6.2 learning the planche

Alexander Egebak said:

Not enough protraction, lower back sagging, not horizontal bodyline, wrong head positioning, bending legs too much, not doing it on the ground etc.

 

It is gonna take a while...

Ok, i usualy train on the ground, but on sunday i have access to the gym and parallel bars. So, you think i should strenghten my lower back more. I'm not really sure which muscles to engage in half lay. It feels so unpleasant. My hips hurt if i get completely parallel, i also got muscle cramp in my hip flexors and in my hamstring afterwards. I avoid streching hip flexors beacuse of a grain injury i had previously. But anyways, it was the first time i tried to fully depress my shoulders in any planche position, it was such an awkward feeling, there is no way i can combine solid protraction and full depression in the same time for now. But, i will keep trying half lay on sundays, on the other days i will hold easier progressions. So new videos every sunday, can you just explain a little bit more about your statement: wrong head position. 

One more question: Should i engage my lower back more, because i'm alwaly focused on tightening my abs and the butt. I'm much better when i flex my lower back and butt, but i think that will make a slightly banana appearance.

GORIZONT said:

Ok, i usualy train on the ground, but on sunday i have access to the gym and parallel bars. So, you think i should strenghten my lower back more. I'm not really sure which muscles to engage in half lay. It feels so unpleasant. My hips hurt if i get completely parallel, i also got muscle cramp in my hip flexors and in my hamstring afterwards. I avoid streching hip flexors beacuse of a grain injury i had previously. But anyways, it was the first time i tried to fully depress my shoulders in any planche position, it was such an awkward feeling, there is no way i can combine solid protraction and full depression in the same time for now. But, i will keep trying half lay on sundays, on the other days i will hold easier progressions. So new videos every sunday, can you just explain a little bit more about your statement: wrong head position. 

One more question: Should i engage my lower back more, because i'm alwaly focused on tightening my abs and the butt. I'm much better when i flex my lower back and butt, but i think that will make a slightly banana appearance.

I don't tell you what you should do because you never listen to us. You say you have pain, position feels awkward, you lack strength etc... Step back to earlier progressions!

GORIZONT said:

Ok, i usualy train on the ground, but on sunday i have access to the gym and parallel bars.

Except that every video that you've posted from home has you using parallets. I don't understand why you feel the need to lie constantly.

GORIZONT said:

I'm not really sure which muscles to engage in half lay. It feels so unpleasant. My hips hurt if i get completely parallel, i also got muscle cramp in my hip flexors and in my hamstring afterwards.

 

One more question: Should i engage my lower back more, because i'm alwaly focused on tightening my abs and the butt. I'm much better when i flex my lower back and butt, but i think that will make a slightly banana appearance.

No, you shouldn't flex your lower back. You need to spend a good year on planche leans learning the proper hollow body position. It feels awkward because you aren't learning properly. Each progression should feel perfectly natural, if it doesn't you need to go back and work on your form.

If it hurts your hips then go back to a progression where it doesn't hurt and don't move on to the harder progression until your injury is all healed up.

When doing the planche, you should focus on full protraction and try to have your scapulae as depressed as possible. You can't really have full protraction and full depression at the same time, but you can have 100% on one and like 97% full on the other.

I didn't lie about working planche on floor, i do that as much as i do on paralletes, but i'm a little bit worse on the floor because i find it much harder to do planche with hands facing backwards, so i record on parallettes... 

Should i drop paralletes away and work only on floor?

I'm sorry for not listening to you guys. Because of my ego i ruined many things in past. I'm so hasty and bullheaded. I want everything as fast as possible, and that technique has been proven wrong in 90+% cases. I hope that people will learn something from this post. 

I'm still not injured, but i will be in near future if i continue to destroy my body like this. I do not wait for my muscles to heal properly, if i tell myself to work on tuesday, i will train on tuesday no matter what happens, and no matter how i feel, because i cannot survive that day if i have that on my mind. And of course after every single workout i get an enormous muscle fatigue, my entire body is in pain for 2-3 days.

I'm an idiot, that is right.

I think you are right about tendons, i can work on half lay or even full planche, but what it does to me? It destroys my tendons instead of making them stronger and more durable. I sometimes feel so much pain in my elbow, almost like it is going to explode from inside out.

Why should i risk everything because of a single skill? Why should i work on my own and not listen to people who learned planche during their lifetime and who are way more experienced than me?

Because i'm an idiot.

I will try to change my mindset, i feel so bad in last few weeks, i'm tired every single morning, i have probably destroyed my central nervous sistem with continuous muscle fatugue and soreness. 

From tomorrow i will rewrite everything, and start from the place where i belong right now. I'm not sure why i was such an idiot, it was so obvious that this is not safe at all and that this is just ridicilous because of the fact: Now i cannot hold positions for time, because my new sistem works on progressions that are far from my reach.

I feel so sorry, i will change definitely. 

I was like: I may become one out of 100 milion people who can do full planche at this height, and i was so excited about that like a stupid kid when it wants to become a superhero from a movie or something like that. I'm tired of feeling "dead" for 24/7 when i'm sore.

Don't abuse yourself, you're not an idiot. You're passionate, but you need some guidance. We're all telling you to stop training the way you are because most of us started out doing exactly what you're doing now. We're not gymnastics coaches, we didn't know any better and neither do you, yet.

Have you had a chance to listen to any of the pod casts with Coach? It's a really great introduction to the way that a lot of us choose to train now.

http://robbwolf.com/2014/01/21/episode-213-guest-coach-christopher-sommer/

http://robbwolf.com/2014/07/01/episode-230-coach-sommer-gymnastic-bodies/

http://robbwolf.com/2014/10/14/episode-241-coach-christopher-sommer/

Thanks "thecolin", i read all of those. Now i see what all of you guys were talking about. I do not have elbow pain every single training, but i do have it from time to time, or i have wrist pain from time to time, sometimes i feel pain in chest tendons, shoulders, ...

And when i have that pain i'm not able to perfrom very well, it hurts as soon as i start to push, and that is what ruins more than 50% of my trainings. So, connective tissue between muscles, tendons and bones is something i cannot strengthen overnight, not even over months, it takes years of continuos work. I'm not injured right now, but i do feel pain and discomfort in different body parts every time i workout, which suggests that i should do less intense workout, and easier progressions, and i also need to start working on my whole body mobility, i'm horrible at stretching...

Coach literally explained every single problem that i have. I thought there are not too many people who do not listen, but it seems like they are everywhere. It feels good to hear those words from someone who spent his whole life learning, examining, investigating, teaching gymnastics, and not just gymnastics, he is like a scientist or doctor in the same time. 

This explaines why all the athletes who can "sleep" in planche work steady for at least 5 years. And it also explaines why people who rush themselves into skills that they are not yet prepared for get injured or simply quit because they get stuck at some point. I got stuck with my front lever for 6 months on the same progression.

That is it, i'm already planing how to fix my errors and throw all my "routines" away, and start a new paper.

GORIZONT said:

I didn't lie about working planche on floor, i do that as much as i do on paralletes, but i'm a little bit worse on the floor because i find it much harder to do planche with hands facing backwards, so i record on parallettes... 

Should i drop paralletes away and work only on floor?

I'm sorry for not listening to you guys. Because of my ego i ruined many things in past. I'm so hasty and bullheaded. I want everything as fast as possible, and that technique has been proven wrong in 90+% cases. I hope that people will learn something from this post. 

I'm still not injured, but i will be in near future if i continue to destroy my body like this. I do not wait for my muscles to heal properly, if i tell myself to work on tuesday, i will train on tuesday no matter what happens, and no matter how i feel, because i cannot survive that day if i have that on my mind. And of course after every single workout i get an enormous muscle fatigue, my entire body is in pain for 2-3 days.

I'm an idiot, that is right.

I think you are right about tendons, i can work on half lay or even full planche, but what it does to me? It destroys my tendons instead of making them stronger and more durable. I sometimes feel so much pain in my elbow, almost like it is going to explode from inside out.

Why should i risk everything because of a single skill? Why should i work on my own and not listen to people who learned planche during their lifetime and who are way more experienced than me?

Because i'm an idiot.

I will try to change my mindset, i feel so bad in last few weeks, i'm tired every single morning, i have probably destroyed my central nervous sistem with continuous muscle fatugue and soreness. 

From tomorrow i will rewrite everything, and start from the place where i belong right now. I'm not sure why i was such an idiot, it was so obvious that this is not safe at all and that this is just ridicilous because of the fact: Now i cannot hold positions for time, because my new sistem works on progressions that are far from my reach.

I feel so sorry, i will change definitely. 

I was like: I may become one out of 100 milion people who can do full planche at this height, and i was so excited about that like a stupid kid when it wants to become a superhero from a movie or something like that. I'm tired of feeling "dead" for 24/7 when i'm sore.

I hope you set up a good plan for yourself. F1 would be the best of choices, but you could look through the prerequisities thread and build a routine with the kilroy template with the same humble attitude you have shown in the previous post. You can pm me and I would gladly take a quick glance at your routine.

Also, a bit off-topic, and I am just courius. What made you see the light?

GORIZONT said:

Thanks "thecolin", i read all of those. Now i see what all of you guys were talking about. I do not have elbow pain every single training, but i do have it from time to time, or i have wrist pain from time to time, sometimes i feel pain in chest tendons, shoulders, ...

And when i have that pain i'm not able to perfrom very well, it hurts as soon as i start to push, and that is what ruins more than 50% of my trainings. So, connective tissue between muscles, tendons and bones is something i cannot strengthen overnight, not even over months, it takes years of continuos work. I'm not injured right now, but i do feel pain and discomfort in different body parts every time i workout, which suggests that i should do less intense workout, and easier progressions, and i also need to start working on my whole body mobility, i'm horrible at stretching...

Coach literally explained every single problem that i have. I thought there are not too many people who do not listen, but it seems like they are everywhere. It feels good to hear those words from someone who spent his whole life learning, examining, investigating, teaching gymnastics, and not just gymnastics, he is like a scientist or doctor in the same time. 

This explaines why all the athletes who can "sleep" in planche work steady for at least 5 years. And it also explaines why people who rush themselves into skills that they are not yet prepared for get injured or simply quit because they get stuck at some point. I got stuck with my front lever for 6 months on the same progression.

That is it, i'm already planing how to fix my errors and throw all my "routines" away, and start a new paper.

Why dont you simply save money and buy foundation ?

Paf said:

Why dont you simply save money and buy foundation ?

I saved 50 dollars in 6 months. Do the math and see how much time it would took me to collect enough money to buy all foundations. And those 50 dollars if i do not buy anything, and i do not get that money from my parents, they are poor, i get that on holidays twice a year...

I would buy foundation instantly if i could.

Dont buy what you dont need. Also you have money for gymnastic gym which is not necessarily and much other stuff i guess. I guess you have your free time, use it to work something for somebody and get money.

There is always a solution if you really want something so dont make exuses.



 

Without sounding too rude; you do not live his life and therefore you should not force him to elaborate about his economical situation. There is a difference between excuses made about bad training habits economical prioritizing.

I train without a gym, run several hundred meters just to reach the "equipment" i need. I got F1 by surprise, but before that I tried to make the best out of it still.

Ok, i will quit planche on parallel bars and start practise it only on floor with palms facing backwards. 

Today i was well rested, first i tried basic tuck planche to see where i am at with this type of grip, and i did a 30 seconds hold pretty easily, it would not be much benefitial to work 5 sets of 30+ seconds. So i decided to do 6 sets of 10 seconds advanced tuck planche.

I'm not sure about my form, i trained at night outside, i couldn't record it, but my friend said it was good, he said my upper back is rounded and i did a full depression with protraction.

Everything was going fine until forth set. I started to lose balance, my body started to lean forward by itself. Note that i have not worked much with this grip before. I'm not use to it. I suddenly felt i'm not able to push the ground as hard as i did at the beginning.

So it was 10 10 10 8(face plant) 5 5. First two sets went easily, i could go for 15.

There is just no way i was expecting that to happen, i never had a faceplant in advanced tuck before, but as i said this is quite a new grip for me.

Now, the question is: Should i keep doing this 6x10 seconds advanced tuck planche for 2 months. I will probably get use to it after few more trainings. Or should i go back to tuck planche and hold for 5x30, or it will become so easy after i get use to the grip, maybe it would be silly.

On sunday i will record my advanced tuck planche, so you can give me a first normal critique, because i never really send you a proper hold.

I would not recommend you to use hands facing backwards, do it with palms facing forward or a little to the side but not backwards. Just what I learn from multiple post in this forum about people using palms facing backward and in consequence getting injured.

Read Coach's post here: https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/17543-my-l-sit-evolution-im-almost-there/?hl=%2Bpalms+%2Bfacing+%2Bbackwards#entry169827

I cannot do it with palms facing forward, i feel pain in my wrist when i lean like that.

On the other hand i did it with palms facing sideways may times before. And it is at least two times easier for me than to do it with palms facing backwards. I do not have any of those "faceplant" problems if i use that grip.

Lets see few more thoughts on this, then i will make a decision. 

chuchodani said:

I would not recommend you to use hands facing backwards

 

The post you are referring too is just talking about L-sits. I've never seen it said that you can't start working planche progressions with your hands backwards early on if you progress with patience.

If you feel pain in your wrist with palms facing forward it could mean your wrist is underdeveloped, try to address that issue by conditioning your wrist.

thecolin said:

The post you are referring too is just talking about L-sits. I've never seen it said that you can't start working planche progressions with your hands backwards early on if you progress with patience.

Sorry if I made a mistake, but I think it could be too much pressure on his elbows considering he is coming from a period of using inadequate progressions, it could be more safe to use palms facing forward. Just my humble opinion

I personally do planche with hands backwards and I think it's ok to do so with that hand position, although I've been doing it with hands backwards since I started because I wanted the extra strength benefits. I say, just be cautious of your elbows and have patience. Try holding Planche Leans with hands facing backwards and see if you could do it like that for 3x60s without feeling sore in your inner elbows and biceps. I'm certainly no expert and not one to give advice, but it's just my opinion.

I would suggest planche leans too. They will condition your wrists and prepare them for none-supported holds when doing them with fingers facing forward, if they are too hard try normal pseudo planche hold. From what you were saying it also seems like you have a hard time finding your posterior pelvic tilt, planche leans will let you learn that easier.

Planche training with fingers facing backwards puts more pressure on brachialis and it is not recommended for begginers. Read this.

Well, i don't know what to say, i have bad wrists, i ruined them 3 years ago when i was going to the gym, i wasn't doing bench press right and some other exercises. I didn't mention that when i lean forward for a center of mass higher than my straddle planche i feel pain in my wrist when i turn them sideways. And when my wrist is pointing forwards i feel some pain even when i'm doing handstands.

On other other hand when i point my wrist backwards i have no wrist pain what so ever, but i'm still not able to lean as much as i can with sideways grip, because i cannot control myself when i lean further than my straddle center of mass with feet on the floor. I do not feel any pain in my elbow or bicep tendon, or what you call it - brachialis. 

So only problem i have is lack of control with that grip. but i think i will get use to it very fast, all the other grips make me feel uncomfortable at some point.

Considering that planche is much more demanding on the elbows than an l sit, you should not start out with hands backwards. That's just silly.

Also, if you dig into these forums one should attain 5x60s of adv frog, tuck, and adv.tuck before progressing.

Vincearoo said:

Considering that planche is much more demanding on the elbows than an l sit, you should not start out with hands backwards. That's just silly.

Also, if you dig into these forums one should attain 5x60s of adv frog, tuck, and adv.tuck before progressing.

I admit it was dumb of me back then for starting with my hands backwards (my ego still had control of me ). I was a very cautious person as my parents can't afford health insurance or any trips to the doctor (obviously I don't have that kind of money either), so I trained as slowly and carefully as I could and rested when I needed it. I do recommend the information Vincearoo gave.

Ok, i will start working planche only on floor and with wrists turned sideways. Just one more question, when am i going to change my grip to backwards actualy? After i learn the full planche with wrists turned sideways?

On sunday i will record my first hold on advanced tuck planche with sideways grip, i think i can hit at least 5x20+ with correct form, considering that this grip is at least two times easier for me than the backwards grip.

Once i find out what i can hold on sunday, i will keep doing that until i reach 5x60 seconds on advanced tuck planche. So if i find out i am bad at advanced tuck i will go back to basic tuck. Although i was able to hit 40+ seconds on basic tuck four months ago, i do not know where i am at with this grip at this moment.