ROBERT Burtchell Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Lately I've been throwing top position holds( I think thats the name, where i just stabilize at the beginning of the ring dip). Anyone have any tips to strengthen that hold or to even take steps to get into it? i can't seem to lock my arms out, keep my hips from piking, or shoulders from rounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus Rojas Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Lately I've been throwing top position holds( I think thats the name, where i just stabilize at the beginning of the ring dip). Anyone have any tips to strengthen that hold or to even take steps to get into it? i can't seem to lock my arms out, keep my hips from piking, or shoulders from rounding.Master first at the parallel bar and then try to move to rings 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 At first and because the tiny little shoulder girdle muscles are being developed, rings turned out support hold is tough for everyone. In addition to the shoulder girdle muscles, you need to strengthen all of the muscles used that are the primary movers and stabilizers of the scapula(Shoulder blades). Exrx.net Scapula and Clavicle Articulations (Scapular Depression, retraction, protraction, and elevation) Exrx.net Shoulder articulations (External and internal rotation) For rings turned out support hold specifically, get up into the position and gradually increase the amount of time you spend holding the position. If five seconds is as long as you can hold the position at a time, then strive to hold the position 12 times at five second intervals. It would, however be easier to go back to parallel bar support hold while you strengthen the needed muscles. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBERT Burtchell Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Thank you both for the tip. I guess I'll have to find a place with parallel bars and start from there. Currently All I have access to now are my rings and parallettes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 The backs of two chairs will work as a substitute as parallel bars. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Köhntopp Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 as i used rings first time i couldn't hold my self up for more than 3 sec, but in the same session i could hold it for like 10-15secs, i really noticed how my body needs to learn whats happening, after that it was just a strength thing.but i also noticed some of my friends couldn't even do it after some sessions, but i dont have an reason for that. maybe it has something to do with the nerves? i would like to hear about that but i would recommend that grease the groove should work quite well for this exercise, its not that you dont have the power for it, i think you need to learn the movement just Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Kowalski Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 as i used rings first time i couldn't hold my self up for more than 3 sec, but in the same session i could hold it for like 10-15secs, i really noticed how my body needs to learn whats happening, after that it was just a strength thing.but i also noticed some of my friends couldn't even do it after some sessions, but i dont have an reason for that. maybe it has something to do with the nerves? i would like to hear about that but i would recommend that grease the groove should work quite well for this exercise, its not that you dont have the power for it, i think you need to learn the movement just I'm no expert but here's my understanding of it. You had the required strength to hold it from the beginning, but the stabilizer muscles didn't have the muscle control to keep everything together (stop you from shaking). Once your CNS figured out the timing for firing the specific muscles you were able to hold it, with no real strength gains (strength gains begin once CNS gains have stopped). The difference between you and your friends is that they didn't have the underlying strength to do the move so the CNS could only do so much. This, I believe, is one of the reasons coach stresses doing everything in order. By the time you get to cross you should have the underlying strength (in both the muscles and tendons) and only require the CNS to learn how to use the strength - and then obviously you can build strength by holding the cross for longer and lifting yourself back out of it (forgive me, I don't know the technical term for that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Köhntopp Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I'm no expert but here's my understanding of it. You had the required strength to hold it from the beginning, but the stabilizer muscles didn't have the muscle control to keep everything together (stop you from shaking). Once your CNS figured out the timing for firing the specific muscles you were able to hold it, with no real strength gains (strength gains begin once CNS gains have stopped). The difference between you and your friends is that they didn't have the underlying strength to do the move so the CNS could only do so much. This, I believe, is one of the reasons coach stresses doing everything in order. By the time you get to cross you should have the underlying strength (in both the muscles and tendons) and only require the CNS to learn how to use the strength - and then obviously you can build strength by holding the cross for longer and lifting yourself back out of it (forgive me, I don't know the technical term for that).The first part of your text is what i said?! Yeah but holding your self up isn't really a strenght thing, for seconds just i think.My friends have done sports too before, like i did...so i used this example just because "same" starting position(nearly) .Though i just say that i believe the cns factor was the limiting thing, my adapted very fast, their