HBP/PE16 Ratio between good/bad reps?

I've found doing a set of these every morning to be quite beneficial - I'm struggling with mastery with this too to be honest - I've found treating it as a pure skill and doing them almost grease the groove aiming for 5 reps in one go each time is working quite well... I'm more consistent now but god it is so frustrating.

Some days though I can hardly balance at all... I think - my body just doesn't want to let me balance like I'm cursed or something on those days.

David Birchall said:

Some days though I can hardly balance at all... I think - my body just doesn't want to let me balance like I'm cursed or something on those days.

I know the feeling, but it doesn't frustrate me anymore. As long as the overall trend goes up, I have no problem dealing with crappy workouts.

Have had bad results in the past using GTG on elements where I couldn't do multiple reps, so I'm not going there, but I'll be interested to hear how it works out for you.

for what it's worth, I am still trying to get my freestanding handstand, so i hit the wall (no pun intended!) here for a while.  I decided to move on to PE17 and 18 so I could keep working on my strength, since balance was the limiter here.  I will return once I get better at handstands (lucky to get 5 seconds at this point in time).  I felt like I wasn't getting anywhere otherwise.  Presently working PE19.  next time I will need balance will be many months away, so hoping i will get my handstand solid and be able to succeed here eventually.

MT Nordic said:

for what it's worth, I am still trying to get my freestanding handstand, so i hit the wall (no pun intended!) here for a while. I decided to move on to PE17 and 18 so I could keep working on my strength, since balance was the limiter here. I will return once I get better at handstands (lucky to get 5 seconds at this point in time). I felt like I wasn't getting anywhere otherwise. Presently working PE19. next time I will need balance will be many months away, so hoping i will get my handstand solid and be able to succeed here eventually.

Get to work on that handstand, it opens up a new world!

Update:

Feedback is welcome - thanks. 

You lose tightness when pushing from the floor, this is inefficient, you are all over the place. Plus there is a slight kick with legs and arch to compensate for lack of strength. Good balance though and nice entry 

I would recommend just brushing the head on the ground in the future, this forces you to keep tight and not rest. Additionally I would definitely elevate the hands using parallettes or blocks to allow ROM beyond 90 degrees of elbow angle. That really starts building strength.

Yeah, there's quite a bit of flailing going on. 

Don't you think I should get the 5x5 at ground level under strict control first, then begin elevating the hands? 

Looking to the execution seems that you tend to loose the bodyline, this can be a problem of body tension or simply a lack of strength in the shoulder since the arching it is a natural compensation.

The problem is that I don't know how to gain the required strength in this element as I have been on it for 16 months, and still suck at it. Before that I spent ~12 months on the negative HeSPU.

I've tried for instance steady state, 20 reps in the shortest possible time, 15 min AMRAP, and other approaches, and always do assistance work after my Foundation sets.

Could be that I need to switch to higher rep work to gain some hypertrophy?

I'm beginning to think that I'll never master this.

Edit: John and Alex, you're right about the need to focus on bodyline. I've a habit of not focusing on it before I reach the top and enter the straight handstand. Like trying to stack boiled spaghetti. Need to rethink this. 

have you ever tried to do it on wall assisted variation?

the goal it is to assist the press up with a wall , so that the bodyline it is still preserve, then approach the free handstand as the push up it is close to the end.

5 hours ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

have you ever tried to do it on wall assisted variation?

the goal it is to assist the press up with a wall , so that the bodyline it is still preserve, then approach the free handstand as the push up it is close to the end.

It's been years since I've last tried that. I'll give it a shot, I might learn something. 

On 25/11/2016 at 10:37 AM, Alessandro Mainente said:

have you ever tried to do it on wall assisted variation?

the goal it is to assist the press up with a wall , so that the bodyline it is still preserve, then approach the free handstand as the push up it is close to the end.

This was just a brief first attempt at what Alex described above.

It's immediately following my pHS workout, so shoulders are a bit fatigued.

Would you suggest doing this instead of HBP17 for a while, or did you want to see it for diagnostic purposes?

That's a nice work. you can do that here with no problem. this means that floor version it is a technical refining problem. welcome to GST TECHNICAL WORK.

