6.2 learning the planche

GORIZONT said:

Ok, i will start working planche only on floor and with wrists turned sideways. Just one more question, when am i going to change my grip to backwards actualy? After i learn the full planche with wrists turned sideways?

On sunday i will record my first hold on advanced tuck planche with sideways grip, i think i can hit at least 5x20+ with correct form, considering that this grip is at least two times easier for me than the backwards grip.

Once i find out what i can hold on sunday, i will keep doing that until i reach 5x60 seconds on advanced tuck planche. So if i find out i am bad at advanced tuck i will go back to basic tuck. Although i was able to hit 40+ seconds on basic tuck four months ago, i do not know where i am at with this grip at this moment.

It is appropriate to turn them out when getting ready for ring training. This would mean that you should have mastered the progression you are turning out (should be easy) and have finished other arm conditioning exercises (ie rope climbs and support holds).

Daniel Burnham said:

It is appropriate to turn them out when getting ready for ring training.

Does this only apply to tuck planche? Or to planche leans as well? I was doing planche leans with my hands fully rotated backwards at a seminar a few months back. Coach made a point of saying my form looked good, no mention that I was doing something harmful.

Depends on the persons level but planche leans with hands back are much less demanding than tuck or adv tuck with hands back so you are probably fine.

You should also be able to do supinated grip BL before training planche with hands backwards.

I decided to start today, i was very well rested. And there will be no more trainings in the gymnastics gym, i spent all the money i had for it, and my parents think that is stupid, they are like: you better study two more hours instead of doing those stupid exercises.
Anyways, i thought i'm going to be better with the sideways grip, actually i did almost the same training as my last, but with better form, i found out i didn't have enough protraction with backwards grip, it was actualy pretty ugly. I did 5x10 and last one 7 seconds. On first 3 tries i could hold 5 more seconds, but then i would fail on next few sets...
Now i don't know if that is enough to start training with, or should i go back to tuck planche. Because i'm not sure if my muscles forget how to hold for a longer period of time, because i have not done this for almost two months. I get in the position very easily, and as the time goes on i feel like i cannot push the ground as hard as usual. 
You were right, i did everything wrong, i found out i can also hold adv. tuck front lever for 15 seconds barely. 
But i'm back on track, i do not care about time anymore, i just wanna learn it properly.
What about my form, i was alone so i could only take a timercount picture: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=28wj5l0&s=8#.VFU0Wvl5Pgw

GORIZONT said:

I decided to start today, i was very well rested. And there will be no more trainings in the gymnastics gym, i spent all the money i had for it, and my parents think that is stupid, they are like: you better study two more hours instead of doing those stupid exercises.

Anyways, i thought i'm going to be better with the sideways grip, actually i did almost the same training as my last, but with better form, i found out i didn't have enough protraction with backwards grip, it was actualy pretty ugly. I did 5x10 and last one 7 seconds. On first 3 tries i could hold 5 more seconds, but then i would fail on next few sets...

Now i don't know if that is enough to start training with, or should i go back to tuck planche. Because i'm not sure if my muscles forget how to hold for a longer period of time, because i have not done this for almost two months. I get in the position very easily, and as the time goes on i feel like i cannot push the ground as hard as usual. 

You were right, i did everything wrong, i found out i can also hold adv. tuck front lever for 15 seconds barely. 

But i'm back on track, i do not care about time anymore, i just wanna learn it properly.

What about my form, i was alone so i could only take a timercount picture: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=28wj5l0&s=8#.VFU0Wvl5Pgw

I thought you made a big turn earlier. Seems like it was not as big as I expected and hoped for. You will find the solutions to your problems by stepping back even further; not only to build shoulder strength (which it sounds like you have plenty of), but also wrist strength and flexibility, give your elbows joints a break from your overtraining, learn proper ppt in an easier position etc...

I think you are doing damage control here. Go and learn the lean variations before playing around with planche. I even say that as an F1 student. I stated my opinion and probably the best way to train for you right now in an earlier post, which you ignored. In addition, you will also learn to control your ego instead of letting it take control of you again by stepping back to the VERY beginning and build your way up from there.

Alexander Egebak said:

I thought you made a big turn earlier. Seems like it was not as big as I expected and hoped for. You will find the solutions to your problems by stepping back even further; not only to build shoulder strength (which it sounds like you have plenty of), but also wrist strength and flexibility, give your elbows joints a break from your overtraining, learn proper ppt in an easier position etc...