not so fast. Thats what i wanted to say with my text, but because i'm no expert on this too i just was wondering if this is really the answer, the nerve-cns-stuff you know? I just think so because in school sports there were always the guys who could do everything very good after 1,2,3 tries like me and the others who really needed to train the movement per se, i dont know why there have been such a difference, maybe also genetics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Kowalski Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 The first part of your text is what i said?! Yeah but holding your self up isn't really a strenght thing, for seconds just i think.My friends have done sports too before, like i did...so i used this example just because "same" starting position(nearly) .Though i just say that i believe the cns factor was the limiting thing, my adapted very fast, their not so fast. Thats what i wanted to say with my text, but because i'm no expert on this too i just was wondering if this is really the answer, the nerve-cns-stuff you know? I just think so because in school sports there were always the guys who could do everything very good after 1,2,3 tries like me and the others who really needed to train the movement per se, i dont know why there have been such a difference, maybe also genetics? Yeah, sorry. I thought you phrased it more as a question so I was just clarifying/answering (best I could). Didn't mean to just repeat you I understand your question now: why did you pick it up in less tries than your friends with the same level of strength? not, why did you pick it up in only a few tries. I remember someone posting about how kids tend to gain "CNS strength" a lot quicker than adults, and because of this they lack in hypertrophy whereas adults must relay more on pure muscle strength and will gain mass. As you get older the connections between your brain and the rest of body start to deteriorate. So I would imagine this would apply to genetics as well, where your body learns (makes new connections) faster than your friends. I'm the same way, and I attribute my struggle to gain muscle mass to this I sometimes meet guys nearly twice as big as me with the same strength levels (in certain moves/lifts). Other times though, they're twice as strong. Hope that at least speaks to the right question, but I doubt it answers it. It's an interesting topic and something I'm trying to learn more about as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Aldag Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 If you can't lock your elbows out, most likely you are not adequately prepared for rings training. I would recommend taking a step back and getting a super solid 1min Lsit on the p-bars (or floor) with fully locked elbows, and chest out (not hollowed in). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Douglas Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 If you can't lock your elbows out, most likely you are not adequately prepared foor rings training. I would recommend taking a step back and getting a super solid 1min Lsit on the p-bars (or floor) with fully locked elbows, and chest out (not hollowed in).This!It's pretty common for people to be strong enough to hold straight arm positions like support a while but not strong/joints prepped enough to make actual gains from them It's as if the recovery required after a session nixes the str gained from it-- if you're lucky you break even, and get nothing for your time and effort. If you are unlucky you come out a little behind, and never quite catch up-- chronic and slow developing injuries come about this way from simple beginnings.Edit;The obvious conclusion here is that when you ARE strong enough, its all profit. Hence how quickly and effectively dedicated rings/plyometric style work affects a prepared body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Köhntopp Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Yeah, sorry. I thought you phrased it more as a question so I was just clarifying/answering (best I could). Didn't mean to just repeat you I understand your question now: why did you pick it up in less tries than your friends with the same level of strength? not, why did you pick it up in only a few tries. I remember someone posting about how kids tend to gain "CNS strength" a lot quicker than adults, and because of this they lack in hypertrophy whereas adults must relay more on pure muscle strength and will gain mass. As you get older the connections between your brain and the rest of body start to deteriorate. So I would imagine this would apply to genetics as well, where your body learns (makes new connections) faster than your friends. I'm the same way, and I attribute my struggle to gain muscle mass to this I sometimes meet guys nearly twice as big as me with the same strength levels (in certain moves/lifts). Other times though, they're twice as strong. Hope that at least speaks to the right question, but I doubt it answers it. It's an interesting topic and something I'm trying to learn more about as well.Haha, no its ok, i should have clarified in a better way.Now you got my question right, yes.Of course its really interesting, also that you wrote about gaining mass in relation to cns adaption.ok, my father and his father have been some pro/semi professionell sportsmen but more in endurance sports, so i sometimes think this helps me, the genetic side i mean, maybe not, but just to believe in this gives you a push i guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBERT Burtchell Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 When working support on bars or rings, do you want nuetral/depressed shoulders or protracted and depressed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Neutral and depressed for basic support holds. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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