Questions on workload and progressions

[mata_leao]

So this is my workout on Monday's. I have a similar workout on Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday with the other exercises from the book. I start with the static hold and then move to the next group of exercises doing them in intervals. I feel like the workout is going well as I feel I have gained a lot of strength in my abs and arms. I do wonder if this is enough though, the entire workout doing 5 sets of 5 repetitions only takes around 20-30 minutes. I think I read somewhere that gymnasts train for hours a day? I am assuming the increased time comes from the routines they practice rather then skill development? Also on the v-ups I don't feel like the tuck is working me very much but my hamstrings are not flexible enough to advance to the straddle in proper form, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

PB low L-sit

half tuck HLL

jumping for distance and height deck squat

XR pushup

elevated row

tuck V-up

tricep layout

[ajhoover]

I don't have a lot to offer you about constructing a routine as I am also new to this type of training, but I can give you some advice on opening your hamstrings. I have found the best way to open my body before any type of physical activity are sun salutations (yoga push - ups). I teach yoga so I am biased but in three years I have come from not being able to touch my toes to being able to do the front splits and nearly a straddle. If done right these build great strength, indurance and flexability. Once your body gets used to them you can do them every day and your hamstrings will open up very rapidly. I am going to attempt to put a video on here lets hope it works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX6iPSMuQ_g

My camera sucks and the sound is bullshit so i am going to write out the sequence as well.

Start standing - legs can be seperated if more comfortable

Arms circle over head

Fold forward

Legs strait lift to a flat back

Hands to the ground jump back into push - up position

Move the shoulders forward (the further the shoulders are forward the more difficult this becomes)

Lower down until arms are at 90 degrees

Press the body up with a back bend roll shoulders back

Lift the hips and press them back and up

Jump feet to meet hands

Straiten legs and lift to a flat back

Fold forward

Return to standing

[mata_leao]

The link did not work but you are describing a vinyasa? I took a week of yoga and I believe what you describe is how the routine started every class I went to. I remember the movement so I will try it, thank you.

[Blairbob]

The reason gymnasts spend 2-5 hours a day doing gymnastics is skill acquisition besides rotating through one coach per every 7-10 gymnasts and stations. Because it is anaerobic in nature, you need small rests in between each drill or series or routine.

Also figure in WU time, stretch time, condition time and event time of 3 or 4 events and perhaps dance time or tramp time, etc besides a small break for snacking and water or bathroom breaks.

[Joshua Naterman]

I didn't want to say anything since I haven't trained as a competitive gymnast, but I was itching to say what blairbob said It's all broken up with rests, don't think they are constantly doing stuff. They are strength/power athletes, and that type of work requires rest in between sets

Blair: Thanks for the specifics, I always wondered how the training time was broken up

Also, those sun salutations, vinyasas, whatever you want to call them, they are really outstanding. I use them almost every day and they help a lot with the hamstrings, they are my warmups before serious stretching and I know for a fact that they are why I am making great progress with my flexibility.

Edit: I went and found this for you since the other video isn't working. The girl is cute, and 1:29... well. I'll be in my bunk! (firefly, anyone?) On the more serious tip, this is a good basic instructional video. The girl doesn't do a good job of explaining a few basics, like in downward dog you are pressing your shoulders to the mat and trying to point your butt at the sky with the arching of the back. That's how you stretch your hamstrings and shoulders properly in that position, it helps to open your shoulders quite a bit. On the hamstring stretch, you should be focusing on keeping a flat back and pushing your bellybutton towards the ground. When you can't get any further, THEN you curl towards the ground, still trying to push your bellybutton towards the ground, not your thighs. This makes it a more effective stretch. Also, hold your position on the breath in and try to stretch more on the breath out. You can also try to make use of the stretch reflex. If you go to the stretched position and maintain locked legs while trying to pull your heels towards your butt, you'll flex the hamstrings in the stretched position. Hold this contraction for 30 seconds with as much strength as you can generate. When you lay off it, you will find out that your muscle will let you stretch quite a bit further. This technique is key in quick gains in flexibility and can be used on any muscle. Some are obviously harder to use this on than others

[mata_leao]

Right now I have a 30 second break between my static work and the strength work and then a 30 second break between each pair of exercises. I pair two exercises together in 5 sets of 5 repetitions on each before moving to the next pair, is this a good idea? Or should I have 30 seconds between every set period. What is the difference between "condition time" and basic strength (skill acquisition) work? I am also unfamiliar with "WU time", I don't know what this is. As far as stretching, I will most likely start with some sun salutations and then work into the other stretching I plan to incorporate in my routine soon. I feel like my routine is overall okay, but I need the stretching added and there are many little things I need to fix as well. My biggest problem right now I think is diet.

[Joshua Naterman]

You are way too short on the rest. With strength work, the idea is to get the most out of each set. 30 second rests are designed to make you tired. The two are NOT the same thing. At all. You want 90 second rests at least, maybe as much as 5 minutes. It really depends, that is a person to person thing, but you need enough rest to be ready to give maximum effort again. Blair can give you more specifics on the condition time, as for warm up you need to feel hot. Your joints and muscles should be warm. That's what it means. There are a ton of ways to do this, though seizure hops and jumping around flinging your arms like an enraged gorilla really works well AND cracks people up. That's how I warm up, that and wear a sweatshirt and sweatpants for 10-15 minutes. WU time is warm up, FYI.

