Just starting out, advice?

[erikmckinley]

I found out about this website from dragondoor, after reading the planche and front lever progression articles.

I've gone from holding the frog stance for 30 seconds to working on the advanced frog stance (trying to get the hang of the balance, its a bit more intense...) and the tucked front lever has improved from 10 seconds to 40 second holds.

I've been doing this for about a week.

I got Building the Gymnastic Body, and according to the book, back lever development help planche development, and handstand work is the most beneficial basic exercise.

I have a few questions:

Would it be too much for me to work on increasing my static hold on all four exercises? Handstand, Planche, Front L, and Back L?

Are there any other exercises that it would be recommended I throw in the mix?

I want to be able to perform a straight BL, FL, a Planche Press, and 15 handstand push-ups eventually.

I'm willing to take the 6 months or longer that it takes. I just want to make sure I'm going in the right direction.

[Blairbob]

For the upper body/core positions, I like straddle-L as well. Probably useful if you ever want to develop a manna. Good for developing hip flexors to do press HS.

It's gonna take longer than 6 months if you are currently at a 40s tuck FL. Planche takes quite a bit of time, probably more than the levers.

[erikmckinley]

alright, so, is it alright to practice all four exercises each practice session?

[Blairbob]

Sure. What you do and program kind of depends on how time you have or are willing. Generally very doable with enough rest periods. Not always so if you're workout capacity or strength is very low.

[erikmckinley]

I was thinking of starting a schedule that looked like: Two practice days, Rest day, Two practice days, rest day, repeat.

I'd throw in two rest days if I felt I needed it.

The exercises I'll be working on then:

Handstand

Frog stand / Advanced Frog Stand

Front Lever tucked

Back Lever tucked

Straddle L (Probably suspended at first until I gain the strength to do it on the floor.)

[Blairbob]

Amongst my guys, I think there might only be one or two who can straddle L on floor but we typically work it on parallettes or something higher like a beam or box because the rest of us can't get the heels up.

[Ed Frank]

I've wondered about something similar, too. When doing a 4 day schedule of Mon, Tue, Thurs, Fri, are people doing pretty much a single core workout 4 times, or is it more often an A and a B workout with A on Mon/Thus and B on Tue/Fri? The difference is that for the first, there are times when you train with only 24 hours rest for the muscles involved while in the A/B, you get 72 hours rest between repeats (to the extent that A and B don't overlap).

[erikmckinley]

I've been doing the previously mentioned routine for 2 days, and I already feel like it might be a little too much, press - wise.

Out of the two, handstand vs planche progression, which would be better to keep, until my shoulder girdle is strong enough to handle working on both?

[Coach Sommer]

Out of the two, handstand vs planche progression, which would be better to keep, until my shoulder girdle is strong enough to handle working on both?

I would recommend first focusing on the handstand.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[erikmckinley]

Out of the two, handstand vs planche progression, which would be better to keep, until my shoulder girdle is strong enough to handle working on both?

I would recommend first focusing on the handstand.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I have a lot of weight straps for my ankles, would adding those to my wall handstand training help foster larger strength gains?

[Blairbob]

Where are you now in your HS progress?

Can you do a free HS at all and for how long? Can you walk in a HS at all?

How long can you do a wall HS? Can you do wall runs, and if so, how many?

What sort of HS press progression is your best right now?

[erikmckinley]

Where are you now in your HS progress?

Can you do a free HS at all and for how long? Can you walk in a HS at all?

How long can you do a wall HS? Can you do wall runs, and if so, how many?

What sort of HS press progression is your best right now?

I'm still working on the balancing for free HS, the last I tried I managed five seconds.

I can hold a wall HS for 45-50 seconds. I have not tried wall runs.

And I'm unsure what the different HS press progressions are.

I was thinking of strapping 15 to 20 pounds on each leg and holding the wall handstand as close to the wall as possible and working on that for 30 second "reps" until I can do wall runs for a workable length of time.

[Coach Sommer]

I'm still working on the balancing for free HS, the last I tried I managed five seconds.

I can hold a wall HS for 45-50 seconds. I have not tried wall runs.

And I'm unsure what the different HS press progressions are.

I was thinking of strapping 15 to 20 pounds on each leg and holding the wall handstand as close to the wall as possible and working on that for 30 second "reps" until I can do wall runs for a workable length of time.

At this point you are not yet advanced enough to consider adding weight to your handstand work. My recommendation is to simply focus on increasing your free balancing HS proficiency and to make HS Wall Runs a priority in your training.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Joshua Naterman]

I have trouble holding the handstands for more than 5-10 seconds freebalancing, but I can walk for what seems like quite a while thanks to the wall handstands, probably 20-30 seconds. What can I do besides just simply practicing the handstands to work on the free-balancing handstands?