That's great news, thanks for the evaluation.

Does this mean that NOW the hard work begins?

Definitely, everytime handstand it is involved a piece of technical work it is added.

One more question:

Freestanding HeSPU is hard work for me, and I only feel completely recovered if I do them once a week. I can do a few reps on other days, but an intense HeSPU session will leave me quite tired, meaning that if I attempt a session too soon after the previous one, I get a much higher occurrence of failed reps (lack of strength, balancing problems), so that I feel like that workout was generally a failure. I don't get much soreness, however.

I think I'm going to structure my weekly approach like this:

Monday: SL, SLS

Tuesday: Animal walks, limbering, bouldering

Wednesday: MN (incl. J-curls) and Middle split stretch

Thursday: HBP (HeSPU), FL, sPL, RC + a bunch of the previous HBP elements for assistance & volume: Wall supported full-rom HSPU, Box HeSPU, Ring dips, PPP and pushups

Friday: Off

Saturday: H1, H2, Bouldering. Hi-rep HBP work, but not freestanding HeSPU.

Sunday: Movement + Kettlebell cardio

This is not optimal in the sense that I should probably be doing more Foundation elements per week, but on the other hand I'm very consistent with this schedule, and don't miss workouts.

So, to the question: For the technical work, would you prioritise doing free HeSPU twice a week, or:

Would it be better to do free HeSPU well rested once a week, with a lot of heavy-ish assistance work on the HeSPU day, and then also 8-10 rep work of previously mastered HBP elements on my H1 & H2 day to get some deltoid and tricep hypertrophy (a "pump-day"), which is reasonably easy to recover from? Then I get 5 days to recover and be ready for the next HeSPU session.

1x a week wont get you anywhere, this is a technical skill so 2x or even 3x with a bit less intensity is far better. 

On 25/11/2016 at 10:37 AM, Alessandro Mainente said:

 

Hypertrophy work for handstand should not be used for now. you should focus on basic strength at least 2 times a week.

Ok, will do. I'll try and make it a light and a heavy day and see how it goes. I'll probably do so by adding in 5-8 good HeSPU reps prior to pHS sessions.

Update: Did 21 decent reps out of 28 attempts yesterday, with a focus on tighter bodyline, which seems to help a lot. Video below are of some of the last reps, so a bit sloppier form than the first attempts (had to restart phone as it wouldn't autofocus when shooting the first sets). Better, but by no means perfect.

Nice.

Looking good. 

MIkkel for accurate evaluation the execution must be filmed to the side.

On 12/23/2015 at 9:23 AM, Douglas Wadle said:

for what it's worth, I am still trying to get my freestanding handstand, so i hit the wall (no pun intended!) here for a while.  I decided to move on to PE17 and 18 so I could keep working on my strength, since balance was the limiter here.  I will return once I get better at handstands (lucky to get 5 seconds at this point in time).  I felt like I wasn't getting anywhere otherwise.  Presently working PE19.  next time I will need balance will be many months away, so hoping i will get my handstand solid and be able to succeed here eventually.

Granted I am not at this preparatory element, yet... However for what it is worth: 

Quote

Focus Points

1) Those who are more advanced may perform these free standing, although on the wall will count for mastery.

If rephrased...

Focus Points
1) Although on the wall will count for mastery. Those who are more advanced may perform these free standing.

Also, in addition to the core strengthening workout elements, with a little bit of creative thinking someone can find ways to gradually strengthen their core as we go about our day.  When I get to it. I personally am aiming to complete this element freestanding however I'll use the wall for some support if needed.
 

Big fan of freestanding hespu and hspu personally. Mastered wall hspu and working back up through freestanding hspu alongside PPP+ (turns out those are a lot harder if you maintain full lay and require a slow lift rather than a swing or bounce ). Certainly it's fine to build the basic strength and move on to more complex elements, but in F4 you will of course be performing what are essentially extended-ROM free hespu on the floor (HBP) and will need a solid and correct handstand. Definitely advise to keep developing freestanding reps, whether as a sole focus or alongside the F3 pressing