Need a little help here!

[jyzackoh]

Hi guys,

Greetings from Singapore =)

Anyway, I'm new to gymnastics building. I've been exposed to gymnastics a little. But this is new! I need help to start up my own workout routine.

I've read Coach Sommer's article on the front lever and planche. Haven't really tried front lever but I'm at the planche progression. My daily routine is something like this:

Frog Stand 3 x 30s (can do it for very long but i can't do tucked planches!)

L-Sit 6 x 10s

Handstand 3 x 1 minute

The sequence goes "Frog Stand, L-sit, Handstand" x3

then L-sit all the way.

My goal is to build up my shoulder and lats(not realy trained here). I have access to the public fitness corner where there is a pullup bar. So maybe i can do my front lever progressions there? Could anyone give me some pointers? I would like to gain more mass but it's quite challenging.

Another goal of mine is some crazy lats strength to do a lot of pull ups. Is it achievable with this type of training? I would like to try it out before i decide to purchase the BTGB Product. I'm a swimmer(budding coach) by the way and i hope this can be adapted for my swimmers =)

Thanks in advance,

Zack

[Blairbob]

If you want to do lots of pullups, something like the Recon Ron or Armstrong pullup system may be more up your alley. Training in gymnastics will up your pullups over time and you can setup a program to train for endurance pullup ability but most of the BtGB program is focused on strength.

With the pullup bar you can work on front and back levers besides skin the cats and pullups.

Gaining mass is simply a matter of eating more calories than you use per day. Shoot for 300-500 more per day. Depends on how much and how fast you're looking to gain in.

Have you tried the straight arm frog stand yet? Place your knees on your elbows and keep your arms straight. Or you can work planche leans. Get into a pushup position or prop your feet on something shoulder height. Now lean forward as far as you can.

[Joshua Naterman]

Blairbob has made an excellent point. I am a pretty strong guy, 6'2 and 224 lbs. A few months ago i was benching 235 for 16 reps, deadlifting 405 for 8 reps, squatting 235 for 15 reps(I never really push hard on the squats) and I could do 6-8 pullups with 90 lbs, to give you an idea of what I mean when I say strong. Nothing world record, but stronger than most guys my size. That's all with no gear, just bare hands and no belt or anything. I say this because it's impressive, and despite this high level of strength, I could not hold a pseudo-planche (planche with my feet on the ground) to save my life. I actually fell flat on my face the first 3 times I tried it, and it was very very humbling.

By starting in a push-up position and moving forward literally inch by inch, and now 3 months later... maybe a little less? Anyways, now I can hold advanced tuck planche for about 15 seconds. I am just transitioning into doing an advanced tuck planche at the top and lowering to a bent arm straddle planche, and then raising back up to an advanced planche. The planche leans and ring pushups really paved the way for me. As soon as I could hold a pseudo planche on the floor for about 10 seconds I started doing pseudo planche pushups on the rings. This is, in fact, very key in my opinion. I started with one set of two, and now three sets of 8 are not too bad. I have improved really fast, I know, and this is the prep work I did.

You are really missing out on your gains because you are also not doing appropriate back work. I go to the local park and work my back levers all the time. It's great, especially when you are just starting so no one really sees you and you can be more comfortable trying new things. You can really do this stuff anywhere there is something to grab on to, I work out on the dugout at my buddy's sister's softball games. Now I can hold a straight full lay back lever for about 6 seconds on the rings and longer on a bar, so I do that at the gym and it's awesome, it really turns heads and I just get tickled silly by that.

Start off by buying coach's book. It is very complete, and I am thrilled to death with myself for having found out about it. I tell everyone who asks me what I am doing at the gym about the book and the training, because it really does enhance overall athletic ability. I absolutely love how I feel, and I can honestly say that I did not feel that way when I was lifting weights. I still squat with weight once a week or so, and deadlift twice a month. Outside of that, I really don't do any weight work whatsoever. my deadlift has gone up, I'm doing 435 for 8 reps now.

Your swimmers are going to benefit from the front lever training the most, since all strokes pull, but having them train with progressive bodyweight exercises is really going to be ideal, because they will develop a very high level of strength for their size, as opposed to getting bigger. If they can be strong and slim, they will be smaller and move through the water better because there will be less drag. Pretty sound reasoning, I think. If they actually follow the program, after a few years they will be doing the most advanced variations for most of the exercises, which will mean they will all be able to bench twice their bodyweight, etc, and not really be much bigger than they are already. That's much better than if they train with weights, because the weights are going to cause them to grow more than they need to, and are much higher risk for shoulder injuries in particular.