 

I think you are doing damage control here. Go and learn the lean variations before playing around with planche. I even say that as an F1 student. I stated my opinion and probably the best way to train for you right now in an earlier post, which you ignored. In addition, you will also learn to control your ego instead of letting it take control of you again by stepping back to the VERY beginning and build your way up from there.

Yes, you are right. I have found that out by myself yesterday after i finished the training. All those routines i did, i overtrained my tendons and connective tissue. It sounds funny that i cannot hold a advanced tuck planche for longer than 15 seconds, and i was able to do hold 15 seconds on half straddle planche. I think i have not lose my muscle strenght, i instead lost my base strength. I didn't mention, yesterday when i started to workout, everything seemed fine, but at the end of my first hold i already felt pain in my elbow, and also some pain starting from my neck and down the shoulders to my wrist. That is why i stop after 10 seconds, it feels terrible. And after i finished the holds i tried to do a few sets of adv. tuck planche push ups. And after 3 reps, i felt an enourmous pain in my back shoulder, i simply quit at that point. Once again, i had no pain before i started. I'm overtrained.

I read all the signs of over training, and found out that i have ALL of them. 

I will make a 7 days brake, i will not do anything related to skill training. 

And then, after i make that brake i will start from a scratch - planche lean. I cannot lose anything, i can only benefit from this, because i have not had a 7 days brake from training since i was born...

GORIZONT said:

Yes, you are right. I have found that out by myself yesterday after i finished the training. All those routines i did, i overtrained my tendons and connective tissue. It sounds funny that i cannot hold a advanced tuck planche for longer than 15 seconds, and i was able to do hold 15 seconds on half straddle planche. I think i have not lose my muscle strenght, i instead lost my base strength. I didn't mention, yesterday when i started to workout, everything seemed fine, but at the end of my first hold i already felt pain in my elbow, and also some pain starting from my neck and down the shoulders to my wrist. That is why i stop after 10 seconds, it feels terrible. And after i finished the holds i tried to do a few sets of adv. tuck planche push ups. And after 3 reps, i felt an enourmous pain in my back shoulder, i simply quit at that point. Once again, i had no pain before i started. I'm overtrained.

I read all the signs of over training, and found out that i have ALL of them. 

I will make a 7 days brake, i will not do anything related to skill training. 

And then, after i make that brake i will start from a scratch - planche lean. I cannot lose anything, i can only benefit from this, because i have not had a 7 days brake from training since i was born...

You should learn to listen to us before trying on your own, after all we have been right all the time up to now at least...

It seems like you have a lot of problems, which may have originated from overtraining and bad training habits, but probably have manifested into injuries by now. Even planche lean may prove to be too advanced for you.

If I were you I would try to earn a few bucks and save up for F1. You really needed for several reasons; to be humbled enough to train consistently and start all over, to force yourself not to overtrain, to have a good routine for your level, to slowly fix the injuries and imbalances you have gained by training on your own and because, with all due respect, you do not have the knowledge to create a good enough routine for yourself.

In my opinion this is a must. You will not make much progress on your own unless you happen to become something like a physiotherapist very soon, which is not very likely. I do not say this to put you down, I say this because of observations telling me you need to bring yourself and/or your training to the next level.

You know what, i lost my mind. I quit, i will train for fun. All these months i have been training like i'm competing with someone, i trained like my life is depending on it. I should have studied more instead, i lost two years on my faculty, this is my last chance to fix things up. I even trained inbetween my exams... There is no money from this, i cannot become a competitive athlete with these height/weight ratio, only thing i can do is feed my ego by "thinking" that i'm actually progression and getting closer to my goal, which is a complete bull****.

So, that is it, i will train for fun now, with my friends, instead of destroying my body and mind for nothing but my stupid ego.

I hope you have fun reading all this. I have tried like many others, but as someone already said, i do not have a mental fortitude to put in a continuos work into something and achieve it. 

Only way i can achieve this or train properly is to buy foundation, but my parents will never give me money for that because i'm a very bad student, i do not deserve it.

Bye.

GORIZONT said:

I will make a 7 days brake, i will not do anything related to skill training. 

And then, after i make that brake i will start from a scratch - planche lean. I cannot lose anything, i can only benefit from this, because i have not had a 7 days brake from training since i was born...

If you have been overtraining for months/years, one week of rest will not be enough if you want your connective tissue to be fully healed.

