Scapula position bridge

[Tobias Sundelin]

Hi.

 

Should it be elevated and retracted?

 

 

[GoldenEagle]

For the full gymnastic bridge...yes, your scapula should be fully elevated and retracted.

 

[Tobias Sundelin]

Ok, thank you Rayne-William!

[Sailor Venus]

For the full gymnastic bridge...yes, your scapula should be fully elevated and retracted.

Should the shoulder blades be pulled back and upwards during anything? Handstands, round-off's, handsprings, pull ups, etc.

[Alessandro Mainente]

As Cole stated before, the bridge is an advanced version of combined flexion + thoracic extension. flexion works over the joint capsule. when you stretch the joint capsule you need the flexion but not the retraction. retraction does not affect the ability to elongate the lats , abs or hips flexor muscles.

[Daniel Taylor-Shaut]

So you want elevation but not retraction? What about protraction? Or do the scapula simply do neither? 

 

Concerning band work with TBs (supine and prone thoracic band pulls; SE10 and SE11) is it the same notion? Scapular elevation but no protraction or retraction?

[Keilani Gutierrez]

22 minutes ago, Daniel Taylor-Shaut said:

So you want elevation but not retraction? What about protraction? Or do the scapula simply do neither? 

 

Concerning band work with TBs (supine and prone thoracic band pulls; SE10 and SE11) is it the same notion? Scapular elevation but no protraction or retraction?

elevation = yes. in place of thinking of what to do in terms of protracting and retracting, what creates the most stable base for you to transfer energy from? for me that's thinking about protracting. the students i've worked bridge pulls from the wall(elevated bridge or back to wall HS and progressively walk the hands farther out from the wall while you do a press away from the wall, pause in HS and then come down) when i ask them if they feel the protraction, some of them have looked at me weird and told me what was most important for them was to push up(elevation).

consider that the biceps, similarly to the hamstrings is a group of muscles. if you are tight in a line that impedes you from a movement, I'd cater the stretch to that particular line. for example, practicing AG walks makes me want to keep my elbow stable and not let it twist outwards to get a good pull/push. not the same thing that went on with standing weighted shoulder extensions from H1 when I first started them. also, i noticed my triceps getting much bigger from prioritizing this activation.

similar concept in bridge, in my mind. to go from a high elevated bridge from where I started to a much lower bridge, i used to just peel my feet off the wall with my legs together and come down through a HS. much much harder to do the lower my legs get but if I'm thinking of doing some sweet bridge progressions later on, i want to keep this in mind now. might not be all the pieces to the puzzle but this one seems important because i can't get a good pull if i don't protract. my shoulders buckle instead of creating a base for me to press from.

/my2c

[Daniel Taylor-Shaut]

2 hours ago, Keilani Gutierrez said:

elevation = yes. in place of thinking of what to do in terms of protracting and retracting, what creates the most stable base for you to transfer energy from? for me that's thinking about protracting. the students i've worked bridge pulls from the wall(elevated bridge or back to wall HS and progressively walk the hands farther out from the wall while you do a press away from the wall, pause in HS and then come down) when i ask them if they feel the protraction, some of them have looked at me weird and told me what was most important for them was to push up(elevation).

consider that the biceps, similarly to the hamstrings is a group of muscles. if you are tight in a line that impedes you from a movement, I'd cater the stretch to that particular line. for example, practicing AG walks makes me want to keep my elbow stable and not let it twist outwards to get a good pull/push. not the same thing that went on with standing weighted shoulder extensions from H1 when I first started them. also, i noticed my triceps getting much bigger from prioritizing this activation.

similar concept in bridge, in my mind. to go from a high elevated bridge from where I started to a much lower bridge, i used to just peel my feet off the wall with my legs together and come down through a HS. much much harder to do the lower my legs get but if I'm thinking of doing some sweet bridge progressions later on, i want to keep this in mind now. might not be all the pieces to the puzzle but this one seems important because i can't get a good pull if i don't protract. my shoulders buckle instead of creating a base for me to press from.

/my2c

So, if I understood it right...ensure you elevate your shoulders and then maintain whatever position intuitively gives you the most strength and stretches the area most effectively? So, in the case of the bridge to focus really on elevating and pushing through the chest? 

 

I just end up feeling pressure/tension in my biceps after the fact and i know what hat indicates but I'm still trying to figure out how best to avoid it without causing further chest impingement. Think I caught your drift, though.

[Keilani Gutierrez]

you can think of what your shoulders, elbows or wrists are doing. 

shoulders for me is = elevation and protraction. shouldn't lose it or else my elbows bend and my fingers start pointing towards each other.

elbows = keep straight. if they bend, be conscious of rotating them in the direction you'd put them for headstands (which then transfers to HSPU or the transition of going from bridge in a bridge pushup)

wrists = grab the floor slightly make sure the direction you are pressing from with the upper back moves towards the wrists because we want to stack. if i maintain this everything up top is easier to move around but i dont need to think much on it. 

 

shoulder impingement will be any winding up of the anterior structures. so, if im in bridge and my fingers point towards each other i am in internal rotation and feel some uncomfortableness in the shoulder either on the top or front. protraction in bridge feels more like if im holding onto a bar overhead in the first iM in H1 or the prone PE5 variation. if you can lower to bridge from handstand, why wouldnt we use the base in handstand? there might be some deviation on how much to prioritize elevation over elevating and protracting(interesting point to bring up to coach sommer, cory, zach or another forum coach) but the need for it is there. you need to elevate and you need to stop your arms from doing what they will "normally" do without supervision.

[Jon Douglas]

For me it's elevation and pulling down the ribs; with the right hand position in my warmup I can then slowly straighten my legs, pushing my shoulders over my hands. I think all flexion and pushing the stretch as high in my back as I can, which requires the elevation, whilst reminding myself to relax my neck. Whilst I'm not actively retracting from the shoulders I am pushing my torso in that direction, in a manner of speaking, by getting my shoulders past my hands.

It's quite easy to get to a handstand from a limber as my scapulae are already elevated, it's just stacking it in the opposite direction to a press HS, although I usually end up with closed shoulders as my chest is past my hands, and I need to fix that once I'm up.

 

[Eva Pelegrin]

2 hours ago, Jon Douglas said:

It's quite easy to get to a handstand from a limber as my scapulae are already elevated, it's just stacking it in the opposite direction to a press HS, although I usually end up with closed shoulders as my chest is past my hands, and I need to fix that once I'm up.

You mean "quite easy" from an elevated bridge or from floor level? I suppose if you got the later that would be easy too, in which case I bow to you.

Good point about the closed shoulders. What's open in one position is not so for the next. At what point is ideal to adjust them: after you reach HS balance like you're describing, or perhaps at the last few second a of the transition as you find balance?

These are the kind of details that interest my beginner GST mind. I would love to read more posts like this one. I find them motivating for the skills set I'm pursuing.

[Daniel Taylor-Shaut]

3 hours ago, Jon Douglas said:

For me it's elevation and pulling down the ribs; with the right hand position in my warmup I can then slowly straighten my legs, pushing my shoulders over my hands. I think all flexion and pushing the stretch as high in my back as I can, which requires the elevation, whilst reminding myself to relax my neck. Whilst I'm not actively retracting from the shoulders I am pushing my torso in that direction, in a manner of speaking, by getting my shoulders past my hands.

It's quite easy to get to a handstand from a limber as my scapulae are already elevated, it's just stacking it in the opposite direction to a press HS, although I usually end up with closed shoulders as my chest is past my hands, and I need to fix that once I'm up.

 

Thanks @Jon Douglas. I realize better that elevation is the key central point. The focus points of each move/element then follow suit and the protraction or retraction of the scapula are an afterthought and after-product of getting in the right position and are not so much the initial focus. That helps tremendously in how to think about these moves. I'll have to dial it back a bit and hone in on elevation (which will enable shoulder flexion, as @Coach Sommer mentions, but as that's lacking it will take some time).

Cheers for clarifying all of this. Will give it a go come Wednesday with my TBs routine and see how I, and my shoulders, fare under these new specifications for each stretch.

[Jon Douglas]

8 hours ago, Eva Pelegrin said:

You mean "quite easy" from an elevated bridge or from floor level? I suppose if you got the later that would be easy too, in which case I bow to you.

