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misssunshine

How important is it that you change up your strength routine?

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misssunshine

As I am currently trying to get stronger and think read about this topic a lot, I decided to ask this question here...

How important is it that you change up your strength routine? 

When you watch gymnats train, they have a ton of different exercises they do and conditioning varies each training. Some gyms even have no conditioning routine at all.

As I am a student, work part time, have a dog and need time for my friends, it would be the best if I had a plan I could easily follow and progress with which I won't need to change up a lot.

So work on "skills" first (for me that would be straddle and pike press as well as V-Sit I could progress by just getting closer and closer to the actual skill. Once I have the skill I could work on getting the skill cleaner and doing more in a row)
And then have basic conditioning like pull-ups, push-ups, leg lifts each workout day and work towards a specific number of reps.

Would this be bad? Because this is actually all I need and I think it's a pretty good full-body workout plan as I do not need levers, hollow back presses or human flags at all!

So this is the plan (found it on the internet, it is a real strength routine of L6 gymnasts but I changed one or two exercises):

10-15 minutes warm-up
stretch 
wrist+ shoulder preperation
3 sets of V-Sits as long as possible
3 sets of 5 L-Sit to Straddle Press Handstands on p-bars (press as high as possible)
3 sets of L to V leg lifts on stall bars (goal is 3x10)
3 sets of full leg lifts on stall bars (goals is 3x20)
3 sets of pull ups (goal is 3x10)

3 sets of tuck ups on stall bars (goal is 3x20)
5 sets of push ups (goal is 3x20)
100 down (100 crunches/90 hollow body rocks/80 arch rocks/70 lemon squeezers/60sec hollow body hold/50 sec arch hold/40 hollow flatters/ 30 arch flatters/20 V-Ups/plank hold until failure)

3 sets of 50 calf raises+toe raises
3 sets of 15 lunges each leg
2 minute superman hold with some leg and arm flatters


Would it be a bad idea to just follow this schedule until I meet all the "goals" which are written in brackets and from there just continue doing this 3-4 times a week?
Maybe add some chin-up pull-overs, chin-levers, windshield wipers and pike presses every now and then, because once I have that amount of strength, those things should be easy (I hope!).
 

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Matthew Proulx

You plan on doing this all in 1 day?

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Bruce Dierl

Not being sarcastic or anything but you should probably try to find the Level 1 strength routine.

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misssunshine

You plan on doing this all in 1 day?

Yes, I actually planned doing this all in 1 day, 3 times a week, because I really need to improve! So you think it's too much?

Then thing is, as I am currently just able to do a few reps of each (5 leg lifts, 2 L to V, 3 pull-ups) the intensity is not very high!

As I get stronger, I will definitely cut down on the leg lift part a bit and just do:

10 L to V

20 full hanging leg lifts

10 windshield wipers

20 tuck ups

10 full hanging leg raises

instead of 3 sets of each! It's just for now, because if I only do 3 sets of normal leg lifts I would maybe do 12 in total, which is not very much! 

Do you really think it's too much?

I have a little bit of pushing and pulling for the arms, active compression with the leg raises and passive with the V-Sits, abs and open core with the hollow body rocks, plank etc.

And the main muscles of the leg.

I need to say that I am not starting at a total new level, I have been in a conditioning class once a week or the last year and already tries to do something at home!

I can already do 15 leg raises on a free hanging bar and 5 or 6 on stall bars! I can also do 15 good form pull ups (elbows very close to body) and 4 pull-ups! I can hold a tucked V-Sit for about 12 secs and a L-Sit for about 30!

 

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misssunshine

Not being sarcastic or anything but you should probably try to find the Level 1 strength routine.

Haha, Level 1's don't do an amount of strength I would improve with!

I know that when the girls get on team, they usually start with L4. And in this gym, the L4 to L7 thave the exact same strength routine during off season time, the only thing that varies is the number of reps they do! Because the little ones may just be able to do 3x5 pull ups, and the older ones do 3x10!

So no matter how man reps they are able to do, they just do the workout and improve over time. The "gaols" written in brackets should be achieved by L7!

So what should I change if I want to improve in L to V leg lifts, full leg lifts, pull-ups and press handstand?

