My Current Focus: HBP/PE2

I'm thinking TUT, i.e. reeeeeally slow reps might be a way to conquer plateaued exercises. That's what I'm gonna do once I hit a dead spot; I just restarted F1. I'm sooooo weak 

If slowing down helps you focus on movement quality, do it. Then move on to building volume with a regular cadence.

shughes89 said:

You could also try going back to a rep count that's easy for you, and upping the sets to get to 75 reps total. After that start increasing the reps per set and let the number of sets taper off as you get closer to 5x15.

I will definitely give this a try if what I'm currently doing doesn't work. 

Thanks for the tip.

I didn't quite get the below though:

> I got up to 50 reps a few years back doing easy reps for lots and lots of sets scattered through the week.

You mean you did 50 reps in 1 set by doing grease the groove?

shughes89 said:

I think you're all overthinking this. I got up to 50 reps a few years back doing easy reps for lots and lots of sets scattered through the week.

 

You could also try going back to a rep count that's easy for you, and upping the sets to get to 75 reps total. After that start increasing the reps per set and let the number of sets taper off as you get closer to 5x15.

This sounds like my exact problem. I was stuck in the 50 rep mark (5x10) for months, I got up to it fairly easily then hit a wall. So recently I changed down to 10 sets alternating the Xiaopengs (ie left after set 1, then right after set 2 etc)  between sets so I was actually having less "rest" in between. I have now got up to 75 (5x8, 5x7) reps total without any real hiccups. Now my next step is to reduce the sets first off to 9 (3x9, 6x8).

My other issue is that I have had a bit of a problem with my shoulder from over doing push ups, when I tried the GTG method, it  exacerbated the problem and I realized that only after my last workout when I hit the 75 mark that I felt no ache or soreness in the shoulder. Some DOMS the next couple of days but not the ache I used to get. 

Yeah, 50 consecutively. This is not a lot of pushups.

Look for the records held by Paddy Doyle for all kinds of endurance events. Think a five minute wall sit is tough? His record is FOUR AND A HALF HOURS.

The limits are mental man. Get out of your own way. You're gonna be fine.

Also by Paddy Doyle. Those wrist/back of hand pushups in H1? 1904 in one hour.

Think 5x15 sounds reasonable now?

shughes89 said:

Yeah, 50 consecutively. This is not a lot of pushups.

Yeah, I know, but that's not my point. I was just wondering if "doing easy reps for lots and lots of sets scattered through the week." meant you were doing GTG.

-Nash

Week 11 (1/2):  15r, 15r, 10r, 6r, 6r

Note: since last post (26 Feb), I lowered GTG reps to 10 per set (instead of 12) and stopped performing them on day of push-ups (except for today, I forgot that I had them!)

shughes89 said:

Yeah, 50 consecutively. This is not a lot of pushups.

Look for the records held by Paddy Doyle for all kinds of endurance events. Think a five minute wall sit is tough? His record is FOUR AND A HALF HOURS.

The limits are mental man. Get out of your own way. You're gonna be fine.

And unless Paddy Doyle is incredibly genetically gifted and some sort of hyper-responder, he still had to work around the repeated bouts effect. He didn't get to where he was by just doing 75 reps 1-2x/week. It doesn't matter that 50 (or 75 or 100) reps is not a lot of push-ups; it matters that unless we're all doing it all wrong, just working up directly to 5x15r is (for some of us, at least) not always an effective program. At a certain point in the process of doing the same workout over and over week in and week out, your body is not being subjected to enough stress to disrupt homeostasis and force supercompensation. I'm using max sets and weighted push-ups and more volume to drive adaptation right now and seeing progress. If I just kept doing the same stuff, I would eventually plateau. You have to keep subjecting yourself to overload. 

For what its worth I'm having the same issue as a lot of people here, I've been stuck for nearly a year now. I haven't posted about it before since I'm not following the cycles strictly and work and life often get in the way of getting good work in. Anyway . . I've been stuck around 15,15,15,15, 10 for months. The closest I got last year was 5x15 and the last rep was just a little slow, and I wanted to be sure I got 5x15. Then I took some weeks off over Christmas. Most of my training has been just doing for 5x15, normally getting 4x15 and doing the last 15 as best I could. This didn't really seem to help. Last year I was doing 5-7 sets of 10 reps bench press with 70kg, hoping some of that endurance would carry over, maybe it did, I'm not sure. For now I'm looking at trying 5x14 for a few weeks then adding 1 rep per week (eg 15,14,14,14,14).

I remember when I started bodyweight training 2 years ago I did a circuit routine it looked like this:

Pull Ups

Pbar Dips

Chin Ups

Push Ups

Hanging Leg Raises on a bar

Diamond Push Ups

Squats

Inverted Rows

So what happened in half a year I went from 15 sloppy push ups to 75 of those well performed. I kept on increasing reps by 2 or 3 every third or fourth training (every 10 or 14 days).

Now I'm not sure how to implement this to GST and F1. Maybe I'd throw it in after each element and do close to max reps after what I'd move on to the next element.

I would also think about modifying the Armstrong Pull up program template and try it with push ups. 

One other thing I haven't seen anyone mention is recovery...

Are you getting enough sleep?  Are you getting enough calories?  Are you getting enough protein?

Yes, I'd say what I was doing was GTG. All the sets were easy, and I just bumped up the sets or reps (never both) on a weekly basis.

F1 does either 3 sets or 5, but if you're getting stuck there's nothing stopping you from resetting a bit and doing 7 sets and letting it taper back down.

Bissen said:

I'm thinking TUT, i.e. reeeeeally slow reps might be a way to conquer plateaued exercises. 

Since I've been stuck at this routine for quite a while as well, I'm thinking to go this route.  There maybe less reps in (as if pushing heavier than normal body weight due to the slow motion), but I believe the muscle fibers will get more stimulation and will get stronger for the 5sets/15reps Mastery.

