Went back to weights

[silverback78]

After a week of doing calisthenics, straight arm and bent arm stuff, I went back to weights and saw immediate improvement in strength and technique.

 

I however still want to do more gymnastic than weightlifting.

 

I do hope in time to purchase F1/H1 as well as more in the future. In the meantime, how should I go about developing a routine?  

Edited July 8, 2014 by silverback78

[Gabe Gaskins Gaskins]

Save up and get F1. What you get from it is a STEAL at that price.

Dont be deceived though, it doesnt look like much 'on paper'. The forum support is boss.

 

I come from a lifting and boxing/kickboxing background. This program is a long term commitment to moving better and building strength and connective tissue strength. You purposely advance slowly to let connective tissue adapt. 

 

Save your change, mow yards, sell plasma.

 

Get this program.

[silverback78]

Haha, I will get it in due time. 

 

College, kids, work, just don't have much wiggle room in time/money department right now.

 

It's funny because after going back to weights and seeing a vast improvement, my body still rather do gymastics. Now the whole week I was doing bodyweight/gymnastics, I lost some size but quickly gained more after doing a week of it and a week of weights then what I did before I started the BW/Gymastics and was doing weights for months.

 

However, I felt more energetic, mobile and positive during the BW/Gymastic week. I definitely saw the need to eat a ton more. More then when I lifted weights. 

 

Listening to my body and I believe I need to buy these programs when I get the chance. I want to start now, just don't know where to begin or if I was doing it properly in that week.

Edited July 8, 2014 by silverback78

[Jonathan Pettit]

I second StrongZombie.  The sooner you start the better.  Not only will you become stronger, but you'll become more mobile, possibly in areas you never knew were immobile to begin with.  I had just started a three month fitness program when I found GB, and I finished it before starting.  Now I'm kicking myself.  If I had started three months ago, I'd love to see where I would be now in terms of mobility and strength.  

 

Until you can afford it, play around with the core calisthetic movements: different version of pullups, pushups, planks, ab work, squats and lunges.  Focus on best form possible for every exercise.  Take it slow.  Then find a way to save $5 a day so in three weeks you'll have enough for the starter package.

 

Good luck on your journey.

[Alvaro Antolinez]

Listen to  last Coach´s podcast with Rob Wolf. He talks about the different time spans it takes tissues adapt to training. Muscle is the fastest one adapting (it takes weeks). So any good barbell program is going to give you faster results at muscle size and strength compared to F1.

 

The problem is that eventually you´ll be too strong for your connective tissue  (that takes months to adapt) and that´s where it´s easy to start having injuries.

 

F1 it´s designed to let the connective tissue catch the muscle development, it´s slower on purpose. This slowness is deceptive though, because once you start having injuries, you´ll stop training and improving. It´s better to go slower but don´t stop, It´ll take you much further. This is the kind of commitment you want not only for people like us training for pleasure, and that will better aiming for the long term, but for gymnasts that want to make the national team and the Olympics.

 

F1 also addresses weakness detected along the time at adults training gymnastics. So you´ll be rebuild from the ground up, this asks for some patience at the beginning, but later on accelerates the gains and takes you were you don´t think it´s possible to get, not only on raw strength but ability to express such strength other ways than a huge bench-press.

[silverback78]

Jonathan: Thanks. I want to be more mobile combined with strength and stay that way for as long as I live.  I've always done BW stuff even while weightlifting but as I've gotten older, I'm noticing the negatives with weight training and what it does for my mobility day to day. I incorporated Yoga years ago. The ying to the yang if you will and that has helped but I'm still not content with the way I feel day to day. I eat clean. I'm strong but there's something missing and I think I'm figuring out what.

 

Alvaro: Thanks for the response. Funny you bring up injuries because I've suffered very minor injuries, mainly minor muscle strains, throughout my years of weight training. Usually by over retracting shoulders during a weighted dip or during bench pressing. This year however, I suffered an connective tissue injury in my shoulder.  For the last 4 months I've been experiencing pain due to straining my acromioclavicular ligament while doing partial bench presses. Goal was to increase bench press numbers of course. It's healing and getting better (noticed a positive difference when doing BW exercises and straight arm holds).

 

Well, yesterday, after finishing my pull workout (deadlifts, weighted chin ups, pullups, 1 arm dumbell rows), I did some arm curls. I don't like to spend a lot of time doing isolated exercises but I was always taught that you are only as strong as you weakest muscles so I always thought, hit every muscle. I never do machines. All free weights. However, I suffered another injury as I decompressed my shoulders during reverse curls and felt a strain in my Rhomboid Major. Today, it's a bit sore but it wasn't severe. It's also on the same side my strained ligament is on.

 

I know that's not a connective tissue but I've suffered more injuries this year than ever and I'm pretty sick of it.  I was always taught that weight training strengthens the connective tissue but was never taught that the progression is too fast for the muscle. Very interesting and I'll research this more. Thanks. I'll definitely look for that podcast.

Edited July 9, 2014 by silverback78

[Sean Murphey]

How did you figure all this out in one week?

[Luka Kopusar]

yeah, that's what i thought at least do BW for a month or something, then you will see some proper feedback.

[Alvaro Antolinez]

 

 

 

Alvaro: Thanks for the response. Funny you bring up injuries because I've suffered very minor injuries, mainly minor muscle strains, throughout my years of weight training. Usually by over retracting shoulders during a weighted dip or during bench pressing. This year however, I suffered an connective tissue injury in my shoulder.  For the last 4 months I've been experiencing pain due to straining my acromioclavicular ligament while doing partial bench presses. Goal was to increase bench press numbers of course. It's healing and getting better (noticed a positive difference when doing BW exercises and straight arm holds).

 

Well, yesterday, after finishing my pull workout (deadlifts, weighted chin ups, pullups, 1 arm dumbell rows), I did some arm curls. I don't like to spend a lot of time doing isolated exercises but I was always taught that you are only as strong as you weakest muscles so I always thought, hit every muscle. I never do machines. All free weights. However, I suffered another injury as I decompressed my shoulders during reverse curls and felt a strain in my Rhomboid Major. Today, it's a bit sore but it wasn't severe. It's also on the same side my strained ligament is on.

 

I know that's not a connective tissue but I've suffered more injuries this year than ever and I'm pretty sick of it.  I was always taught that weight training strengthens the connective tissue but was never taught that the progression is too fast for the muscle. Very interesting and I'll research this more. Thanks. I'll definitely look for that podcast.

 

You seem to be already quite strong and with some barbell time under the belt. If you are experiencing repetitive injuries you should stop training any movement that causes pain (this is specially important for the shoulder). There are a number of possible causes of this injuries (I'm no expert, just use my post as a initial guide for further research, maybe a more experienced forum member could help):

 

-Overtrained: You can not be on peak condition all year around, it's not possible. You need to cycle through your strength training (any training for that matter). Most people training weights just keep adding weight week after week, till they break (I don't know if this is your case). This can be done switching to other different sports for a couple of months a year or reducing the volume and intensity for that same period.

 

-Abusing one exercises: it´s just a variation of over training. If you do too much of an exercise with out giving time to adaptation and recovery, it´s probable that you´ll develop overuse injuries in that exercise.

 

-Too tight:  After a lot of time training the same movement (specially bench press) your shoulders lack mobility. Coach says it's like racing a car with the parking brake on. You are fighting your own body till you breake it.

 

-Lack of connective tissue adaptation: Just what we talked at the previous post.

 

-De compensated shoulders: Even if your primary muscles are strong, even the ones at the back that compensate the chest. It's probable that you lack strength at the stabilization muscles. It´s even possible that they are not firing at all and not doing their work. Also your posture it´s kept in a non optimal position that gives further problems on the arms and upper torso

 

-Damaged tissue due to repetitive injuries: Shoulder is a complex girdle, a chronically inflamed tendons or muscles that are not allowed to heal, start rubbing other tissue. It's quite common to see frayed and/or calcificated tendons, disappearing cartilage, damaged tendon insertion on the bone, etc.. (the list is much longer) For example a friend of mine who used to compete in Judo, had the bicep insertion snapped due to repetitive micro-tearing due to training and combat. He needed a nasty surgery involving a hole at his bone and tying the tendon to that hole with screws, not pretty. It´s definitely better not to get to this point.

 

I´m sure I´m forgetting other possible causes.

 

 

 

[Carmen Schult]

 

-Too tight:  After a lot of time training the same movement (specially bench press) your shoulders lack mobility. Coach says it's like racing a car with the parking brake on. You are fighting your own body till you brake it.

 

this has nothing to do with bench press but rather because of insufficient mobility work

[Alexander Egebak]

this has nothing to do with bench press but rather because of insufficient mobility work

This is however an indication of a possible low ROM

[Alvaro Antolinez]

this has nothing to do with bench press but rather because of insufficient mobility work

You are right, I didn't write a complete explanation. Bench press is not the cause of the tightness, excess Bench press (without compensating exercises), no mobility work and no stretching are the causes.

 

Bench press is usually blamed because it's one of the most popular and effective exercises. When something it's abused, it usually causes some problems. It happens not only in training, but everywhere.

[Alan Tseng]

I don't like bench press for it being an exercise where your body is moving, yet you are forced to artificially restrict your ROM by locking in your scapula

[Brian Li]

You are right, I didn't write a complete explanation. Bench press is not the cause of the tightness, excess Bench press (without compensating exercises), no mobility work and no stretching are the causes.

 

Bench press is usually blamed because it's one of the most popular and effective exercises. When something it's abused, it usually causes some problems. It happens not only in training, but everywhere.

Will adding pulling exercises fix this?

 

I don't like bench press for it being an exercise where your body is moving, yet you are forced to artificially restrict your ROM by locking in your scapula

What do you mean artificial? That's how you get a stable base to push from for the bench press when you retract your scapulae.

[Alan Tseng]

 

What do you mean artificial? That's how you get a stable base to push from for the bench press when you retract your scapulae.

Yes, that's why it's artificial.  Off the top of my head, I can't name a single activity (outside weight room) where you push while  not allowing your scapula to go through its natural range of motion. 

[Fred Mak]

just focus on doing one or two days per week of comprehensive stretching for the whole body.  especially focus on shoulder flexion and extension.

[Brian Li]

Yes, that's why it's artificial.  Off the top of my head, I can't name a single activity (outside weight room) where you push while  not allowing your scapula to go through its natural range of motion. 

Not true. Bench press is a very functional exercise. Here's what Joshua Naterman had to say in reply to someone who said the same thing about bench pressing:

 

Joshua Naterman, on 22 Jun 2013 - 7:39 PM, said:

Easy to say when you're not stuck under a dead body, a fallen tree, someone grappling you when you're on the ground, etc. There are natural situations that might require you to use some or all aspects of bench technique.   I realize these aren't commonplace situations, but they do happen. Just a point I wanted to make, because if something heavy is on you you ARE going to want to retract in order to give your pressing muscles more favorable moment arms. You're also going to want to arch, to stabilize your spine.

[Alan Tseng]

Yes, but again that is very specific cases.  In my 20+ yrs, those scenarios have never happened to me, so pushing with retracted scapula is not functional for me.  Yet here I am now, typing on a keyboard with my scapula protracted.  pushing with scapula protracted is much more functional for my personal life.  Remember I never mentioned in my post whether it was a good exercise or not, but I said that I personally don't like it, because I've never experienced those scenarios.  Neither have millions of people who aren't grapplers, firefighters, military, law enforcements, etc.  Even then, for those scenarios you mentioned, I'd choose a floor press for specifcity

[Brian Li]

Fair enough, although I'd choose the bench press over a floor press since there is more ROM which can come in handy.

[Gabe Gaskins Gaskins]

People also may not notice that it may be things other than the bench press causing lack of mobility.

 

Sitting in a chair all day.

 

Never really reaching overhead during the day.

 

Humans dont really climb anymore. 

 

As far as workouts, most guys i see at the gym i work at do WAY more 'chest' work, internal rotation, than they do external rotation. 'Shoulder' work is usually dumbell raises or 1/2-2/3 range of motion seated overhead pressing...if you could even call that 'overhead'.

 

The bench gets a bad rap because it signifies the male quest for 'chesticles' as Rippetoe put it. Go to any gym, on a Monday, what do most guys and even girls do? Chest. Coincidentally, they gym gets less busy as the week goes on. Commercial gyms, mind you. Bench in itself isnt that harmful, bad posture and programming is the pool of fire that benching ignites. In my opinion.

[Alvaro Antolinez]

I agree, the bench press is a great exercise that´ll build a ton of strength, the problem is that it´s abused, or at least other muscles and exercises are neglected (or simply ignored).

 

In my opinion ( I´m far from being an expert, take this opinion with a grain of salt)  someone having shoulder problems is best served with F 1, even if you are only going to use the prehab exercises (and keep working out with barbells) it´s one of the best sources for building bullet proof shoulders.

 

I just saw this shoulder balancing exercise at the Charles Poliquin site, combined with  dumbbell inclined rows and Coach Sommer´s recommended weighted dislocates, seem like a  good starting point (for the weightlifting crowd).

 

Personally I´ll keep training F 1, .

 

http://www.strengthsensei.com/a-great-way-to-balance-out-all-your-pectoral-work/

[silverback78]

How did you figure all this out in one week?

I've been lifting, training, etc, in all forms for a long time now. I'm so dialed into my body, it doesn't take long.

[silverback78]

I think my main problem was form and trying to do too much too quickly. I was doing partial benching with heavier weight than I'm accustomed to. I was also doing them with a narrower grip. Being long limbed that puts a lot of emphasis on the triceps but also was squeezing the traps and delts closer to the body and I think it just caused a ligament strain.

 

Until I can afford F1/H1, I've decided to do the 5/3/1 program with off days consisting of straight arms holds and BW stuff.

[Jan Reipert]

Yes, that's why it's artificial.  Off the top of my head, I can't name a single activity (outside weight room) where you push while  not allowing your scapula to go through its natural range of motion. 

i can´t imagine a situation where i am hanging from two instable objects with perfectly straight arms. i can´t imagine a situation where i am hanging and holding an l-sit at the same time. i can´t imagine having to do a backflip due to a life-threatening situation.

 

still i am here because its ###### fun to train for these  

[Alexander Egebak]

i can´t imagine a situation where i am hanging from two instable objects with perfectly straight arms. i can´t imagine a situation where i am hanging and holding an l-sit at the same time. i can´t imagine having to do a backflip due to a life-threatening situation.

 

still i am here because its ###### fun to train for these

Don't start a functional strength debate