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Matthew Proulx

I would ditch the hundred crunches. After doing Lsits leg raises and hollow body hold I doubt crunches will do anything but waste your time :P

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Mark Collins

You are on a website that has the perfect routine for you...Foundation and Handstand.

Why are you trying to work it out on your own?

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misssunshine

You are on a website that has the perfect routine for you...Foundation and Handstand.

Why are you trying to work it out on your own?

I am sure Foundation is great! But it focusses on a safe, basic progress to achieve 7 skills and i actually don't need a hollow back press or levers.... I just need to improve in leg lifts, pull-ups and presses as fast as possible for my scholarship!

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Connor Davies

I am sure Foundation is great! But it focusses on a safe, basic progress to achieve 7 skills and i actually don't need a hollow back press or levers.... I just need to improve in leg lifts, pull-ups and presses as fast as possible for my scholarship!

So why don't you just do leg lifts, pull ups and presses and ignore everything else?

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Alan Tseng

I am sure Foundation is great! But it focusses on a safe, basic progress to achieve 7 skills and i actually don't need a hollow back press or levers.... I just need to improve in leg lifts, pull-ups and presses as fast as possible for my scholarship!

Everything including all the exercises you listed in the routine are all included in the GB courses

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Mark Collins

I am sure Foundation is great! But it focusses on a safe, basic progress to achieve 7 skills and i actually don't need a hollow back press or levers.... I just need to improve in leg lifts, pull-ups and presses as fast as possible for my scholarship!

I would still do Foundation as there is a big carryover with all the exercises. I would also train the pull up, leg lifts and presses if you were not at those levels in F1 or Handstand. Not ideal, but if you need to do it for a scholarship then you have to break some rules. By getting foundation you also get an understanding of how to program and progress with training frequency, set and rep schemes.

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misssunshine

I would still do Foundation as there is a big carryover with all the exercises. I would also train the pull up, leg lifts and presses if you were not at those levels in F1 or Handstand. Not ideal, but if you need to do it for a scholarship then you have to break some rules. By getting foundation you also get an understanding of how to program and progress with training frequency, set and rep schemes.

Ok, thank you!!!! 

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ForzaCavaliere

If you are just a beginner, you have to train in a general manner. aka. learn the fewest amount of exercises that, when combined in a schedule, trains the most amount of muscles in your body. 

 

When you are an expert you can consider developing specialties. It's like, an artist's begins a painting of a person by drawing basic shapes (circles, triangles) and then they add depth (dimension) and then they add specific details (eyes, nose, etc). If they started by focusing on the details first, it's very difficult to create a proper looking human. You too should begin your work of art by focusing on the basics of exercise and moving on to more complex. 

 


As I am a student, work part time, have a dog and need time for my friends, it would be the best if I had a plan I could easily follow and progress with which I won't need to change up a lot.


10-15 minutes warm-up
stretch 
wrist+ shoulder preperation
3 sets of V-Sits as long as possible
3 sets of 5 L-Sit to Straddle Press Handstands on p-bars (press as high as possible)
3 sets of L to V leg lifts on stall bars (goal is 3x10)
3 sets of full leg lifts on stall bars (goals is 3x20)
3 sets of pull ups (goal is 3x10)

3 sets of tuck ups on stall bars (goal is 3x20)
5 sets of push ups (goal is 3x20)
100 down (100 crunches/90 hollow body rocks/80 arch rocks/70 lemon squeezers/60sec hollow body hold/50 sec arch hold/40 hollow flatters/ 30 arch flatters/20 V-Ups/plank hold until failure)

3 sets of 50 calf raises+toe raises
3 sets of 15 lunges each leg
2 minute superman hold with some leg and arm flatters


Would it be a bad idea to just follow this schedule until I meet all the "goals" which are written in brackets and from there just continue doing this 3-4 times a week?

 

Sorry to say this, but if you are doing a routine like that (which would take at least 2 hours) 3-4 times a week, and studying for school (which should be among your highest priorities) then you are not going to see your friends very often! 

 

Anyway, you said it yourself, it's a routine for L6 gymnasts. If you are not at the level of an L6 gymnast, how can you train at that level? 

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iamtylerleonard

Can we talk about how in this thread he said plainly that he had no interest in learning foundation and instead of helping him you guys kinda forced the idea of foundation down his throat? It's kinda sickening. 

