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Minh Vu

why is straddle planche much harder than front/back lever?

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Minh Vu

I mean, they are all A level skills according to FIG COP. I started these 3 skills about 10 months with relatively similar baseline e.g couldn't hold a tuck position for any of them. Fast forward to the present I can hold a full back lever palms facing floor for 20s, full front lever for 6~8s but I still can't hold a straddle planche. My planche progress so far has only been 6x10s adv tuck planche :(. Any thoughts?

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GoldenEagle

Your tendons are too weak and you are more than likely training the skill incorrectly.

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Minh Vu

 

Here's a video of me doing adv tuck planche. I'm able to hold this position for 15s max before my form fails. This was taken after my workout so I was quite tired by then. Could you please show me what I need to adjust? Thanks :)

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Colin Macdonald

Your tendons are too weak and you are more than likely training the skill incorrectly.

 

Probably this. To be more precise, I think FL and BL are easier to just muscle through, whereas planche requires studied progressions to be able to do it properly and without injury. (though it seems a lot of people eventually snap a tendon from poor BL prep as well)

 

When you hit these kinds of walls, it appears to be an indication that you need to step way back and sort out some fundamentals that you are missing.

 

 

Here's a video of me doing adv tuck planche. I'm able to hold this position for 15s max before my form fails. This was taken after my workout so I was quite tired by then. Could you please show me what I need to adjust? Thanks  :)

 

It looks like you're not protracting.

 

I'm also not a fan of parallets to start, though that's just my opinion. I've found that starting out they give you a false sense of strength. And you can use the extra leverage from grabbing the bars to push yourself forward, as opposed to finding the balance and bracing yourself with your upper back

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Brian Li

 

I'm also not a fan of parallets to start, though that's just my opinion. I've found that starting out they give you a false sense of strength. And you can use the extra leverage from grabbing the bars to push yourself forward, as opposed to finding the balance and bracing yourself with your upper back

 

I prefer floor versions over PB versions too, but you can't really say that PB gives you a false sense of strength since that would imply that you consider PB work to be false or not legit. It would only give him a false sense of strength if he is only training on PB, but expects to be able to do it on floor which he never stated.

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Minh Vu

Hmmm maybe you guys are right. I hardly ever train planche on floor. It hurts my wrists too much. I do notice however it's much harder to hold it on floor. Do you think I should drop PB and focus more on floor?

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Brian Li

You can do what you want. You would have to scale back for floor, but the good thing is that you will be conditioning your wrists, learning greater balance, and building greater strength. You can also practice both or alternate in your workouts although you will more likely be able to do it on PB too by just training it on floor.

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Colin Macdonald

Hmmm maybe you guys are right. I hardly ever train planche on floor. Do you think I should drop PB and focus more on floor?

 

I would if I were you. Scale all the way back to a point you can work without pain on the floor (even if that means working planche leans). I'd be willing to bet that if you persist without fixing your fundamentals, eventually you'll feel the same pain on parallets.

 

I've noticed that all the guys who come on complaining about pain and lack of progress on planche are always using parallets. I'm not saying they're always bad, it just seems to me that they're a bad place to start.

 

 

I do notice however it's much harder to hold it on floor.

 

This is exactly what I meant by a false sense of strength.

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Minh Vu

Alright thanks for the input guys :). Time to drop my ego and scale back. Back to tuck planche it is! xD

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John Koliopoulos

Hmmm maybe you guys are right. I hardly ever train planche on floor. It hurts my wrists too much. I do notice however it's much harder to hold it on floor. Do you think I should drop PB and focus more on floor?

From personal experience I can say that I tryed getting a straddle planche using only parallettes. I hit a plateau and failed to progress after reaching advanced tuck like you for a solid time. Had a lot of forearm splints though and on the floor I had no chance at all.

 

Now I'm doing Foundation and only doing planche on the floor. I'm currently at normal tuck planche. No more wrist or forearm pain. Lets see if I can break past my sticking point. Time will tell.

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Minh Vu

Yeah I guess I'll do both PB and floor from now on. I'll probably scale back to tuck planche for both and accumulate more time.

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Mats Trane

 

Here's a video of me doing adv tuck planche. I'm able to hold this position for 15s max before my form fails. This was taken after my workout so I was quite tired by then. Could you please show me what I need to adjust? Thanks :)

 

Read this post and look at the pictures carefully.

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/5959-scapula-position-for-basic-and-static-exercises/

 

As Dillon says the more hollow and the more you can lean the better.

In my experience PL will take much longer than BL and FL. You have to be real patient with PL. Dont lean more than you can handle at the time. You have to build it up and yes it takes time.

I would realy recommend the Foundation series. PL is one of the exercises and its presented step by step.

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Katharina Huemer

One of my coaches once said that in FL and BL you "just" need to be strong enough to hold your body against gravity, because you are already hanging.

But in the Planche, you need to lift your body against gravity and hold it there, which is much harder.

I have no idea, I am far away from those... :D

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Brian Li

You are hanging in a FL and BL, but you are still lifting the body up like in a planche otherwise it will be a dead hang.

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Daniel Burnham

I find straddle planche easier than front lever.

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Brian Li

I find straddle planche easier than front lever.

How long of a full FL were you able to hold when you were able to press up into and hold the manna?

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Daniel Burnham

How long of a full FL were you able to hold when you were able to press up into and hold the manna?[/quote

Not long at all. Max 5 sec.

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Brian Li

How long of a full FL were you able to hold when you were able to press up into and hold the manna?[/quote

Not long at all. Max 5 sec.

I would have thought the manna would have transferred over more strength to the FL due to strong rear delts.

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Minh Vu

FL would be a pull whereas manna would be a push so it would be different. Is this right or am I just talking nonsense? :D

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Brian Li

Manna is technically a push since the arms are moving away from the COM, but it is shoulder extension just like the FL and uses the the rear delts heavily too.

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Coach Sommer

Each of these elements has their own particular area of muscular emphasis:

 

- Manna is heavily dependent upon shoulder extension strength.  

 

- Planche is heavily dependent on the trapezius.

 

- Front lever is heavily dependent on the lats.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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ASNB

LOL! I have been wondering why my traps are still huge and I haven't shrugged or deadlifted in 2 years.  I can only feel planche in my front delts now probably bc they are the weakest link.  

 

It is hard to feel things when there is so much muscle tension.

 

Another thing I have noticed is my rear delts have become mutant they look like tennis balls, is it the front lever or any of the sits?

 

Thanks Coach. 

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Minh Vu

Coach could you please explain how traps are involved in planche?

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Daniel Burnham

Coach could you please explain how traps are involved in planche?

Depression of the scapula.

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