1-3 months will probably be necessary because metabolic rate of tendons and connective tissues is 1/10 of muscle tissue according to Coach Sommer.

Hey, i just wanna let you know, i didn't actualy quit. I had some sort of mental breakdown after my last training because of all the pain and health problems i got from my stupidity. I made a 7 days complete brake from skill training, i was running and stretching on daily, i also did a lot of wrist and shoulder mobility exercises. My mind has refreshed, i feel amaizing, last two days i got up from my bed full of energy. It turned out i wasn't injured, i was just too exhausted.

So, i warmed up very well and decided to try a planche lean today. And the result is positive. No pain what so ever, no discomfort, i feel like i can push harder than ever. But, i'm not going to screw things up this time. I made a completely new plan with my new friend from serbia, who has learned correct full planche. He told me everything i need to know.

It would be very ungenerous from me to quit after all the help and tips i have been given. Time is not a limit. I will work strictly as the program says. Two months of SSC, then a deload week, after that couple days brake and a max out, after that SSC again, and so on.

I will not bother you guys anymore with lies and too many posts, i will keep training, and i will only post videos of my maxouts. 

So, new video somwhere around 20-th of january 2015. 

GORIZONT said:

Hey, i just wanna let you know, i didn't actualy quit. I had some sort of mental breakdown after my last training because of all the pain and health problems i got from my stupidity. I made a 7 days complete brake from skill training, i was running and stretching on daily, i also did a lot of wrist and shoulder mobility exercises. My mind has refreshed, i feel amaizing, last two days i got up from my bed full of energy. It turned out i wasn't injured, i was just too exhausted.

So, i warmed up very well and decided to try a planche lean today. And the result is positive. No pain what so ever, no discomfort, i feel like i can push harder than ever. But, i'm not going to screw things up this time. I made a completely new plan with my new friend from serbia, who has learned correct full planche. He told me everything i need to know.

It would be very ungenerous from me to quit after all the help and tips i have been given. Time is not a limit. I will work strictly as the program says. Two months of SSC, then a deload week, after that couple days brake and a max out, after that SSC again, and so on.

I will not bother you guys anymore with lies and too many posts, i will keep training, and i will only post videos of my maxouts. 

So, new video somwhere around 20-th of january 2015. 

Great to hear you did not give up!

Do you mind posting a picture of your planche lean for coaching purposes?

Also, I hope you do strength training besides training for planche. You should not end up getting injured from something as simple as muscular imbalances.

Your workout plan seems decent from what I can tell. When you are reaching more advanced levels you should deload more often, this also depends on how much you push yourself and how much you train per week. I hope your serbian friend's plan will get you there, slowly. I really think it is a good idea to just completely stick with a plan. If for slower strength gains, then atleast you beat your ego and you learn the joy of succesful long-term commitment.

A few sticking points for PL for you:

- Wrists should be forward in my opinion to help stretching them and have more feeling in the later hand balancing. No pain should occur.

- Hands should be around hip level.

- You should be able to feel the individual muscles when protracting and depressing.

- You should not pike or sag your ass too much, but just find the perfect point for a stright back (posterior pelvic tilt). For me that is a burning sensation in my abs that witnesses full ppt.

- Arms should be completely extended, elbows locked.

For more, read the sticky in the strength forum-

I am not able to do planche lean yet, but will get there soon. For me it is lack of wrist mobility to place hands just at hip level. When I get there we will see if I have the strength to properly hold that position.

Hey i have been doing SSC for over a month, and two days ago i made a terrible mistake, i worked my planche progression on floor that was i little bit slippery, i thought it wasn't slieppery enough to make my left arm slip away. And that actualy happened, my arm sliped away, since i was in a tuck planche, i literally went into a wide planche, i heard a crack-popping noise inside my shoulder. Few seconds later my arm started to numb, i felt sudden weakness in my left arm, i picked some ice and hold it for 20 minutes. The next day when i woke up, i wasn't able to lift my arm in any direction up to shoulder level, i think i got a shoulder tendinitis. So, i planning to rest for as long as it takes for my shoulder to heal, but this will probably follow me forever, i already had tricep tendinitis, i still feel that pain when i try harder exercises. This is maybe the end of my planche career, we will se, i had a very good training, it was my first hold and after 30 seconds it happened...

X-ray or ultrasound would show what really is, it could be anything. Be smart and visit your doctor.

Paf said:

X-ray or ultrasound would show what really is, it could be anything. Be smart and visit your doctor.

