Gymnastic training with big legs

[Grudge]

Hey everyone...

Long time lurker, first time poster.

Like many others, I discovered Coach through DragonDoor.com a few years back. I've been wanting to try my hand at gymnastics for a long time, but it wasn't until the release of the Gymnastic Bodies book that I began actually taking steps toward Gymnast-type bodyweight training.

Through sheer genetics, I have been blessed with naturally large legs, even detrained I maintain a large amount of muscle from the waist down (actually, everywhere really, since I'm primarily a mesomorph)

The question I have is this...

How does having large legs and glutes affect gymnastic training?

Obviously, I'm going to have issues with certain holds due to center-of-gravity issues, but what I'm trying to get a handle on is, for a rank beginner, *exactly what* types of setbacks should I expect relative to a more "normal" gymnastic bodytype? I'm thinking that because I'm a mesomorph overall, my upper body will simply adapt to the additional leverage required to move my lower-half around, but I just want to verify this, possibly through example.

That said, from what I've seen, most gymnasts have relatively small legs (yes, it's an opinion, I know, but if you saw mine, you'd get it) are there any out there with "larger than normal" legs that anyone knows of? Maybe blogs, pics or videos of larger muscled gymnasts (in general) to gauge what, if any, performance issues I'm destined for?

BTW - I'm 5'10" (184 lbs) so from what I can tell, I'm on the upper end of the scale as far as gymnast size. How will this affect me?

Any help or pointers would be greatly appreciated.

[Joshua Naterman]

Well, I'm a big guy like you, 6'2 and 225. I don't know what to tell you about the large legs myself, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. As for being heavy, it will take time to develop the basics. If you are like me, rings come faster than floor. I don't know if that is normal or not, but the stuff on rings comes for me even faster than on parallettes. I can hold ring adv. tuck planches better than I can do on the ground, even do a few pushups. L sit is harder on rings, the levers can be tough but for me they came quickly. I can tell you that as a big guy you can absolutely do this stuff, and it will make you stronger in the weight room as well, should you choose to train weights in addition to the gymnastics.

Today was my first day back in the gym in four months and I did personal bests on almost everything. Not only that, everything felt strong! It was awesome. I've never felt like that.

Bottom line, you and I are bigger than competitive gymnasts. The muscle structures around the elbows and the wrists are going to take a long time to adapt to holding weight like ours. Don't worry, they will adapt. I am at the 4 month mark and I am noticing a huge, huge, huge difference. For about two months my elbows were... I don't want to say sore, because they didn't hurt when I wasn't doing anything or when I was doing relatively easy stuff like dips and levers and all that, but in the planches they really felt the strain. Today was the first time that my elbows really felt strong. It's pretty cool. It happens real slow, because it's a ton of weight to hold straight-arm you know? But you will get there. Stick with it and have fun!

[Grudge]

Well, I'm a big guy like you, 6'2 and 225. I don't know what to tell you about the large legs myself, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. As for being heavy, it will take time to develop the basics. If you are like me, rings come faster than floor. I don't know if that is normal or not, but the stuff on rings comes for me even faster than on parallettes. I can hold ring adv. tuck planches better than I can do on the ground, even do a few pushups. L sit is harder on rings, the levers can be tough but for me they came quickly. I can tell you that as a big guy you can absolutely do this stuff, and it will make you stronger in the weight room as well, should you choose to train weights in addition to the gymnastics.

Today was my first day back in the gym in four months and I did personal bests on almost everything. Not only that, everything felt strong! It was awesome. I've never felt like that.

Bottom line, you and I are bigger than competitive gymnasts. The muscle structures around the elbows and the wrists are going to take a long time to adapt to holding weight like ours. Don't worry, they will adapt. I am at the 4 month mark and I am noticing a huge, huge, huge difference. For about two months my elbows were... I don't want to say sore, because they didn't hurt when I wasn't doing anything or when I was doing relatively easy stuff like dips and levers and all that, but in the planches they really felt the strain. Today was the first time that my elbows really felt strong. It's pretty cool. It happens real slow, because it's a ton of weight to hold straight-arm you know? But you will get there. Stick with it and have fun!