But then again, would this work for this endurance kind of training???

kingzlo said:

Since I've been stuck at this routine for quite a while as well, I'm thinking to go this route.  There maybe less reps in (as if pushing heavier than normal body weight due to the slow motion), but I believe the muscle fibers will get more stimulation and will get stronger for the 5sets/15reps Mastery.

I remember Naterman suggesting it, and I did it with front squats. Kicks ass, and lets you know where your weak links are. Also really good for joint health, as far as I remember. I think I was at 30-50sec per rep.

Bissen said:

I remember Naterman suggesting it, and I did it with front squats. Kicks ass, and lets you know where your weak links are. Also really good for joint health, as far as I remember. I think I was at 30-50sec per rep.

Just when I thought about my joints, you posted.  :-)

You also helped to answer my last question on the 'endurance' in the long haul.  Everything has to get strong to even reach that level overall.

Forgive me for asking in case I missed it in the postings but I see that there are 3 separate recommendations of cycles to try if someone is having a difficulty with HBP/PE2 in the description. Are people not finding these suggestions effective enough? Has anyone tried them? Results? Just asking as I'm working on this movement at the moment but I haven't hit the wall I know I'm going too at some point. Not sure why all the GTG talk when its already laid out? Nothing against it, just curious, Thanks....

pick and choose at this point. everyone is either coming from a "i've heard of this working" or "i've actually done this" you'll have to be the one experimenting to see which method sticks to your weakness(maintaining mental focus, strength, imbalance in arm strength, which is the weak link in the chain, isolating it, etc)

mine's endurance, for example....i can leave it at that or be ask more questions to become more specific then use a strategy to improve it. (in my case) it's endurance in my arms because my chest / scapula isn't the weak link nor is my abs / glutes. out of both arms, right one gasses out first. so i focus on the most rudamentary scheme i can do the perfect reps and work from there. I applied that to Hinge rows and it's worked. after having worked through it like that, the programming takes care of the rest.

Bissen said:

I'm thinking TUT, i.e. reeeeeally slow reps might be a way to conquer plateaued exercises. That's what I'm gonna do once I hit a dead spot; I just restarted F1. I'm sooooo weak 

It just dawned on me, as I thought back on this statement.  To get to, and surpass, Mastery, is to take a step, or 2, back.  We all mention how we have been on the same Block3 level of this particular workout routine, as well as other routines.  As I'm realizing in order to get stronger, you must go slowly and surely to get a better understanding of the routine.  Once you get better with the routine, it will become second nature and then mastered.  

I thought about this when I got into another level of a CORE routine my body wasn't familiar with, how I'm not used to it so I had to start @ Block1 to strength, not only the muscles, but ultimately the joints to move the muscles.

My plan to get out of this rut is to "start all over again", at first I took this a Block down (Block2).  

What I wasn't thinking about, and Coach Sommer mentions, is to "strengthen the joints" and the muscles will come automatically (this is not a quote, just what I remember).  So for this particular PUSH movement and my PULL (RC/PE1), it's back to the absolute beginning in Super Slow for the strengthening of my joints.  Thanks again, Bissen, for this mind opener.

kingzlo said:

It just dawned on me, as I thought back on this statement.  To get to, and surpass, Mastery, is to take a step, or 2, back.  We all mention how we have been on the same Block3 level of this particular workout routine, as well as other routines.  As I'm realizing in order to get stronger, you must go slowly and surely to get a better understanding of the routine.  Once you get better with the routine, it will become second nature and then mastered.  

 

I thought about this when I got into another level of a CORE routine my body wasn't familiar with, how I'm not used to it so I had to start @ Block1 to strength, not only the muscles, but ultimately the joints to move the muscles.

 

My plan to get out of this rut is to "start all over again", at first I took this a Block down (Block2).  

 

What I wasn't thinking about, and Coach Sommer mentions, is to "strengthen the joints" and the muscles will come automatically (this is not a quote, just what I remember).  So for this particular PUSH movement and my PULL (RC/PE1), it's back to the absolute beginning in Super Slow for the strengthening of my joints.  Thanks again, Bissen, for this mind opener.

Yup - also, doing a seemingly easier-than-what-one-is-capable-of (I'm thinking of RC/PE1 vs. pullups) there was a GB member who had NOT been working on pullups while going through the RC/PE1, and yet he found himself banging out 10 pullups (or more; I forget) a few months later.

Also, joint health and strength is just.... crucial. It's what set me back quite a while ago. The famous elbow. I just *had* to lean a little further in a PL lean, than my elbow could take 

Happy to hear it got you thinking! 

Bissen said:

Happy to hear it got you thinking! 

Not only did it get me thinking, I got the work in last night.  I executed the TUT for the HBP/PE2, as well as RC/PE1 (posted here) and although I started with Block1/Week2, for I was going as slow as I can (getting 2-3 tense breaths (with CORE stayed contracted) up and same going down).  

In the top position, I truly understand why it's called Hollow Back, going further up as far as I could (stretching out the upper back muscles).  Not as if I neglected doing that, after just reviewing the GB video version of it.  It's just that in slow motion, you get a better realization of the movement of the muscles and various activations.

NOTE: Because of my strength level, I managed to get 6 sets in.  I guess I should've gotten a 15 rep warmup in.  

Week 11 (2/2): 15, 15, 11, 7, 7

Week 9: 12, 12 ,12 11

Rep 12 just froze midway and wouldn't complete. Bitch!

Is it really nessecary to do 5x15r? Wouldn't 5x10 be sufficient here? They're only push ups and not something like chin up hold.

Hollow Man said:

Is it really nessecary to do 5x15r? 

 

 

Yes.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer