Opinions on this exercise, please

[tropical95]

What do you guys think about this exercise, is it worth trying or not? Does it have the right functional aspect to contribute to building strenght for the planche? And what about the form? Shouldn't he be a little more hollow or flat at the top, concerning his lower back?

/watch?v=McrSPsnScAY

Thanks for your opinions!

[ForzaCavaliere]

Yes it's useful as a supplementary exercise. 

 

I'm pretty sure I read in BtGB about dynamic movements incorporating static holds, which is what is performed in this video. Basically, this is for if you are not strong enough to hold the planche for decent time to get solid volume per workout, but are still strong enough to hold it "momentarily" (like, 0.2s). What happens is by incorporating swinging with a brief static hold at the end, if you do it for a few reps, you can build up enough volume to facilitate adaptation hence improved planche. 

 

Only do this if you are actually close to a planche lol. Otherwise it's useless.

[Ivan Pavlovic]

What do you guys think about this exercise, is it worth trying or not? Does it have the right functional aspect to contribute to building strenght for the planche? And what about the form? Shouldn't he be a little more hollow or flat at the top, concerning his lower back?

/watch?v=McrSPsnScAY

Thanks for your opinions!

I dont se hollow body and planche holds here. I think that it would be good exercise if there are planche holds in it.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Paf

[GoldenEagle]

Although I can't be too specific. That exercise, minus the swinging action, is already part of the Foundation series.

 

The swinging action makes the exercise easier. 

 

YouTube Video: Planche Dips

[Emirking Stillalive]

That dude is doing it wrong, his form at the top of the movement sucks. He doesn't protract at all, and he arches his back because of that.

[tropical95]

Opinions on my advanced tucked please, shall I try the exercise (with better form of course). Or what should be my next step to increase strength? 

/watch?v=eTvB2RW67bs

Thanks!

[Alexander Egebak]

Opinions on my advanced tucked please, shall I try the exercise (with better form of course). Or what should be my next step to increase strength? 

/watch?v=eTvB2RW67bs

Thanks!

That is not an advanced tuck. That is performed to the standards of a normal tuck planche. For the advanced tuck you must have completely flat back, not horizontal, but flat. And you need to build up strength since your max hold seems to be around 15 secs.

[Brian Li]

Coach Sommer uses those swinging dips too. Another similar exercise would be "Germans" which are essentially kipping planche push-ups.

[Alessandro Mainente]

beyond a certain level of basic strength dynamic movement should not be used. dynamic part with swing and kipp it's covered in movements series i think.

Also the form in the video it's not so good, it's fine use a swing but be sure to maintain the same degrees of lean.

[tropical95]

That is not an advanced tuck. That is performed to the standards of a normal tuck planche. For the advanced tuck you must have completely flat back, not horizontal, but flat. And you need to build up strength since your max hold seems to be around 15 secs.

I am not sure if thats right, the last critique I got about my adv. tucked, was that the upper back has to be rounded (due to protraction and depression) and that hips have to be on a level with shoulders. But then it is impossible to have a flat lower back! The lower back could be flat, even with rounded upper back but then hips would have to be over shoulder level. So question to all of you guys?

[John Koliopoulos]

I am not sure if thats right, the last critique I got about my adv. tucked, was that the upper back has to be rounded (due to protraction and depression) and that hips have to be on a level with shoulders. But then it is impossible to have a flat lower back! The lower back could be flat, even with rounded upper back but then hips would have to be over shoulder level. So question to all of you guys?

Your form looks great to me. maybe a tad more depression.

[ForzaCavaliere]

I am not sure if thats right, the last critique I got about my adv. tucked, was that the upper back has to be rounded (due to protraction and depression) and that hips have to be on a level with shoulders. But then it is impossible to have a flat lower back! The lower back could be flat, even with rounded upper back but then hips would have to be over shoulder level. So question to all of you guys?

Nah man, your back is too rounded. 

 

Freshpro is right, it needs to be straight middle/lower back. Protraction+depression doesn't necessarily equal a hugely rounded back all the way through. 

 

Consider the image here: 

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i288/spring85sigma/AdvancedTuckPlanche.jpg 

 

It's a solid adv. tuck planche. Unless you straighten your back, it's just a tuck planche still.