The fact that you're much taller and outweight me by a *huge* margin is music to my ears.

I totally agree on the wrist pain part, just doing frog stands puts IMMENSE strain on my wrists (which goes away as soon as I come down), but oddly enough, I could do a decent L-sit using my kettlebells as parallettes my first day (I think it was from the P90X I was doing last year). HsPups have been reasonably easy even though I haven't worked out seriously in a number of years, so that's definitely promising.

I don't have rings yet (ordering them with the whole GB set soon) but for some reason, like you, I think I'll do halfway decent on them (now that I'm thinking about it, that may be from years of kettlebell work). My problem I think will come in the movements that require rotating the body foreward of the shoulder girdle (ie the beginnings of a manna).

Your news gives me a huge boost, I'm probably gonna order the set within the week.

This is gonna be sweet.

[Blairbob]

Before weights, junior year I was 127 pounds at 5 foot. I probably could have been leaner as well and dipped under 120.

Back Squatting made my legs that were fairly sized for my size balloon. Lots of lifting did that. I doubt I'd give up any of that muscle because it really helped for tumbling and vault and speed besides general strength.

Besides, I'm a short guy so the extra mass makes sure I'm not very easy to move.

[Nobodystopsdblob]

At 5 10 210 with fairly large legs i feel your pain I have been progressing but I am sure the extra leg weight is making things slower oh well

[Guest cccp21]

Well, I'm a big guy like you, 6'2 and 225. I don't know what to tell you about the large legs myself, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. As for being heavy, it will take time to develop the basics. If you are like me, rings come faster than floor. I don't know if that is normal or not, but the stuff on rings comes for me even faster than on parallettes. I can hold ring adv. tuck planches better than I can do on the ground, even do a few pushups. L sit is harder on rings, the levers can be tough but for me they came quickly. I can tell you that as a big guy you can absolutely do this stuff, and it will make you stronger in the weight room as well, should you choose to train weights in addition to the gymnastics.

Today was my first day back in the gym in four months and I did personal bests on almost everything. Not only that, everything felt strong! It was awesome. I've never felt like that.

Bottom line, you and I are bigger than competitive gymnasts. The muscle structures around the elbows and the wrists are going to take a long time to adapt to holding weight like ours. Don't worry, they will adapt. I am at the 4 month mark and I am noticing a huge, huge, huge difference. For about two months my elbows were... I don't want to say sore, because they didn't hurt when I wasn't doing anything or when I was doing relatively easy stuff like dips and levers and all that, but in the planches they really felt the strain. Today was the first time that my elbows really felt strong. It's pretty cool. It happens real slow, because it's a ton of weight to hold straight-arm you know? But you will get there. Stick with it and have fun!

*********** i am kinda in your place as far as size is concerned(250). I am very impressed by this training myself and i was just wondering what your personal bests were in the weight room? Lately that is? Props to you by the way

Brandon Green

[Joshua Naterman]

Let's see, right now I am just starting to lift again, working weights into the gymnastics. I took the last 4 months off so keep that in mind My nervous system isn't used to lifting, so these numbers aren't completely indicative of what I can do. I don't max, but I did a set of 5 flat benches with 275 on the bar, 2 seconds down, touch sternum lightly, 2 seconds up. I could have done 6 or 7 but I didn't push it. My right shoulder is suffering from having to overcompensate for my left shoulder, which suffered from nerve damage from a training accident in navy seal training when i was with class 245. That happened in April 2003. All of this gymnastics work, coupled with intelligent stretching, is really helping my right shoulder recover. It'll be a long time, but that's cool with me! A year or two and I'll be better than ever! Anyhow. My max on bench used to be 385, after a few weeks when my nervous system is used to lifting again it'll be back over 350 for sure. I expect to be able to hit 385-400 by christmas.

Bent over rows I am doing 225 for 10 reps.

Weighted pullups I did for the first time in forever this past wednesday, I did terrible. 75 lbs for 5 reps. That's crap. I used to do 115 or 120 for 10 reps. I think a lot of that is me not having done pullups much period lately.

For curls, I can straight bar curl 185 and do a 15 second negative. It always turns heads lol, no one ever even curls 135 straight bar. When I was at my strongest, I could do one good rep followed by one cheat rep of 205. I expect to have that back by the end of the year as well.

Deadlift, I am doing 8 reps with 435. No wraps, no belt. That stuff is for people who want to get hurt. I do max deadlift sometimes, lately i've been at 510. I just can't hold the bar past that at the moment.

Squats, I haven't pushed them in a while. I can do 10 reps with 275 touching my butt to my calves, but that's not the limit. That's just what I do. I'm slowly gearing back up. Again, no wraps no belt.

Reverse hyperextentions, sets of 12 reps with 180 lbs.

Shoulder press I have no idea, honestly. Haven't done them in over a year. My handstand strength is getting good, so I'll be doing freestanding hspu by the end of the year. Let's see... The most I have shoulder pressed was 285. That was a few years ago, I can guarantee you I can't do that now. That'll come back too though I'm not going to shoulder press until my shoulders feel perfect for a few months.

Any other lifts you are curious about?

[Guest cccp21]

Let's see, right now I am just starting to lift again, working weights into the gymnastics. I took the last 4 months off so keep that in mind My nervous system isn't used to lifting, so these numbers aren't completely indicative of what I can do. I don't max, but I did a set of 5 flat benches with 275 on the bar, 2 seconds down, touch sternum lightly, 2 seconds up. I could have done 6 or 7 but I didn't push it. My right shoulder is suffering from having to overcompensate for my left shoulder, which suffered from nerve damage from a training accident in navy seal training when i was with class 245. That happened in April 2003. All of this gymnastics work, coupled with intelligent stretching, is really helping my right shoulder recover. It'll be a long time, but that's cool with me! A year or two and I'll be better than ever! Anyhow. My max on bench used to be 385, after a few weeks when my nervous system is used to lifting again it'll be back over 350 for sure. I expect to be able to hit 385-400 by christmas.

Bent over rows I am doing 225 for 10 reps.

Weighted pullups I did for the first time in forever this past wednesday, I did terrible. 75 lbs for 5 reps. That's crap. I used to do 115 or 120 for 10 reps. I think a lot of that is me not having done pullups much period lately.

For curls, I can straight bar curl 185 and do a 15 second negative. It always turns heads lol, no one ever even curls 135 straight bar. When I was at my strongest, I could do one good rep followed by one cheat rep of 205. I expect to have that back by the end of the year as well.

Deadlift, I am doing 8 reps with 435. No wraps, no belt. That stuff is for people who want to get hurt. I do max deadlift sometimes, lately i've been at 510. I just can't hold the bar past that at the moment.

Squats, I haven't pushed them in a while. I can do 10 reps with 275 touching my butt to my calves, but that's not the limit. That's just what I do. I'm slowly gearing back up. Again, no wraps no belt.

Reverse hyperextentions, sets of 12 reps with 180 lbs.

Shoulder press I have no idea, honestly. Haven't done them in over a year. My handstand strength is getting good, so I'll be doing freestanding hspu by the end of the year. Let's see... The most I have shoulder pressed was 285. That was a few years ago, I can guarantee you I can't do that now. That'll come back too though I'm not going to shoulder press until my shoulders feel perfect for a few months.

Any other lifts you are curious about?