As for your diet, I have topics in the nutrition area that are going to tell you most everything you need to know.

[Blairbob]

Slizzardman, are you talking about the russian girl on youtube that does a lot of the BW exercises. I think she has a website and is becoming or is an ISSA trainer ( supposedly, if it's real at all and not just a setup ). I need to find that youtube profile again as I was going to put a couple of those videos on my ipod to show the boys and laugh with them about ( I'd like some private lessons with her :shock: :twisted:

Right now, our practice time is 3 hours and we condition and stretch for about 20-30 minutes at the end, but I'd like to put this to 30-45 but it's a matter of budgeting our time. If I do the former, it means I can get one short event after the break they take after 2 hours ( when the other preteam guys go home ). We need to do more leg conditioning and allot more time for stretching but currently I've giving more priority to upper body and core strength.

Our warmup is probably 30 minutes long ideally, however some times lately the boys have been coming in late and I've needed to talk to the parents about stuff so that may kill an additional 15 minutes. Then we probably do about 15 minutes of HS work which includes bridge kickovers, presses to headstand and handstand, kicking to handstand and walking in handstand. When we are working Parallel Bars or Pommel Horse as an area, I let the boys climb rope as well or setup parallettes to kick to handstand or practice their presses. They're fresher in the workout then. We'll also climb rope or set up the parallettes to work on when we're in that area or bouncing on trampoline.

Typically when we are swinging rings, I have the other rings setup for them to work skin the cats or levers or MU progressions like the transition to bottom or support to false grip or maybe just simple supporting on rings.

When we are working on High Bar, we'll also have some side stations that are something of a drill and basic conditioning as well. Typically, it's more about training a proper mechanic than really strength but sometimes I might have them work a few hanging leg lifts on the stall bars besides stuff like pullovers or casting ( swinging on the single rail in support ).

For Vault and Floor Exercise and Mushroom/Circle work, it's usually the same thing. Some sort of side station besides the main station I'm critiquing or spotting that may sort of be light strength ( the ag walk positions on floor for circles ) or doing bucket circles or circles on mushroom or the the floor mushroom.

To sum up, we aren't only doing strength and conditioning at the end of the workout but also as a side station with limited volume during events. This sort of reflects in the final main phase of conditioning. I have played around with just doing the statics early after the warmup and basics/HS work but the preteam/advanced rec kids aren't exactly too thrilled with it and I have to make the class/workout fun for them to keep the numbers up. 60s of L, straddle-L, and planche/levers is not exactly what they have in mind and they aren't at the point yet where they can do much with the progressions and also due to their focus rather lack thereof. Thus, focusing on statics after the break with just the team guys is more efficient even though over 2 hours of the workout has past.

I think ideally, we would do statics early and then come back to the isokinetic stuff for the final conditioning as there will be some time in between besides the snack break.

[mata_leao]

I think I will be adding the stretches after my workouts then instead of putting them on the days after like I originally planned. I haven't been warming up so I will add something there as well before my static training. All my workouts start with the static and then go into the strength exercises already, I tried to design it after the suggestions in the book. Are you saying handstand work should be performed daily? Right now I have elements of headstand and handstand work in my weekly schedule, but I don't practice them daily. I am training primarily to improve two areas, my functional strength and to improve my jiu-jitsu. What do you all think of ginastica natural? I think this could be a good warmup and would improve my jiu-jitsu movements and might have some carry over to the gymnastics training.

[Blairbob]

I like the ginastica natural from what I've seen.

My boys come to work out 3 days a week. The preteamers only come twice. Their HS were not were they wanted to be when I came on in December and it's improving but it still isn't where I want to be right now. FX, PB, SR and HB are all about the HS, especially FX with handsprings and tumbling which play into Vault. For your goals, that much HS work may not be necessary but for my boys competitive goals it is.

[Joshua Naterman]

You know, I haven't seen it myself. A friend demonstrated for me hahaha! We actually use it a lot, it works really well. I found these though, enjoy!

http://www.break.com/usercontent/2009/6 ... 48675.html

[mata_leao]

Slizzardman, I think I will pass on your warm-ups. I didn't know Richard Simmons had a commando style warm-up.

Blairbob, I will probably add more handstand work into my routine later, but I am waiting for the book on that topic to come out before I work those progressions. Right now I am working off almost entirely BGB which has been enough of a challenge for me at the moment.

[Blairbob]

No problems.

While this article is named getting to the free standing HSPU it does cover some basic HS progressions.

http://drillsandskills.com/article/19 The articles on calesthenics and parallette training do as well.

[Joshua Naterman]

Slizzardman, I think I will pass on your warm-ups. I didn't know Richard Simmons had a commando style warm-up.

Blairbob, I will probably add more handstand work into my routine later, but I am waiting for the book on that topic to come out before I work those progressions. Right now I am working off almost entirely BGB which has been enough of a challenge for me at the moment.

Dude! You can't escape the '80s!!!

My warmup is arguably more retarded-looking than what is posted. I know, it sounds impossible. I'll have to make a video eventually.