tempo)

3 x 5 FL rocks (as slow as possible)

Finished with:

Squats:

1 x 8 @ 135

1 x 5 @ 225

1 x 3 @ 295

1 x 2 @ 345

1 x 3 @ 295

1 x 5 @ 225

1 x 8 @ 135

Notes:

Took it pretty easy today, didn't have the best nutrition so I didn't feel I had the best energy for a full capacity workout

Was going to do cross pulls today but after first set changed to holds with ring strap apx 4 inches from wrist

Front levers as slow as possible are excruciating, best rep was around 8 seconds long with a pause at the lever.

Squats could have been heavier, but I didn't want to repeat that unsafe feeling I had on the deadlift by doing too much too fast. Squats are quite a bit easier for me than deadlifts, not sure why. I'm training these to a depth of parallel and no more, I'll use SLS for full depth. I will add a DL a SQ or a BP at least once a week.

It's partially due to my less that vigilant diet, but I've stopped gaining weight, however I'm gaining strength and inexplicably some size? Weight is not my primary concern, but a very high strength ratio 5 pounds more over the course of a few months will put me right where i want to be.

11132009

warm up:

3x2 x 15 shoulder rotations on cables (Up, IC, Mt @ 4 kg)

4 x 15 RC @ 4 kg

10 pull ups

10 hopping dips

10 stability ball push ups

10 scapular pushups on rings

10 support shrugs on rings

Main:

3 x 3 shoulder stand reverse muscle up to back lever

3 x 5 straddle front lever twists

3 x 3 OAFL rocks (used pbar type set up, instead of uneven rings)

3 x 3 straddle bowers

Intermission:

5 x 5 One leg deadlifts @ 95 lbs

6 back bend bridge walks

Finished with:

2 minutes of hallow hold v up 2 kg ball passes

Notes:

Went pretty high intensity on the upper body today.

Those shoulder stand to BL negatives were a new movement i experimented with, I like them. Performed in a half lay position.

Revisited straddle front lever twists today, but my hips didn't twist as much as I would have liked.

OAFL rocks on a stable tower set up were pretty challenging after the above exercises.

Straddle bowers are more an issue of balance than strength now. for some reason though i find them much easier on parallettes.

Low intensity DL today but relatively high volume.

Back bends gave my lower back a nice stretch after DLs

First time working isolated core on the floor in a long time, and judging by how easy it was i can see why.

Beastly squats :shock:

later that night i finally tracked down some resistance bands but no MFR rollers or balls, so i improvised

implemented a lot of exercises outlined in ido portal's shoulder and scapula mobility routines

11132009

3 x (3x) 15 (up, IC, Mt)

15 external rotations

15 lateral raises

15 overhead straight arm pull down

15 whippet

15 shoulder dislocations

using the "myofascial release skateboard"

1 minute on each

adductor, quadriceps, Ilotibial, hamstrings

1 x 60 seconds free balance handstand

2 x 10 seconds (L/R) leaned toward one arm

5 x attempt handstand with one hand on skateboard, one on floor

notes:

shoulders and legs feel good after doing this

I'm just using what I have around me, but the one arm skateboard handstand was more challenging than i thought it would be. averaged around 10-15 seconds per attempt

Razz said:

Beastly squats :shock:

Thanks Razz,

but er it's in lbs not kg!!!!!

Yeah i figured still 2 reps with 345 is alot!

11142009

out of bed:

shoulder mobility regimen

a couple of freestanding handstands

morning snack:

1 large bowl of oatmeal

warmup:

shoulder mobility regimen

10 hopping dips

10 stability ball pushups

main:

3 x 12 second victorian

3 x (2x) 5 OAHLL

deadlifts:

1 x 8 @ 135

1 x 5 @ 225

1 x 2 @ 295

1 x 2 @ 345

1 x 2 @ 295

1 x 5 @ 225

1 x 8 @ 135

2 x 10 body levers

cool down:

shoulder mobility regimen again

used a dumbbell for myofascial release roller

then i found a small hard medicine ball and used it instead

1 minute of tense and releases and then 5 curling releases

Steam bath:

20 minutes steam

5 minutes cold

5 minutes hot

5 minutes cold

immediate post workout:

20 g whey protein

a couple scoops peanut butter.

notes:

wanted to back off the arms today, biceps reached a new level of sore, those reverse muscle up to backlevers really did it for me. been massaging with a tennis sized marble.

shoulder mobility, ball and rollers are a nice addition

victorians go from manageable to insurmountable within an inch of ab strap movement

deadlifts felt considerably easier, though I'm going to start cutting weekly volume of these. i guess i'm just a tad excited because of beginner's syndrome.

I'm having great success relieving knots with MFR techniques, but i have one stubborn one in my left ilotibial. If it's there tomorrow i will experiment with freezing water balloons or heated stones

ts00nami said:

I'm having great success relieving knots with MFR techniques, but i have one stubborn one in my left ilotibial. If it's there tomorrow i will experiment with freezing water balloons or heated stones

My solution for stubborn knots is going to sound funny but here it is. Go to bed with a baseball.

Before bed grab a baseball or other hard ball about that size. In bed before sleep spend a few minutes reading. While you're doing that place the baseball between the offending knot and the bed. The mattress should hold the ball in place and give some so that you can keep the ball directly on the knot. When I tried to do this on a hard floor I had trouble keeping it right on the knot.

To release serious knots you need some serious uninterrupted time with pressure on it. I find that if I'm relaxed and in bed that I can keep the ball on the knot for a nice long time. Try it!

I had a dream that I did that with a tennis ball on my right shoulder last night! Weird! I"m glad to hear that stuff like that works, I'm going to try it.

Thanks jl,

Although i think we're talking about the same technique. I might try doing in bed though I'd like to be conscious of my muscles and relaxation rather than sleeping my way into it. The physical relaxation is only half of it, knowing my body and increasing the mind to muscle bridge is of more interest to me.

- johnny

It doesn't sound like he's suggesting that we sleep on baseballs, but I'd certainly like some clarification as well