[Blairbob]

Possibly work them on parallettes. Some people find them easier to control there than free. I never did but my dad was the opposite supposedly with a decent HB and PB HS and a severely lacking one on floor in which his coach sent him to the wall- A LOT.

[Joshua Naterman]

Hmm. I will try that and report back

[erikmckinley]

Alright, reporting back from doing wall runs.

Wow, those are really something, definitely felt like a work out.

I did 10 sets of 20 seconds of wall runs, approximately. On the last set, I held myself up on one arm for about 5 seconds each arm, it felt tough, but not too bad. I think I could have handled more, just I was having some trouble balancing because I was wearing shoes against a smooth surface.

I'll start doing them 3 times a week and update my progress report later.

[erikmckinley]

I need clarification on something:

I've been working on progressing on stomach to wall handstands, and am curious.

Is the goal to get as close to the wall as I can before I start to tip backwards?

I get my hands about 3 inches away from the wall and I can only stay up solidly if I hollow out my body a little.

If I try to move my hands closer, I fall backwards period.

Is this correct?

[Dinosaur]

Hi eric, I'm fairly new to all this myself. From what I've read on this forum so far... it seems like yes, you do want your hands as close to the wall as possible. Your progress of making it up to 3 inches is pretty good. A lot of the advice I have seen is to take baby steps with your hands once you start to get that close. And if you keep eating it trying to get closer then you are not ready to be closer and need to spend more time at your current distance.

I just started these a few days ago, so I'm no pro or anything, but it sounds to me like you should spend some more days training at 3 inches before trying to get closer.

[Joshua Naterman]

I know that for me, 3-4 inches is about as close as I can get. My ribcage is big, I don't think it's actually possible for me to hold it closer, at least not without a spot. 3-4 inches is good though, you're holding pretty much all your weight at that point. I try to do free balancing there when I am doing wall HS, and only touch the wall with my toes when I lost the balance, and just enough to try and get free balance again.

I did wall hs runs for the first time today, 3 sets of 15 seconds and 1 set of 10 seconds. Man, that's a lot harder than a 45 second wall HS! I can tell the shoulder girdle is going to get way stronger from that already though. I'm about a foot away from the wall, I can't do them closer than that consistently yet Maybe in a month.

[erikmckinley]

Just today I succeeded in the negative portion of full range handstand pushups.

I was able to fully control the descent and slowly brought myself down for two reps.

Im not majorly strong, but its a huge improvement from before, where I fell through the sticking point.

[Blairbob]

How close you get will depend on your the thickness of your torso besides how much your shoulders can flex.

I know for my boys who cannot fully shoulder flex to 180, wall HS is tougher because their shoulder has an angle in it somewhat planchelike compared to the to other boys who have open shoulder angles. It explains why one of my weakest gymnasts can hold a wall HS longer than my strongest. Of course, I let him brag about it (since it good he can have something to brag about since he can't come close elsewhere most of the time).

[Coach Sommer]

Actually your strongest one needs to address the tight shoulders issue immediately; or later he will find that he is unable to master the necessary skills to progress forward with his gymnastics.

For beginners, I prefer a strong gymnast with tight shoulders any day of the week over a weaker, more flexible athlete. However that foundation of innate strength will remain unrealized potential unless the appropriate joint prehab work is done to increase his ROM to allow him to utilize his strength effectively.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Joshua Naterman]

Coach, that is my problem. What joint prehab can I do to increase my shoulder ROM? All I know to do, honestly, is basic wall stretches, and I have my girlfriend use her bodyweight to help me move my upper arm to the 180 degree position laterally, and then we work it to where it is as close as we can get it to the 180 position frontally. That's about all I know. I would really, really appreciate a more complete approach, as would a bunch of the guys here. Can you help me with this?

[Coach Sommer]

What joint prehab can I do to increase my shoulder ROM?

An excellent question but one that unfortunately greatly exceeds the capacity of a forum answer.

As you are already coming to realize, joint preparation is an essential and usually inadequately understood subject. It is also rather complex and difficult to cover correctly outside of either a book or Seminar format. During this past GB Seminar joint preparation and active flexibility were covered in depth. The next GB Seminars are unfortunately not until May of 2010 (my traveling schedule simply doesn't allow me the opportunity to host more than two GB Seminars a year), however if you are able to head out to Arizona prior to then perhaps we can work something out regarding some hands on training.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer