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Andrei Grigoriev

negative tuck planche press to handstand

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Andrei Grigoriev

My HS seems to be pretty solid, and I'm doing HS+F1, however I'm still at the beginning of F1, and it seems that it will take ages until I get to training planche directly in Foundation, so I want to do something fun to complement my F1+H1 training, I can do a 15 sec tuck planche, so I wonder would it be a good idea to practice lowering from tuck handstand to tuck planche 3 times twice a week?  I can't go all the way from tuck handstand to tuck planche but I want to get this movement down. But of course I wonder if it will do me any good at my admittedly low level of strength.

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Mikkel Ravn

Difficult to say. I've experienced my best progress by focusing 100% on the progressions, doing very little extra stuff. The reason this works for me is probably:

 

1: I don't overexert myself, and thus I stay injury free. Haven't had an injury in 2 years now, and that makes a huge difference in terms of progress.

 

2: Being at a certain level in the F/H series, and wanting to achieve some of the higher level moves is a good way to stay motivated - Since you know that the road to that cool move is paved with PE's. Or, at least that's how I feel.

 

And lastly, when you get to a certain level of proficiency, i.e. end of F2/ mid-F3 and have a decent handstand, you'll be able to do handstand to tuck planche easily anyway, without even training for it. So, if I were you I wouldn't worry about it. I am, however, not you. 

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Andrei Grigoriev

thank you for your input, I also have some very practical considerations regarding the tuck planche press to HS. My prefered method of getting into a handstand is tuck up, however due to the fact that it utilizes momentum it's not as consistent as it should be, the handstand itself is very stable if I hit it then I can hold it for 45+ seconds, my tuck up is actually a partial tuck planche press, I jump with my both legs and once I get my hips over my shoulders and catch my balance I slowly open my shouders until there's nearly a 180 degree angle and then I straighten my legs. I figured that if I strengthen the initial phase of the tuck planche press I'll have more control over my tuck up and will be able to utilize less momentum and that in turn will make my tuck up more consistent.

And of course it's very useful to learn at least one method of pressing into handstand with no momentum whatsoever even if it's not the most efficient method. And at present I can't press into handstand without utilizing at least some momentum.

I know that H2 takes care of that, but H2 lists F2 as a prerequisite and I'm stil on F1. And I want to learn some kind of press long before I embark on F2 or H2.

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Joshua Slocum

Working too hard on the tuck planche press could slow down your progress on the straddle planche progressions. I'd limit tuck press work to 2x per week, at low volume. You're already getting all the strength work you need for this skill from your sPL and HS progressions - the purpose of this work should just be to practice the skill. 

 

Also, you should really learn how to kick up into a handstand. It's easy enough that with consistent work you should be able to do it easily in a matter of months. 

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Andrei Grigoriev

Also, you should really learn how to kick up into a handstand. It's easy enough that with consistent work you should be able to do it easily in a matter of months. 

by kick up to a handstand you mean the standard gymnastic kick up where you raise your leg, step forward with it and then throw your hands into the ground? I can do it but unfortunately it's not consistent. what I noticed however that when I enter the handstand using this method I don't need to make any adjustments to my shoulders I feel that most of the weight is placed closer to the wrists and the handstand itself doesn't require as much effort compared to when i enter it using the tuck jump (tuck up?)  method.

Like I said before none of the methods that I use to get into handstand can get me into a handstand consistently, with tuck ups  I've had the most success so far but it too doesn't get me into handstand 100% of the time. So what do you recommend to do ? should I practice all of the methods of entering handstand daily until I get to a point where I can get into a handstand  without any failed attempts?

 I also noticed that about 5 attempts to get into a handstand using any of the available techniques make me feel tired and I need to take a short break. otherwise all of my subsequent attempts fail. I don't quite understand what's the cause of it, whether it's a psychological thing or it just indicates my lack of conditioning. 

