6.2 learning the planche

I have to add something more, i think you don't fully understand my situation.

I have to work on 16 skills at the same time, and i only have 3 days a week to accomplish that. I did have a lot of time 5 days ago and <<, but i go to college now, and i have very little time for other activities. I would continue with something similar to SSC, but i know i have a weak shoulders and i know i have to implement weight training for PL and FL specifically into this, to speed things up. I actually think there is nothing wrong about it. Now i do a circle training to fit all the skills together in a short workout session.

1 circle: HS to planche (adv. tuck), Inverted hang to FL(straddle), straddle planche hold x3+ seconds, straddle front lever x3+ seconds, i jump from one exercise to another, and do 3 sets.

2 circle: Pl push ups-adv tuck, Fl pull ups-adv.tuck, hs push ups, 2 sets

3 circle: muscle up, one arm pull up, human flag, x2

4: back lever, dragon flag on pole, V sit, Bodyline position exercise for planche - box maltese press - something like that, x2

5: straight arm press with protraction on a bench with dumbells, also dumbell raises with straight arm in standing position - retraction + depression. x3

That's it, i don't get sore after this, because i don't give 100%, more like 80%. And with program i can work on all the skills a i need for a street workout competition next year, i hope to learn all these skills next year.

So, i don't know how to fit SSC with all these exercises, so i decided to do these circles. 

Another thing when i do planche on one day, i fail on FL day because i feel sore, there is just no other way to fit all this together in a 1 hour training. Also, i can work on straddle again, my injury has healed fully, no discomfort, nothing, i will not play football ever again in my life.

Good for you with you having recovered from your injury. But that is really the only good thing about your post.

Have you ever considered incorporating these 16 skills (wtf) into step by step progressions? A lot of them overlap way too much, and you will fatigue before even doing 2 sets of every exercise.

Have you considered doing shoulder rehab exercises to strengthen your weak shoulders instead of burning them down with advanced skill work?

You cannot prepare yourself well for PL and FL with weighttraining even though you THINK you can.

A lot of the skills you mention are dangerous to perform without proper preparation, especially if you have weak shoulders.

You said you never ended up sore, but you did after planche training?

Why not cut down volume to be able to do 100% effort?

Also, I think your workout is more dangerous than playing football.

If you have not made the considerations I made (I am not a professional by any means) you are too immature to create a proper routine. Everything stinks of ego and wanting it all right now.

I simply do not care if you do not want to hear this. You keep posting in this thread and as long as you stick around people will tell you that you are wrong until you are right. And no more of this mistrust of people and lack of discipline-thing. These are excuses now made by your ego because of a weak mentality. Maybe if you hear this enough times you will learn.

Best of regards.

Ok, thanks for your reply. i should have said 16 exercises - not skills. 

Step by step progression yes, in that workout i do not do any exercsise progression i'm not capable to do properly.

I said i have weak shoulders, but they are weak when i compare them to the lower part of my body - core for example.

My core is super strong, for example, i can hold a full planche position for 5-10 seconds when i do a negative maltese board press, but i do not feel as much pressure on my shoulders on that exercise as in a true planche, so it is not an indicator of my true shoulder strength at all.

I can sleep in a backlever, wide, german hang grip back lever, i can do any of those with ease. Human flag i'm working towards it, i hold it a little bit lower then parallel. So, only exercise i'm not capable of doing in those above is a one arm pull up, and i work on lowering myself slowly with one finger on the other hand as a help. So it is not a hard training for me at all. 

I said one month ago my tendons hurt me, my wrist and elbow, now i have no pain what so ever. I feel like my arms are more than straight, they look hyperextended now, i heared that is very good for planche.

Weight training helped me a lot already, i started with 10g dummbells 10 days ago and i only raised them up and lower down, now i can hold them in a planche or fl position for 10+ seconds. 

Now i can do straddle planche with 80% of my max. effort, so i think i made some progress, i should max. out on sunday because i haven't maxed out for one month, i have a 4 days brake, i will try to record at least 5 seconds straddle.