 

Anyway, as for pullups as Duff said, https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/6096-pull-ups-stoppped-progressing/?p=59816

 

if you want a good carryover of leg lifts, do weighted leg lifts and begin to add weight, when there is no weight there will naturally be more endurance. If doing weighted leg lifts is an impossibility I have found that L sits have greatly improved my leg lift endurance. As for pushups, there are many basic strength stickies or general topics that cover planche lean pushups, chinese pushups or other pushups which will increase the difficulty of the movement, thus having carryover into the easier movement endurance wise.

 

Honestly though, if you need them, just work them more. Gradually build them up with a well and good rest in between each work day and don't mess around with things that you honestly won't need. 

 

 

 

If you are just a beginner, you have to train in a general manner. aka. learn the fewest amount of exercises that, when combined in a schedule, trains the most amount of muscles in your body. 

 

When you are an expert you can consider developing specialties. It's like, an artist's begins a painting of a person by drawing basic shapes (circles, triangles) and then they add depth (dimension) and then they add specific details (eyes, nose, etc). If they started by focusing on the details first, it's very difficult to create a proper looking human. You too should begin your work of art by focusing on the basics of exercise and moving on to more complex. 

 

Sorry to say this, but if you are doing a routine like that (which would take at least 2 hours) 3-4 times a week, and studying for school (which should be among your highest priorities) then you are not going to see your friends very often! 

 

Anyway, you said it yourself, it's a routine for L6 gymnasts. If you are not at the level of an L6 gymnast, how can you train at that level? 

as he suggested, an artist will draw the basics first and work up, but at the same time the artist will not learn to paint like Davinci when they are only trying to draw eyes. 

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Connor Davies

......As for pushups, there are many basic strength stickies or general topics that cover planche lean pushups, chinese pushups or other pushups which will increase the difficulty of the movement, thus having carryover into the easier movement endurance wise......

Oh I thought we were talking about press handstands....

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David Creekmore

Can we talk about how in this thread he said plainly that he had no interest in learning foundation and instead of helping him you guys kinda forced the idea of foundation down his throat? It's kinda sickening. 

 

I suspect if you went to a crossfit board, you'd get crossfit as the answer too.  If you go to dragon door, you'll get russian kettlebells.  It's kind of how this works with product associated forums, right?   OP might try the reddit bodyweight fitness board if he's not getting the answer he wants here.  

I'm a happy F1 customer myself.  

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Coach Sommer

Can we talk about how in this thread he said plainly that he had no interest in learning foundation and instead of helping him you guys kinda forced the idea of foundation down his throat? It's kinda sickening.

Why wouldn't Foundation be recommended when so many have been so successful with it? Why recommend second best options?

Foundation is the best program I have ever put together for adult beginners. This entire forum revolves around correct progressions and programming for maximizing results in a safe, effective manner. Simply because the OP is not yet advanced enough to appreciate this fact does not change that reality.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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Redwan Haque

Foundation or not - your current routine as it is is too much. You will likely not recover and as a result not progress. Also your routine has no means of progression - you have to progressively increase either your volume or your intensity (i.e your total workload) if you want to get stronger! You have to start at a moderate intensity and build up total volume with it per session before increasing the difficulty of your sets. Burning yourself out with max effort movements every day will have you fatigued by the end of week 2 and that will be the end of your progress.

 

3 sets of V-Sits as long as possible

3 sets of L to V leg lifts on stall bars (goal is 3x10)

3 sets of full leg lifts on stall bars (goals is 3x20)

3 sets of tuck ups on stall bars (goal is 3x20)

 

These all work the same thing! Pick one of these which counts as 'moderate' intensity for you. Say one which you can do for 5x5, but cannot do say 7x7 while maintaining strict form. The next session add a set. Etc. Build up to say 12 sets of 5 over a few weeks. When you've built up your work capacity, take a few weeks to focus on the difficulty of the exercise, instead of the volume. You can perhaps add ankle weights to make your leg lifts harder. For a couple of weeks, focus on pushing your intensity to a new level but at low reps. After focusing on pure strength for these weeks, go back and reassess what is a 'moderate' intensity for you - it will be higher now. Either a higher weight, higher rep range etc. Build up volume at this level as you did before. Repeat. Your total 'strength' work for the day (for 3-4 days a week) should not take more than an 45-60 mins at your level. Anything more is overkill. Pick an appropriate number of exercises accordingly. Spend any extra time on improving mobility, and doing handstand skill work.