[tropical95]

Updated my form, better? Lower back as flat as I can get it, upper back still rounded, and hips and shoulders almost at the same level.

[ForzaCavaliere]

Updated my form, better? Lower back as flat as I can get it, upper back still rounded, and hips and shoulders almost at the same level.

Much better man.

[Alexander Egebak]

Updated my form, better? Lower back as flat as I can get it, upper back still rounded, and hips and shoulders almost at the same level.

atPflat.jpg

You should NOT read flat as horizontal. Your legs should make out a 90 degree with your butt as well as with your arms. You need to highten your hips.

[Ralph Palutke]

Nah man, your back is too rounded. 

 

Freshpro is right, it needs to be straight middle/lower back. Protraction+depression doesn't necessarily equal a hugely rounded back all the way through. 

 

Consider the image here: 

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i288/spring85sigma/AdvancedTuckPlanche.jpg 

 

It's a solid adv. tuck planche. Unless you straighten your back, it's just a tuck planche still.

In my eyes, this is NOT a correct adv. tuck and I highly prefer tropical's. I really think his adv. tuck is one of the best I've ever seen.

[tropical95]

Dont know what to do now xD. for me, mine seems to be pretty good and it feels like I am going straight to a straddle planche right now. Also from what my body tells me, it feels really good to have the horizontal aspect on a higher priority than the flat back aspect, as the goal of the planche is to be fully horizontal, what means if your upper back is rounded due to protracten, your lower back will never be completely flat. Just look at some examples, i would consider solid planches:

 

http://www.lostartofhandbalancing.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Top-Planche-on-Pedestals1.bmp

http://www.lostartofhandbalancing.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Top-Planche-Fingers-Facing-Forward1.bmp
 

Sorry couldnt embed the two pictures, so only links.

 

If you are protracting and depressing as much as the two above, you cant have a flat lower back while keeping hips and shoulders at the same level.

But another question, what would you say to this form? Enough protraction/depression or not? Obviously not as protracted/depressed as the two abover, only because of that his lower back is flat:

Edited September 23, 2014 by tropical95

[Ralph Palutke]

I think it's somehow a matter of taste. I prefer a nicely protracted planche over a flat one. Therefore, I like the one shown

in your to links more then the embedded one. Check out Chen Yibing's planche. It also i really hollow.

 

I second the things you've said above. The more you protract, the less your flat your upper back is. 

 

Nevertheless, I really would like to here from Coach which of the two planches you've posted in your last post he prefers and why.

[Brian Li]

It is not true that more scapular protraction makes the lower back not flat (they are separate from each other). The two links you posted above does have flat lower backs and the second link shows a perfect planche.

[Coach Sommer]

B1214N is correct that scaplar protraction and PPT are two entirely different issues that are not connected and have no influence upon the other.

I disagree however that the linked planches are perfect. While the protraction demonstrated is fine, the PPT displayed is insufficiently refined.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Brian Li]

How much PPT would you say is needed for a perfect planche?

[Coach Sommer]

Perfect?  Enough PPT so that the lower back is completely flat.  Same as with an outstanding HS line.

 

Is such perfection attainable?  So far close, but not yet perfect.  However the pursuit of perfection is an end goal in and of itself.  

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Ralph Palutke]

I don't really see where tropicals lower back isn't flat.

coach could you please send a pic of a perfect full planche?

[ForzaCavaliere]

I don't really see where tropicals lower back isn't flat.

coach could you please send a pic of a perfect full planche?

Dude, it's easy to spot a perfect planche. 

 

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=planche&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=gdoiVMjaEJDi8AXO64KgAQ&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=667#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=tm_9D7cr6pgX0M%253A%3BB1IgWZseDwWyEM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Flegendarystrength.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2009%252F07%252FTop-Planche-on-Pedestals11.bmp%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Flegendarystrength.com%252Fplanche-and-hand-position%252F%3B709%3B475

 

The main issue with tropical's was that he was leaving his lower back hanging. The guy in the image linked shows where it's at. Full lower back activation. GG bud.

[Coach Sommer]

Yang Wei's static planche position in the beginning of the following video clip is very close to perfect.  He does however lose that perfect PPT during his planche press.

 

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer