HBP/PE16 Ratio between good/bad reps?

Just started HBP16 negative HeSPU, and I decided that I want to do them freestanding, as I've been doing that in the past, although with way to much arch.

So, I tested to check where in the progression I should start, and got five good reps out of fifteen or so attempts. I expect this to improve in the coming weeks as my balance improves, as it's been a while.

Anyway, is it a problem that I'm not able to get a good rep every time I get into the handstand?

It's not mastery if there are 10 handstand kick-up attempts interspersed with the actual work. 

So mastery equals 5x5 reps, that are all good, and no failed attempts at all?

Just want to know what to shoot for.

Ravn said:

So mastery equals 5x5 reps, that are all good, and no failed attempts at all?

Just want to know what to shoot for.

Keep in mind that you are developing work capacity. Each failed attempt to reach a handstand is essentially extra rest. 

Ha, I get annoyed about failed reps, as they waste energy, yet do not count towards the complete set. Having sPL/SE3 prior to HeSPU also makes my handstand woblier than usual.

Anyone have any experience organizing for freestanding HeSPU?

Currently, I do sPL/SE3 (tuck planche) first, then my HBP warmup which is 15 pushups, 5 xiaopengs, 10 PPP's, 5 reverse xiaopengs. Then I do the negative, freestanding HeSPU work sets.

My HBP warmup has served me well in the past, but now I'm moving into skill work territory by adding balance to strength. The sPL work, and my warmup in particular means that my shoulders are already semi-fatigued and quite pumped when I begin the handstand work, meaning that balancing becomes not impossible, but more difficult. Is that fine, or am I shooting myself in the foot doing this? An obvious solution would be to just do PPP's after the work sets.

My HBP workouts are quite inconsistent at the moment. Sometimes I nail the reps perfectly with no failed attempts, other days I'm really struggling. I assume this has to do with how recovered I am.

How did you guys arrange your free HeSPU workouts?

Why not do them against the wall to mastery, and then try converting to freestanding once you're there? Be a lot easier at that point I would guess.

MT Nordic said:

Why not do them against the wall to mastery, and then try converting to freestanding once you're there? Be a lot easier at that point I would guess.

That's certainly a possibility - I don't think this is ever going to be 'easy', though. Pretty sure I could master them against the wall in a few weeks, and I will probably do that, since it's a modest investment with a potentially big payoff. However, at some point sooner or later, the balance element will have to be implemented, and that will always be difficult, and demand a lot of failed repetitions. I wonder how many times a kid falls on average before he/she can reliably walk unaided? I'm still interested in how people that have mastered it freestanding organised for it. 

Bump

on the course notes it does say that on the wall counts for mastery, so why not accumulate a few sessions on the wall and a few test freestanding to see how you're doing?

that's what my mind is conjuring at the moment, if i were in your shoes, but i am keeping in mind that you are my senior on this one, so its upto you.

My plan is to practice the freestanding ones for five or so reps, just to keep adjusting to the whole balance thing, then end the session with increasing volume of wall negatives. I'm still wondering if it is counterproductive to do pushups and ppp as warmup.

You may also simply end up being stalled on this element (or  the next) until your HS progress catches up. 

My handstand isn't perfect but I can do 60 secs with decent alignment, and usually do 5x30 on my H1 days. But yes, it'll probably take some months before I can do multiple reps solidly.

I'll have to play around with the warmup, see where it takes me.

Ravn said:

My plan is to practice the freestanding ones for five or so reps, just to keep adjusting to the whole balance thing, then end the session with increasing volume of wall negatives. I'm still wondering if it is counterproductive to do pushups and ppp as warmup.

Personally I prefer PPP + a dip. One in each plane. Planning to add a third warmup set of HSPU variation once I move into multi plane pressing.

Aha, I like that. I still feel like I need a bit of warming up for the PPP's, instead of jumping straight into them - They are quite hard, after all. I've been very happy with the pushup + PPP warmup, since it ensures that I'm always training at a decent volume. Only thing is that the PPP pump messes with my balance. It's probably just a sign of weakness, though, so I'll keep giving it a shot.

Ravn said:

Aha, I like that. I still feel like I need a bit of warming up for the PPP's, instead of jumping straight into them - They are quite hard, after all. I've been very happy with the pushup + PPP warmup, since it ensures that I'm always training at a decent volume. Only thing is that the PPP pump messes with my balance. It's probably just a sign of weakness, though, so I'll keep giving it a shot.

I like to think of it as 'a pushup (of some sort) + A dip (of some sort)'. That way I can rotate it to get my Russian, Bulgarian and plain XR dips in based on how strong I feel on a given day.

Similar thing I've done with rope climb-- started with A row + A pullup + multiplane work sets, but now that I'm in F4 I have simplified it-- note that FL pulls go from bottom of a row to top of a pullup, Yewkis go from bottom of a pullup to top of a row, so a set of each is perfect before RC stuff

Good points, especially about fl pulls and yewkis.

Ok, being dissatisfied with my balancing performance during Negative HeSPU, I decided to cut down on the warmup.

Today I did 5 pushups, 5 Xiaopengs, 5 PPP, 5 reverse Xiaopengs as warmup (plus all the planche sets). Then I did 3x2 Negative freestanding HeSPU with very little rest and only two failed attempts. Then I did wall negative HeSPU for 3x3, and ended with 11 PPP and 10 PB dips for assistance work.

This worked much better, and balancing was a lot easier than with a heavier warmup.

Ravn said:

Anyone have any experience organizing for freestanding HeSPU?

 

Currently, I do sPL/SE3 (tuck planche) first, then my HBP warmup which is 15 pushups, 5 xiaopengs, 10 PPP's, 5 reverse xiaopengs. Then I do the negative, freestanding HeSPU work sets.

 

My HBP warmup has served me well in the past, but now I'm moving into skill work territory by adding balance to strength. The sPL work, and my warmup in particular means that my shoulders are already semi-fatigued and quite pumped when I begin the handstand work, meaning that balancing becomes not impossible, but more difficult. Is that fine, or am I shooting myself in the foot doing this? An obvious solution would be to just do PPP's after the work sets.

 

My HBP workouts are quite inconsistent at the moment. Sometimes I nail the reps perfectly with no failed attempts, other days I'm really struggling. I assume this has to do with how recovered I am.

 

How did you guys arrange your free HeSPU workouts?

Do u change the order of exercise? What about FL and RC?

Right now im also at last mini cycle of FL 6, sPL SE3, RC pe6, and HBP 16

The hi reps of FL, followed by Spl and hi rep of RC 6 has drained my energy a lot, by the time i get to hBP my handstand is already in fatigue state, or can i train the hBP on another sesion?

I do fl, SPL, HBP, RC. It works alright, I think, just have to get used to it. As I wrote above, cutting down on the specific warmup, and moving some volume to the assistance exercises seemed to help a lot.

Just wondering, would there be additional benefits by practicing the negatives with full ROM, as HSPU instead of HeSPU?

Marginal, I think, in this case. I've dabbled in negative HSPU for a couple years and can do them painfully slowly, got some shoulder growth from it but not a lot of progress. Best is to work up the numbers with lower elevation IME.

When you do these do you feel the weight/balance at the wrist?

Read on beastskills he recommends keeping the weight towards the fingers so you can alter your balance easier, but as soon as I start lowering down the weight goes to my wrists. I can only keep the weight at the fingers if I use a massive arch.

Art Vandelay said:

When you do these do you feel the weight/balance at the wrist?

 

Read on beastskills he recommends keeping the weight towards the fingers so you can alter your balance easier, but as soon as I start lowering down the weight goes to my wrists. I can only keep the weight at the fingers if I use a massive arch.

Palm for me.

Ok, so it's been almost a year on these, and I'm approaching freestanding mastery, which is sooooo cool. I can't believe how long it took me to build work capacity on these.

Anyway, I have set myself the somewhat arbitrary goal of doing 5x5 plus iM in under 8 minutes consistently, before claiming mastery. This entails slightly under 100 seconds per set of five, including the iM which is ten reps of Bent Arm Prone.

Do you think 8 minutes is reasonable?

My current best is 9 minutes, so still a bit of work, but mastery is close.