 

Take a read of this to clarify: http://www.poliquingroup.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/945/How_to_Plan_Your_Workouts.aspx

 

You must also not forget to deload - every 4-5 sessions, cut the planned workload (reps x sets) to 40%. This will allow you to recover from the progressive buildup of work from the past few sessions, and continue progressing in the coming sessions. Otherwise, you will stall.

 

You can search this forum for more programming advice from people far stronger and far smarter than I am, but it will take time and it can get confusing for people new to this sort of thing.

 

The benefit of a program like Foundation is that it provides you with an assessment of your current abilities and gives you an appropriate load to work with. It also gives you an idea of how long to stay at each intensity. It also gives you an accurate reference for FORM which is probably THE most important thing to focus on if you want to make progress. Without proper form, you won't correctly load the muscles you're meant to be loading, hence they won't get stronger, hence you will stay stuck doing one movement at one level for months and months. Lastly, it also has all these basic programming principles built in.

Either way, good luck!

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misssunshine

Foundation or not - your current routine as it is is too much. You will likely not recover and as a result not progress. Also your routine has no means of progression - you have to progressively increase either your volume or your intensity (i.e your total workload) if you want to get stronger! You have to start at a moderate intensity and build up total volume with it per session before increasing the difficulty of your sets. Burning yourself out with max effort movements every day will have you fatigued by the end of week 2 and that will be the end of your progress.

 

3 sets of V-Sits as long as possible

3 sets of L to V leg lifts on stall bars (goal is 3x10)

3 sets of full leg lifts on stall bars (goals is 3x20)

3 sets of tuck ups on stall bars (goal is 3x20)

 

These all work the same thing! Pick one of these which counts as 'moderate' intensity for you. Say one which you can do for 5x5, but cannot do say 7x7 while maintaining strict form. The next session add a set. Etc. Build up to say 12 sets of 5 over a few weeks. When you've built up your work capacity, take a few weeks to focus on the difficulty of the exercise, instead of the volume. You can perhaps add ankle weights to make your leg lifts harder. For a couple of weeks, focus on pushing your intensity to a new level but at low reps. After focusing on pure strength for these weeks, go back and reassess what is a 'moderate' intensity for you - it will be higher now. Either a higher weight, higher rep range etc. Build up volume at this level as you did before. Repeat. Your total 'strength' work for the day (for 3-4 days a week) should not take more than an 45-60 mins at your level. Anything more is overkill. Pick an appropriate number of exercises accordingly. Spend any extra time on improving mobility, and doing handstand skill work.

 

Take a read of this to clarify: http://www.poliquingroup.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/945/How_to_Plan_Your_Workouts.aspx

 

You must also not forget to deload - every 4-5 sessions, cut the planned workload (reps x sets) to 40%. This will allow you to recover from the progressive buildup of work from the past few sessions, and continue progressing in the coming sessions. Otherwise, you will stall.

 

You can search this forum for more programming advice from people far stronger and far smarter than I am, but it will take time and it can get confusing for people new to this sort of thing.

 

The benefit of a program like Foundation is that it provides you with an assessment of your current abilities and gives you an appropriate load to work with. It also gives you an idea of how long to stay at each intensity. It also gives you an accurate reference for FORM which is probably THE most important thing to focus on if you want to make progress. Without proper form, you won't correctly load the muscles you're meant to be loading, hence they won't get stronger, hence you will stay stuck doing one movement at one level for months and months. Lastly, it also has all these basic programming principles built in.

Either way, good luck!

Thank ALL of you for the nice and detailed replies!!!

I will definitely go for Foundation, although it is not my goald to finish it or something, but I think F1+F2 will give me a good base.

I know, there is nothing better and it's wise to follow it, but as I said, I need to have the leg raises and pull-ups as fast as possible to meet the requirements and I think just with Foundation work it might not be possible!

So again, thank all of you and I will work hard!

 

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Kate Abernethy

Good luck! :-)

Let us know how you get on.

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Joshua Slocum

This man plainly does not want foundation

I don't understand how you got that impression. See the OP's most recent post

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