Thanks for not deleting the topic, i was just nervous and angry that day, i'm serious about this, i do not do anything that can injure me, all this above is below my max. effort.

I guess I'm not clear exactly what you're needing then. I'm not trying to be snide, but it appears you're saying you're completely injury free and your training program is perfect for you. So what kind of advice did you come here for exactly? 

GORIZONT said:

 

Thanks for not deleting the topic, i was just nervous and angry that day

We all have those days. Serious training can be as hard on the mind as it is on the body!

Yeah, i'm injury free.

This is the thing, when i created this topic i didn't have any clue about proper planche form, and that was the main reason why i started this. I wanted to know the key points like protraction+depression+posterior pelvic tilt.

And, i have seen some people who started just like me on this forum, and after they learned the basics they keep posting new videos or updates of their progress. That is exactly what i did. Once i found those key points out, i just wanted to post my updates from time to time, for example: if i change something in my routine, or if a make some progress or ...

And, of course if i post a video, i was hoping to get some insight of what i'm doing wrong, i didn't want to hear things like: your routine sucks and all that, because i would find that out by myself when i start to feel overtrained or sore. Now my routine fits very well, i feel good and i make progress. That is the point, no one is the same, if something works for me, it doesn't have to work for you. 

So, i'm not sure about this, but i think this part of forum is for correcting form, maybe i asked wrong questions in the past, whatever...

I just want to keep you guys updated about my progress, and when i do something new, like new progression i will post a video to make sure i'm doing it right. 

And, i don't have money to afford any foundation, i have 50 dollars in my pocket once a year...

I think everyone want to see you holding a Full Pl that's why they give you advices to not get injured x)

I maxed out today, i tryed 10 different things and i didn't have my friend to record my at the gym, but there where some other dudes who helped me with position estimate, and here are the results:

full planche on paralel bars first try, the angle between my feet and butt was around 20-25 degree, i got in slowly and hold for two seconds.

So it is not a full planche at all, but that is how i measure my progress, my feet was at the parallel bars height and i had a good lean, i try to hold smaller angle between my legs and butt every time i max out. I was able to lower my self from HS to half lay and stop for one second at the bottom. Three straddle planche push ups. 4 seconds straddle front lever. I was also able to lower my self very slowly from inverted hang to half lay front lever, but i couldn't stop completely. Other things are less important.

My last max out was, 25 degree full planche fail, and then about 30-35 degree 1.5 seconds hold, and i wasn't able to do a straddle front lever, that was one month ago. So, i made some progress, not too much, but it is good. And i improved my form a lot.

Hi, i was in the gym today, i did my regular circle training, here is a video of my fifth try http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=nv2vcm%3E&s=8#.VEPpj_l_vgw 

I'm getting closer to half lay full planche

not really man. shoudlers are not protracted enough, not depressed, that is barely a hold and half lay means a perfect bodyline from shoulders to knee at least. your body should be horizontal but its clearly tilted to the floor.

could you post a video of what you would call a perfect tuck planche (at elast a 10s hold?)?

DieKatze said:

not really man. shoudlers are not protracted enough, not depressed, that is barely a hold and half lay means a perfect bodyline from shoulders to knee at least. your body should be horizontal but its clearly tilted to the floor.

 

could you post a video of what you would call a perfect tuck planche (at elast a 10s hold?)?

Yeah, and i said i'm getting closer to it, which means it is not a half lay, think before you write something. And, this is not a max out attempt, it was my fifth set, i did much better on my first try...

But, if you look at my last video, i made some progress. I could protract a little bit more, i was already tired.

So why do you post your worst set? Why dont you just work the progressions that suit your level and post a video of those?

This is what i did, first i tried full planche hold, feet at parallet bar level, i did a two second hold, then i did a half lay front lever, then full planche feet a little lower hold, again front lever half lay, and then i decided to try half lay planche. That is the thing, i already lost some power on those full planche tries, but again, please do not comment my training system, i already said i don't want that, just comment my form and that is it. I don't have to post my best try, all i need is a simple evaluation, like you are not enough protracted or lift your knees up, you said that ofc, but I felt embarrassed when you said post your ad.v. tuck video. Please do the same thing i did and then try adv. tuck, you will see how much harder this is.

DieKatze said:

not really man. shoudlers are not protracted enough, not depressed, that is barely a hold and half lay means a perfect bodyline from shoulders to knee at least. your body should be horizontal but its clearly tilted to the floor.

 

could you post a video of what you would call a perfect tuck planche (at elast a 10s hold?)?

His shoulders were protracted and depressed, but yes it isn't a half lay planche because it is too piked. You have to remember that protraction does not define a planche.

GORIZONT said:

This is what i did, first i tried full planche hold, feet at parallet bar level, i did a two second hold, then i did a half lay front lever, then full planche feet a little lower hold, again front lever half lay, and then i decided to try half lay planche. That is the thing, i already lost some power on those full planche tries, but again, please do not comment my training system, i already said i don't want that, just comment my form and that is it. I don't have to post my best try, all i need is a simple evaluation, like you are not enough protracted or lift your knees up, you said that ofc, but I felt embarrassed when you said post your ad.v. tuck video. Please do the same thing i did and then try adv. tuck, you will see how much harder this is.

Next time post your first attempt.

B1214N said:

His shoulders were protracted and depressed, but yes it isn't a half lay planche because it is too piked. You have to remember that protraction does not define a planche.

they are protracted but not enough compared to "real" planches. his shoulders clearly rise towards his head: i cant see significant depression.

what do you mean it does not define the planche? it is a vital part of it: without protraction i would not call it a planche.

DieKatze said:

they are protracted but not enough compared to "real" planches. his shoulders clearly rise towards his head: i cant see significant depression.

 

what do you mean it does not define the planche? it is a vital part of it: without protraction i would not call it a planche.

No, it looks fully protracted and depressed to me. Show me those "real" planches you are talking about.

The planche is a support lever (straight/hollow body held horizontally above arms with straight arms). Protraction is important to make a stable base, but it is possible to hold it with less protraction which makes it unnecessarily harder. The FIG doesn't state that it has to be protracted.

I know what i was doing and only i can know how much i'm actually protracting. There are many different ways you can choose to learn the same move. I can hold adv tuck for years and i will still not be able to do half lay without actually trying it. That is what i think, on that clip i got a little bit tired, but i was protracting as hard as i can, it was not the full protraction, maybe around 90%, but i was close to achieve it. You think i'm not protracted because my upper back is not rounded, those two things have nothing together. My hips were lower then parallel and that is the reason why it looks like that. And, the way i entered this position is much harder to achieve than from adv. tuck planche. I can also say that what i did that day is much harder than what i did on my last clip before this. Just try it, protract as hard as you can and keep you hips a little lower and you will see. I also tried PPT, that is why my butt is not as high as usual.

I think holding your body below parallel is actually much harder than holding it a little bit higher than parallel.

And, i feel like i can easily protract in the position on clip, but the biggest problem for me is to adjust my core and lower body to achieve parallel, it feels so strange, i just have to get use to it.

Anyways, i will record my first try on sunday, because that is the only day i can use a gymnastic gym. 

I'm amazed by your inability to shut the @$%# #$ AND LISTEN.

I deleted my previous comment. You don't want to take my advice so I take it back. I will not try to help you anymore cause of your ignorance and enormous ego. Stick with your "way". 

Your whole post is trash talk and full of excuses. Doesn't worth anyone's time if you don't accept help. 

Don't mind me, I'm just enjoying the show.

Yeah i should accept help from someone who says i'm not protracting, are you blind? I maybe lost 10% of protraction at the end, if so...

HB_Ron said:

I'm amazed by your inability to shut the @$%# #$ AND LISTEN.

 

I deleted my previous comment. You don't want to take my advice so I take it back. I will not try to help you anymore cause of your ignorance and enormous ego. Stick with your "way". 

 

Your whole post is trash talk and full of excuses. Doesn't worth anyone's time if you don't accept help. 

Let us just leave him there in his own thread. It became apparent pretty quickly that he is not in our reach.

GORIZONT said:

I know what i was doing and only i can know how much i'm actually protracting. There are many different ways you can choose to learn the same move. I can hold adv tuck for years and i will still not be able to do half lay without actually trying it. That is what i think, on that clip i got a little bit tired, but i was protracting as hard as i can, it was not the full protraction, maybe around 90%, but i was close to achieve it. You think i'm not protracted because my upper back is not rounded, those two things have nothing together. My hips were lower then parallel and that is the reason why it looks like that. And, the way i entered this position is much harder to achieve than from adv. tuck planche. I can also say that what i did that day is much harder than what i did on my last clip before this. Just try it, protract as hard as you can and keep you hips a little lower and you will see. I also tried PPT, that is why my butt is not as high as usual.

I think holding your body below parallel is actually much harder than holding it a little bit higher than parallel.

And, i feel like i can easily protract in the position on clip, but the biggest problem for me is to adjust my core and lower body to achieve parallel, it feels so strange, i just have to get use to it.

Anyways, i will record my first try on sunday, because that is the only day i can use a gymnastic gym. 

man everybody is just trying to help you out. your whole approach is just flawed:

lets just say, you want to squat 200kg. how do you approach it? do you start by using 200kg and using little ROM and mediocre technique, trying to go deeper und deeper every time or do you start with an easer weight, use that for a given number of sets and reps and increase the weight, i.e. difficulty, when time has come? of course you would go with the second appraoch, why would the planche (or any exercise really) be any different?

I understand, i should do progressions i can hold with correct form, that is a true. That is how everybody learns these static moves. I never said i'm not doing that at all, i just do things in the way i think is the most beneficial for me. Lets talk about my last training, when i tried full planche and recorded that 70-80% half lay. I did that i until felt like i don't have anymore strength to hold anything closer to half lay than to adv. tuck, so i switched up to adv. tuck and hold it for 4 sets of 15 seconds. So at the end of the day, i build up those 60 seconds.

So the point is, i first try something i'm working towards, and then i do an easier progressions to build volume up to 60 seconds total. Lets say i did about 10 seconds hold in 4-5 half lay tries, then i would do 50 seconds adv. tuck in 3-4 sets. This doesn't mean i'm actually expecting to do full planche out of nowhere, i'm just trying to get my muscles and body more use to it.

Anyways, i don't want to argue with everybody in here. Can you just leave things here. Can this thread stay like this, i will post new videos from time to time, so you can see if i make some progress. I just want to prove that, there are some other ways you can use to learn this skill, not only the same one everybody use. I learned all the things i wanted, all the things i was trying to learn from the beginning, but the only thing i will never agree with you guys, is that there is no other way to learn planche other than doing those sets of x*x=60 seconds.

I was in the gym again. So this is my first try. This time i tried to enter half lay, but again i'm still not able to feel the position properly. I was a little bit closer now than on my last clip. I did it with more depression, which ended up messing my full protraction, it was about 80% protracted.

On the other hand, i'm obviously not ready for half lay planche. But that is the point. I just try to feel the position. I did 3 sets of 2-3 seconds. All three attempts are pretty similar. It wasn't a hold, like my last clip, i was very slowly lowering my body.

Then i did 4 sets of 15 seconds half straddle planche. 

When i compare this clip with my last clip, i think this one is better in terms of bodyline, but i was less protracted than on last clip, but more depressed.

My goal is to learn half lay planche for 5 seconds before 2015. And, i think i will get there, i make very small progress every single week. Also, i had 2 days brake before trying this.

I had to reupload, shitty quality video. http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=11w5v79%3E&s=8#.VE0uhvl5Pgw

Not enough protraction, lower back sagging, not horizontal bodyline, wrong head positioning, bending legs too much, not doing it on the ground etc.

It is gonna take a while...