Also speaking about press , it's a bit frustrating that I can't yet do any kind of press not even a tuck press, I've read stories on this forum where people learned tuck press to handstand without any dedicated work, they just unconsciously diminished the amount of the jump they used to get into a handstand over time and then had a sudden realization that they don't need to use any jump at all as they've reached a point where they can press to handstand without using any momentum at all. But that unfortunately hasn't been my experience so far. 

Would it be a good idea to practice negative tuck press to handstand on a daily basis?

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Joshua Slocum

by kick up to a handstand you mean the standard gymnastic kick up where you raise your leg, step forward with it and then throw your hands into the ground? I can do it but unfortunately it's not consistent.

Yeah, that's why you should work on it more. The more you do it the more consistent it will get, but only if you're practicing it 2-3 times a week every weeek.

Like I said before none of the methods that I use to get into handstand can get me into a handstand consistently, with tuck ups  I've had the most success so far but it too doesn't get me into handstand 100% of the time. So what do you recommend to do ? should I practice all of the methods of entering handstand daily until I get to a point where I can get into a handstand  without any failed attempts?

Work the kick-up entry 2-3 times a week. Work the tuck-up if you want, but only as skill work, not strength work (see my previous post).

I also noticed that about 5 attempts to get into a handstand using any of the available techniques make me feel tired and I need to take a short break. otherwise all of my subsequent attempts fail. I don't quite understand what's the cause of it, whether it's a psychological thing or it just indicates my lack of conditioning.

Definitely a conditioning issue, and possibly also a psychological element.

Also speaking about press , it's a bit frustrating that I can't yet do any kind of press not even a tuck press, I've read stories on this forum where people learned tuck press to handstand without any dedicated work, they just unconsciously diminished the amount of the jump they used to get into a handstand over time and then had a sudden realization that they don't need to use any jump at all as they've reached a point where they can press to handstand without using any momentum at all. But that unfortunately hasn't been my experience so far. 

Would it be a good idea to practice negative tuck press to handstand on a daily basis?

Your tuck planche hold is only 15s. You're not yet at the point where you could reasonable expect to get a tuck press "for free"

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Andrei Grigoriev

Your tuck planche hold is only 15s. You're not yet at the point where you could reasonable expect to get a tuck press "for free"

So it appears that tuck planche hold times have a correlation with the ability to do a normal press to handstand?  I thought that when you do a tuck press to handstand ( not a tuck planche press to handstand) different muscles are utilized compared to the tuck planche?

Just out of curiosity speaking hypothetically if someone just focused all of his energy on working H1 exclusively with no additional work and reached the end of the course would he gain an ability to do some sort of an easy variation of a press to handstand (tuck press to handstand) for free so to speak? 

Also I don't understand why my tuck ups aren't consistent yet because I've been doing them for about a year pretty much everyday by engaging in about 10 short sessions interspersed throughout the day. The gymnastic kick up is a different story as admittedly I wasn't as consistent in practicing them.

I started working on Foundation several months ago to complement my handstand training and also started working on H1 and so far I have been consistent in following the programming in both courses but before that I only worked on developing my handstand  and occasionally on static holds and I haven't had much success with the statics which could be due to lack of discipline and/or interest. But I've had no trouble practicing handstands pretty much daily when I realized that I really enjoy holding a handstand. :)

I'm not surprised that my statics are not that great to say the least as it's simply the case of not working them consistently but I kind of hoped that development of my handstand  would be a different story as I had invested a lot of time and effort into it. :)

I know that there's no rush and I intend to follow Foundation +H1 for as long as it takes but of course if there are ways to speed up the development of the tuck press to handstand I'm quite eager to implement them in my training. :)

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Joshua Slocum

Sorry, by tuck press I thought you meant tuck planche press.

The same general idea holds. Developing a tuck press requires developing good tuck compression and strong traps. Working F1 and H1 (and eventually H2) will help with both of those. But I wouldn't expect a tuck press "for free" at any particular point.

Also, more volume doesn't always mean more progress. If you wear yourself out too much, you'll start to plateau or even regress.

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