******* C&J and snatch? Lol! just kidding. I have done a 360 bench and a seated overhead press of 225x4. for the time i am taking it easy in the weight room. i was just wondering if think that it's possible for a 225-245 pound man to eventually perform an iron cross? BTW what is the largest man to have ever iron crossed if you know? This training has been very exciting for me so far. thanks in advance for all yor responses.

[Joshua Naterman]

You have the same questions I do You know, from what I can tell, I will be able to do the cross and planche pushups by the end of the year. THe real limiting factor for me is the muscles around the elbow. Not the big muscles, but the small flexors. With 3 or 4 foot straps I can go almost all the way down in the cross! With 12 foot straps... well.. lol, not even close. It's a LOT harder But it will come! I figure a year from now seems reasonable. I'm working on some counterweight systems so that I can practice with progressively less weight assistance, that should significantly shorten the learning process for the cross.

I don't snatch I clean and jerk 225 for 5 or 6 reps for sure, maybe more but I haven't pushed it

All of this has been really exciting for me as well, let me tell you! It's really fun and I am really enjoying learning to do things that most people can't do!

[Guest cccp21]

Let's see, right now I am just starting to lift again, working weights into the gymnastics. I took the last 4 months off so keep that in mind My nervous system isn't used to lifting, so these numbers aren't completely indicative of what I can do. I don't max, but I did a set of 5 flat benches with 275 on the bar, 2 seconds down, touch sternum lightly, 2 seconds up. I could have done 6 or 7 but I didn't push it. My right shoulder is suffering from having to overcompensate for my left shoulder, which suffered from nerve damage from a training accident in navy seal training when i was with class 245. That happened in April 2003. All of this gymnastics work, coupled with intelligent stretching, is really helping my right shoulder recover. It'll be a long time, but that's cool with me! A year or two and I'll be better than ever! Anyhow. My max on bench used to be 385, after a few weeks when my nervous system is used to lifting again it'll be back over 350 for sure. I expect to be able to hit 385-400 by christmas.

Bent over rows I am doing 225 for 10 reps.

Weighted pullups I did for the first time in forever this past wednesday, I did terrible. 75 lbs for 5 reps. That's crap. I used to do 115 or 120 for 10 reps. I think a lot of that is me not having done pullups much period lately.

For curls, I can straight bar curl 185 and do a 15 second negative. It always turns heads lol, no one ever even curls 135 straight bar. When I was at my strongest, I could do one good rep followed by one cheat rep of 205. I expect to have that back by the end of the year as well.

Deadlift, I am doing 8 reps with 435. No wraps, no belt. That stuff is for people who want to get hurt. I do max deadlift sometimes, lately i've been at 510. I just can't hold the bar past that at the moment.

Squats, I haven't pushed them in a while. I can do 10 reps with 275 touching my butt to my calves, but that's not the limit. That's just what I do. I'm slowly gearing back up. Again, no wraps no belt.

Reverse hyperextentions, sets of 12 reps with 180 lbs.

Shoulder press I have no idea, honestly. Haven't done them in over a year. My handstand strength is getting good, so I'll be doing freestanding hspu by the end of the year. Let's see... The most I have shoulder pressed was 285. That was a few years ago, I can guarantee you I can't do that now. That'll come back too though I'm not going to shoulder press until my shoulders feel perfect for a few months.

Any other lifts you are curious about?

****** Your upper back strength is tremendous. Are naturally genetically predisposed for this? Do you do normal ghr raises or back ext.?

Brandon Green

[braindx]

http://www128.pair.com/r3d4k7/Chinups.html

3 OAC. Cross on the rings at 266 lbs.

[Joshua Naterman]

Let's see, right now I am just starting to lift again, working weights into the gymnastics. I took the last 4 months off so keep that in mind My nervous system isn't used to lifting, so these numbers aren't completely indicative of what I can do. I don't max, but I did a set of 5 flat benches with 275 on the bar, 2 seconds down, touch sternum lightly, 2 seconds up. I could have done 6 or 7 but I didn't push it. My right shoulder is suffering from having to overcompensate for my left shoulder, which suffered from nerve damage from a training accident in navy seal training when i was with class 245. That happened in April 2003. All of this gymnastics work, coupled with intelligent stretching, is really helping my right shoulder recover. It'll be a long time, but that's cool with me! A year or two and I'll be better than ever! Anyhow. My max on bench used to be 385, after a few weeks when my nervous system is used to lifting again it'll be back over 350 for sure. I expect to be able to hit 385-400 by christmas.

Bent over rows I am doing 225 for 10 reps.

Weighted pullups I did for the first time in forever this past wednesday, I did terrible. 75 lbs for 5 reps. That's crap. I used to do 115 or 120 for 10 reps. I think a lot of that is me not having done pullups much period lately.

For curls, I can straight bar curl 185 and do a 15 second negative. It always turns heads lol, no one ever even curls 135 straight bar. When I was at my strongest, I could do one good rep followed by one cheat rep of 205. I expect to have that back by the end of the year as well.

Deadlift, I am doing 8 reps with 435. No wraps, no belt. That stuff is for people who want to get hurt. I do max deadlift sometimes, lately i've been at 510. I just can't hold the bar past that at the moment.

Squats, I haven't pushed them in a while. I can do 10 reps with 275 touching my butt to my calves, but that's not the limit. That's just what I do. I'm slowly gearing back up. Again, no wraps no belt.

Reverse hyperextentions, sets of 12 reps with 180 lbs.

Shoulder press I have no idea, honestly. Haven't done them in over a year. My handstand strength is getting good, so I'll be doing freestanding hspu by the end of the year. Let's see... The most I have shoulder pressed was 285. That was a few years ago, I can guarantee you I can't do that now. That'll come back too though I'm not going to shoulder press until my shoulders feel perfect for a few months.

Any other lifts you are curious about?

****** Your upper back strength is tremendous. Are naturally genetically predisposed for this? Do you do normal ghr raises or back ext.?

Brandon Green

I do the GHR from the book, they are hard I made myself a contraption so I can do them in my garage, as well as body levers, though I prefer to do those under my car. I can lower under control with the GHR, or bodyweight leg curl, or whatever, but i can't raise back up without assistance until I get near 45 degrees. That's pretty hard, man. I guess I've always been strong, but as a kid my idea of a good time was to go out into the woods and drag dead trees around. I know. Weird. So in a way I've always been like this. On camping trips I would routinely make the adults be like WTF, how did you get that tree here? My back and chest have always been really strong, and actually today I experienced chest failure for the first time in, well, as far as I can remember I was doing wide supports and practicing muscle ups on the rings, and after 3 sets I all of a sudden felt my chest give up the goat! I couldn't believe it. I was at 45-50 degrees though, doing dips, so i guess it's no surprise lol... and I also found out that doing dips with a false grip on the curve of the ring is really, really, REALLY hard! I couldn't hardly do them at all!

As far as the back extention, I like the horizontal benches, I hate that incline crap. It's too easy once i get past horizontal, and I don't like the idea of the extra stress on the back ligaments.

[Guest cccp21]

Let's see, right now I am just starting to lift again, working weights into the gymnastics. I took the last 4 months off so keep that in mind My nervous system isn't used to lifting, so these numbers aren't completely indicative of what I can do. I don't max, but I did a set of 5 flat benches with 275 on the bar, 2 seconds down, touch sternum lightly, 2 seconds up. I could have done 6 or 7 but I didn't push it. My right shoulder is suffering from having to overcompensate for my left shoulder, which suffered from nerve damage from a training accident in navy seal training when i was with class 245. That happened in April 2003. All of this gymnastics work, coupled with intelligent stretching, is really helping my right shoulder recover. It'll be a long time, but that's cool with me! A year or two and I'll be better than ever! Anyhow. My max on bench used to be 385, after a few weeks when my nervous system is used to lifting again it'll be back over 350 for sure. I expect to be able to hit 385-400 by christmas.

Bent over rows I am doing 225 for 10 reps.

Weighted pullups I did for the first time in forever this past wednesday, I did terrible. 75 lbs for 5 reps. That's crap. I used to do 115 or 120 for 10 reps. I think a lot of that is me not having done pullups much period lately.

For curls, I can straight bar curl 185 and do a 15 second negative. It always turns heads lol, no one ever even curls 135 straight bar. When I was at my strongest, I could do one good rep followed by one cheat rep of 205. I expect to have that back by the end of the year as well.

Deadlift, I am doing 8 reps with 435. No wraps, no belt. That stuff is for people who want to get hurt. I do max deadlift sometimes, lately i've been at 510. I just can't hold the bar past that at the moment.

Squats, I haven't pushed them in a while. I can do 10 reps with 275 touching my butt to my calves, but that's not the limit. That's just what I do. I'm slowly gearing back up. Again, no wraps no belt.

Reverse hyperextentions, sets of 12 reps with 180 lbs.

Shoulder press I have no idea, honestly. Haven't done them in over a year. My handstand strength is getting good, so I'll be doing freestanding hspu by the end of the year. Let's see... The most I have shoulder pressed was 285. That was a few years ago, I can guarantee you I can't do that now. That'll come back too though I'm not going to shoulder press until my shoulders feel perfect for a few months.

Any other lifts you are curious about?

****** Your upper back strength is tremendous. Are naturally genetically predisposed for this? Do you do normal ghr raises or back ext.?

Brandon Green

I do the GHR from the book, they are hard I made myself a contraption so I can do them in my garage, as well as body levers, though I prefer to do those under my car. I can lower under control with the GHR, or bodyweight leg curl, or whatever, but i can't raise back up without assistance until I get near 45 degrees. That's pretty hard, man. I guess I've always been strong, but as a kid my idea of a good time was to go out into the woods and drag dead trees around. I know. Weird. So in a way I've always been like this. On camping trips I would routinely make the adults be like WTF, how did you get that tree here? My back and chest have always been really strong, and actually today I experienced chest failure for the first time in, well, as far as I can remember I was doing wide supports and practicing muscle ups on the rings, and after 3 sets I all of a sudden felt my chest give up the goat! I couldn't believe it. I was at 45-50 degrees though, doing dips, so i guess it's no surprise lol... and I also found out that doing dips with a false grip on the curve of the ring is really, really, REALLY hard! I couldn't hardly do them at all!

As far as the back extention, I like the horizontal benches, I hate that incline crap. It's too easy once i get past horizontal, and I don't like the idea of the extra stress on the back ligaments.

********** That is pretty good! Some Soviet athletes in the 80's were doing gh raises from ground(NLC) and i am talking about field athletes(shot,hammer etc.)! They were of course the genetically elite juice mobiles!How did you get your pullup strength so

high!

Brandon Green

[Joshua Naterman]

I started doing 18 pullups, and then i started adding weight. First it was sets of 10 with 15 lbs, then 20, then 25, and so on. And at some point I was doing sets of 15 with 45 lbs, and so when I did bodyweight it had gone up to the upper twenties. That was all in preparation for navy seal training, and took me about 6 months to accomplish. That's eating a TON of food too. That makes a big difference. I worked that two times a week, and it was a workout all by itself, I didn't do anything else in the weight room except squats and military press, which i was not impressive with at the time.

I hope that one day I will be doing the natural leg curls with no assistance We'll see. That'll be pretty awesome.

[Joshua Naterman]

http://www128.pair.com/r3d4k7/Chinups.html

3 OAC. Cross on the rings at 266 lbs.

I just made a tent. That's awesome. I mean, the way I feel with things, I have no doubts about my eventual ability to do the cross and most everything. I'll just be crazy strong! Exciting thought, that.