Every response you get here is going to tell you to get into it, for a variety of reasons, and every day that you wait and think "Hmm, I dunno..." your athletes lose a day of training that will make them better at what they do. If they were my team, I would definitely by the book and get them on the program. I would also look up shoulder injury prevention and develop or use a pre-developed method for developing and maintaining a high level of active shoulder flexibility along with balanced development and stability. Outside of what is in the book, that would include wall presses, where you sit up against a wall with your butt, back, and head touching the wall, and raise your hands up like you're being robbed, elbows at 90 degrees like you are in the middle of lifting something over your head. You then press your elbow and wrist against the wall. This WILL be uncomfortable, and that is because the shoulders are not used to this kind of work. It will become more bearable, I actually don't get any cramping anymore. You then keep your wrists and elbows against the wall as you raise them as high as possible overhead. Slide them back down and repeat a few times. One or two sets most days is plenty. Also, general rotator cuff work is highly beneficial. This stuff only takes a few minutes and will really have a big impact on how often your athletes get injured and how quickly they recover should they sustain an injury.

This was a long reply, I hope you didn't wake up drooling on your keyboard

[Joshua Naterman]

Also, my elbows are hurting. I am not ready for the skills I am trying, so I have dropped back some. It's humbling, to say the least It is pretty amazing how hard this stuff really is.

[Getinthecar]

@slizzardman. What are planche leans?

[Blairbob]

A planche lean is simply a pushup position that leans forward as if to planche like a pseudo planche pushup. Typically we elevate the toes by situating them so they are at shoulder height with a swiss ball or off a block.

[JL]

Or you can work planche leans. Get into a pushup position or prop your feet on something shoulder height. Now lean forward as far as you can.

What is the typical rep (hold time) and set scheme people use for those?

[Blairbob]

Whatever. This is typically a very easy progression I use in tandem with the frog stand for developing the planche. As in for beginners after they can hold a regular pushup position.

Typically when I do them myself, I put my feet on the swiss ball and sort of bounce my feet with tiny bounces to simulate instability and hold for 10s. My shoulder lean is at most 45 degrees from vertical and at least 30 degrees.

[Joshua Naterman]

Whatever. This is typically a very easy progression I use in tandem with the frog stand for developing the planche. As in for beginners after they can hold a regular pushup position.

Typically when I do them myself, I put my feet on the swiss ball and sort of bounce my feet with tiny bounces to simulate instability and hold for 10s. My shoulder lean is at most 45 degrees from vertical and at least 30 degrees.

I ended up doing it for as long as i could. Once i got past the 15 second mark I started trying pushups. At first one was pretty difficult, and after a few weeks three was no problem. I stuck with 3 or 4 sets of 3, and at the end of the last set, when i felt like i probably did my last pushup, instead of trying for one more i just held the most forward lean i could until my arms gave out. it was only a few seconds, but it really helped me. I only did that once, on the last set, and only once each week.

[jyzackoh]

Hi guys thanks for all the helpful tips!

So is my workout alright?

Oh one more thing! Are you supposed to get the crazy aches all over your body?

=) =)

THanks so much!

Zack

[Joshua Naterman]

Lol, at first you will. It goes away. I do hot and cold showers, 1 minute hot, one minute cold for a few cycles at the end of my showers and I am almost never sore, ever. I learned that in navy seal training, and it saved me. I was the only guy who didn't have something hurting. Until I had some nerve damage in my shoulder, but that was unrelated. Also, stretching is really important, it also helps me stay ready for action! I do the p90x stretch two or three times a week, and I do a faster total body stretch routine on most other days, just to maintain my active and massive flexibility, and I am making steady progress.

[jyzackoh]

That's some cool information over there! Last thing i would like to ask, slizzardman. (Sorry for asking so much!)

Have you substituted weights training with BtGB? I am currently doing the HIT(High Intensity Training) Program and I do feel the lactic and all build up in my muscles. I'm just afraid i can't get that muscle growth with BtGB. Please reassure me? =)

[Blairbob]

Load is load, muscle growth is work/force + food.

[Joshua Naterman]

That's some cool information over there! Last thing i would like to ask, slizzardman. (Sorry for asking so much!)

Have you substituted weights training with BtGB? I am currently doing the HIT(High Intensity Training) Program and I do feel the lactic and all build up in my muscles. I'm just afraid i can't get that muscle growth with BtGB. Please reassure me? =)

If you approach your gymnastics training with a HIT mindset, then you will experience similar growth. It's all about how you train. If you feel like there are certain muscles that don't get worked directly, like the biceps for example, then if growth is your goal you should still do some bicep curls. I still deadlift and squat twice a month, but outside of that yes, I have stopped lifting. And all I do is one set of 8 reps with deadlift and one set of 12 reps for squats. I do a quick warmup with 5 lb dumbbells before the rings, if that counts as lifting Blairbob really hit it on the head, if you want to grow the most important thing is a clean diet with enough calories for growth! And make sure your set lengths fall within the optimal time under tension for growth, 30-50 seconds in length!