Good point about the closed shoulders. What's open in one position is not so for the next. At what point is ideal to adjust them: after you reach HS balance like you're describing, or perhaps at the last few second a of the transition as you find balance?

These are the kind of details that interest my beginner GST mind. I would love to read more posts like this one. I find them motivating for the skills set I'm pursuing.

On the floor. Elevated is a little awkward in my current setup.

The slower you go up the easier it is to reacha stacked handstand as you can correct along the way. I don't explicitly think about the timing-- just as soon as the weight is on my hands and I'm en route, I push down and protract-- locking that in, my legs feel light and altho sometimes i go too far and underbalance it's usually there.

It helps that limbers are done with enough core tension from the outset to control the body shape. It is fairly intuitive once you can get your shoulders past your hands in a bridge; the weight starts peeling off the feet

[David McManamon]

It is interesting to hear everyone quote the party line for the gymnastic bridge.  As you gain mobility and strength more options open up so expect gymnasts doing traditional gymnastic transitions such as limbers to press into the ground and elevate as everyone states. However, if you see more advanced practitioners not elevated in bridge you may have to ask if the party line is the only option?  I'm not going to search for a long list of examples but 

 

[Keilani Gutierrez]

i'm all for seizing the opportunity to learn! so what exactly am i seeing here? 

am i supposed to look at what her shoulders are doing? is it her forearms making base? because i see her pushing down / down and away. or are you simply saying we should look at contortionists to have an idea of what shoulder position to ideally be in on basic elements to take further down the line? and then, what is it exactly that I should open my eyes to? because i see her shoulders more or less do what i think to be going from open to closed while pushing the ground away. the rest is her spine mobility.

aside from (as a beginner) working on statics, lowering from HS and from standing, what do i need to know about bridge that will lend to build it to greather things? my question is geared more towards discussing positions that lead to transitions for either static, dynamic or plyometric(tumbling) movements or the anatomical "alphabet" to work on flexibility. 

bridge = static pose, bridge walk, bridge pushups, limber upto HS or touch down in bridge from HS, for example. 

HS = static pose, handstand walk, HSPU, press HS variations, one arm handstand. 

 

[Coach Sommer]

@David McManamon, that is not a thoracic bridge; but rather an example of extreme lower back mobility with almost no thoracic involvement and has nothing to do with the current discussion.

Thoracic bridges should be performed with scapula elevated and retracted.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Daniel Taylor-Shaut]

1 hour ago, Coach Sommer said:

Thoracic bridges should be performed with scapula elevated and retracted.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

 

And there it is. There's our answer. 

[Alexander Egebak]

8 hours ago, Coach Sommer said:

@David McManamon, that is not a thoracic bridge; but rather an example of extreme lower back mobility with almost no thoracic involvement and has nothing to do with the current discussion.

Thoracic bridges should be performed with scapula elevated and retracted.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

How pronounced is the retraction supposed to be?

[Daniel Taylor-Shaut]

Well. Just did TBs and focusing on elevation and retraction went much better!

Focusing on elevation really helped me to gain ROM in certain movements and a stretch with no noticeable pain/discomfort in others  I realized that doing any of the three elevated bridge progressions from the ground was also compromising my shoulder flexion and lent itself to impingement (because, basically I was inadvertently forcing the ROM since I am weaker in those positions and was trying to power through, making them a strength and not a stretching movement). Upon noticing a little tenderness after the bridge pushups, I switched to doing the hip taps standing upright and facing away from the wall with a lean (as is shown in the regression). This felt much better and elevating also helped. Following up with the bridge wall walks while really trying to push the elevation and not the flexion made them surprisingly easier, too; and this helped further alleviate the tenderness from the first two sets of elevated bridge work I had done on the floor. 

I also reduced the weight I had been using for the prone band curls and that helped too (for the same reason the elevated bridge work was hurting me, so, too, was this exercise when done with too much weight).

The stretches will take some time, but I, at least, know now how to approach them and to work on them. 

So, thanks for clarifying this @Everett Carroll and @Coach Sommer

[Keilani Gutierrez]

how interesting. always love to update my notes and curious about what I'm actually doing in bridge then. will have to double check and film.