I second this, I just pulled my hamstring a couple of weeks ago and thanks to the ultrasound the doctor could see that it was just a "minor" thing.

Thank God, it is just a minor anterior deltoid strain, there is no damage to the joint ligaments, i'm already able to move my arm in 90% of full range of motion. I just feel a very little discomfort when i try to extend my arms fully overhead. So, i'll wait until i regain full shoulder movement, and then i will start with a rehabilitation process.

Hey, I finally regained a full range of motion, I asked my doctor about rehabilitation exercises, he gave me plenty of them, but most of those exercises are unrelated to gymnastics. I told him about planche, he had know idea what i'm talking about. I would like to know, if there is a principle, or a specific way to get back to gymnastics skills. I would like to get back slowly, and not reinjure myself. No workout on slippery floor anymore.

Do all your rehab exercises for the period of time the doctor suggested and then start planche-specific work.

A more individual assessment could be useful, but I am not a doctor, and you are asking us on the net.

I'm ready to get back to business, i came too far to turn back now. I have been strengthening my shoulders for past two weeks in the gym. I'm slowly building my way up, this injury came just at the right time. It was a warning, it just had to happen, it was meant to be. I deserved to injure my shoulder for not listening to you guys. But, now i'm ready to spent years on learning all the skills from top to tail. I passed all my exams, my motivation is bigger than ever. So, the party has just started, i'll be back to planche leans soon, now i'm just doing basic stuff.

Hi, it has been a while since the last time i posted my current situation. Two months have passed since the injury day. I started doing planche leans one month ago, tuck planche 15 days ago, and finally advanced tuck planche 5 days ago. Although i could hold it without any pain 15 days ago, i was still kind of scared to try something difficult at that point. I'm also back to front lever progressions and handstand. There is only one exercise i cannot do for some reason, it is a german hang. I do not really feel the same type of pain. It is more like a lack of flexibility pain. I remember the day when i was first trying it, about half a year ago, it was so painfull and strange. It feels something like that. So, i'm just doing some stretches and mobility exercises towards it, i hope i will be able to do it in couple of weeks without any discomfort. 

So, i did 3 sets of 10-15 seconds of adv. tuck planche, pretty easily, no pain what so ever. I do not hold my sets for as long as i can. I kind of save my shoulder a little bit. I give about 80% of my max. 

The goal is to hold advanced tuck until 15 april, then i'll max out and make a new plan for future.

I'll try to record my first set next time, it will be the first video of mine where i hold something for longer than 3 seconds

I think you shouldn't do german hangs, I would rather focus on more basic mobility like building my bridge and earlier progressions of shoulders dislocations.

You are going too fast into it again I think. Can you atleast hold 3 x 30 seconds of planche lean and the frog stand variations?

Btw, german hangs takes many months to build up to if you are stiff. From your words I can tell you that you are. Do not force your shoulders open.

I can, i was first holding basic tuck for 30+ seconds and then i got back to advanced tuck. I didn't lose my shoulder strength at all, only the flexibility, which i'm working on really hard. There si really no pain in planche movements,i hope that is a good sign. I did have pain in my shoulder one month ago when i tried tuck, but at that time i was just doing planche leans without pain.

GORIZONT said:

I can, i was first holding basic tuck for 30+ seconds and then i got back to advanced tuck. I didn't lose my shoulder strength at all, only the flexibility, which i'm working on really hard. There si really no pain in planche movements,i hope that is a good sign. I did have pain in my shoulder one month ago when i tried tuck, but at that time i was just doing planche leans without pain.

You are going too fast back to where you got your injury last time. I would not like to sound cynical, but 50/50 risk of getting that tendonitis back. Also, post videos of planche lean, and your tuck planches.

Okay, it is pretty fast tho. But, i would never proceed to advanced tuck if there was any pain or something like that, or if i feel like i do not have the needed strength. But, it would have been much safer if i had started doing basic tuck few days ago, and advanced tuck in april. You know my ego... But, at least i do not risk and do anything that triggers pain. Remember i was doing full planche negatives, and wide advanced tuck planche holds. Those are the exercises i got my injury from probably, i was doing that for 2-3 months, then started SSC, but my shoulders were so tired and destroyed there was no coming back at that point. The day i got injured i worked out with sore shoulders and on slippery floor, so stupid...

Anyways, i only blame myself for that. Now, i only workout when i feel great, and for videos, i will train on wednesday, i will record an advanced tuck hold.