Newbie introduction and question about press handstand - impossible?

[MrAl]

Hello all together!


I am completely new to this forum. I started BodyWeightExercises about 5 months ago, but I was doing Martial Arts quite a while in my teens!

So, I heard and read a lot about F1 and H1 and I am definetely going to get them in some months. 
I am currently abroad and will be home in about half a year.

Till then, I want to kinda like "prepare my body". 

I do some basic BWE 3-4 times a week, as well as some prehab and stretching.

There is one thing I always wanted to be able to do: A solid press handstand out of a straddle L! 

I can hold the straddle L position for about 30 seconds, and I can hold an L-Sit for about 20-25secs. 
I can also press from a straddle stand into the handstand, but I can't pike up into a handstand.

As this is the skill that's most important for me, I wanted to start training for it now.

Will basic compression training (L-sits and leg lifts) help doing it without training the Press Handstand itself too often? 
What is important for the straddle L press to handstand, if you are already flexible?
What is important for the pike to handstand? The same things?

Thanks to martial arts, I am pretty flexible and have nearly all my splits. I am 5'6'' and 140lbs.

Some of my friends here tell me I won't be able to make it, because just children can do it, and if grown-ups can do it, then they are high level athletes and you need to train many years for that! 

Is that true? Won't I be able to do it? Will it take years? I actually wanted to get it in some months...

Oh and something about L-sits - you are supposed to keep your arms straight throughout the skill, am I right?

As this is such a complex skill, how about the progression of it? It's easy with pull-ups for example. If you want to get better you just train for it, then you can probably add 2 good pull-ups every month I would say. But what about L-sit? How fast does a body progress with this kind of work out? 2 secondy every month? That would be little!

Looking forward to receiving tips!

 

[Connor Davies]

Welcome to the forum!

 

There's no reason you shouldn't be able to achieve a straddle L press to handstand.  I think if you've already got a 30 second straddle L, you're missing either one of two things.

 

1. Lower back strength.

 

2. Technique.

 

H2 is all about the press to handstand, I'm pretty sure (not 100%) that straddle L press to handstand is in there.  I know it's recommended that you finish F2 before you start it, but you have a pretty good base of strength already.

 

How long can you hold a handstand for, and what is your form like?

[MrAl]

Welcome to the forum!

 

There's no reason you shouldn't be able to achieve a straddle L press to handstand.  I think if you've already got a 30 second straddle L, you're missing either one of two things.

 

1. Lower back strength.

 

2. Technique.

 

H2 is all about the press to handstand, I'm pretty sure (not 100%) that straddle L press to handstand is in there.  I know it's recommended that you finish F2 before you start it, but you have a pretty good base of strength already.

 

How long can you hold a handstand for, and what is your form like?

Thanks for your answer! Ok, I will buy H1 anyway, just to make sure to have all the basics!

I am sure my handstand form is pretty good. Open shoulders, body in a straight line, hands shoulder width apart, locked elbows etc. I can sometimes hold it for some seconds, but that's it. 

I will definitely go for some more compression work for the next months, L-Sit is something I really wanna be good at anyways!

Any exercises for lower back strength?

 

[GoldenEagle]

Body weight exercises for lower back strength: 1. "Reverse" hyper extentions, 2. Hyper extensions. I wouldn't be surprised if both of these are a part of foundation1

[Jon Douglas]

Re straddle L, hand/arm placement width can make a big difference to the amount of flexibility required. Make sure you have this at your regular handstand width if you want to use it for presses

[Cody Ward]

There's no way the limiting factor is lower back strength. Have you ever done a press? It's mainly shoulders, traps, and compression/flexibility.

Yes, arms are supposed to be straight.

Have you tried doing negatives yet? Lower down from a handstand as slow as you possibly can. That will help to build strength, but I can't really say what your problem is without a video.

[Chris Hansen]

Any exercises for lower back strength?

 

I like these.

 

Not me in the video btw

[MrAl]

I like these.

 

Not me in the video btw

Thanks! those headstand presses are super easy for me, I can do many of those! Will try them in elbow stand, though!

[MrAl]

There's no way the limiting factor is lower back strength. Have you ever done a press? It's mainly shoulders, traps, and compression/flexibility.

Yes, arms are supposed to be straight.

Have you tried doing negatives yet? Lower down from a handstand as slow as you possibly can. That will help to build strength, but I can't really say what your problem is without a video.

Pressing up is usually easier for me than lowering down. Another strange thing is, that I have never really managed to press up from a raised surface, but instead got my complete press first?!

But I will try!

[Mikael Kristiansen]

Sorry guys, but there is a lot of misinformation here. Lower back strength is by no means a limiting factor of press handstands. I have written several posts on press handstands which discuss the muscle activation and technique on this forum which you probably can find if you search for them. Press headstand, though somewhat of a prerequisite, isnt even in the same country as press handstand. Pressing into handstand has everything to do with shoulders, and standing on your head eliminates that completely.

 

If you find straddling up easier than lowering down, and you can only hold your handstand some seconds, it is very likely that your form is sub par. Post up a video. And get your handstand to the level where you can hold 30+ seconds 10 out of 10 times.

 

When in a handstand already you will more or less automatically try to keep the shoulder position as it is when lowering down. This leads you to work more correctly by keeping the elevation of your scapula, staying on top of your shoulders for as long as possible and piking well at the hips. Press handstand should be felt in the shoulders, trapezius and abs(also hip flexors for some), if you are lacking muscular effort in any of these areas, there is funky business going on with the technique.

[Connor Davies]

....Lower back strength is by no means a limiting factor of press handstands...

I was hoping you were going to chime in on this thread.  Thank you for the correction.

 

OP, listen to this guy.  I'm pretty sure he's the best hand balancer on this entire forum.

[MrAl]

Sorry guys, but there is a lot of misinformation here. Lower back strength is by no means a limiting factor of press handstands. I have written several posts on press handstands which discuss the muscle activation and technique on this forum which you probably can find if you search for them. Press headstand, though somewhat of a prerequisite, isnt even in the same country as press handstand. Pressing into handstand has everything to do with shoulders, and standing on your head eliminates that completely.

 

If you find straddling up easier than lowering down, and you can only hold your handstand some seconds, it is very likely that your form is sub par. Post up a video. And get your handstand to the level where you can hold 30+ seconds 10 out of 10 times.

 

When in a handstand already you will more or less automatically try to keep the shoulder position as it is when lowering down. This leads you to work more correctly by keeping the elevation of your scapula, staying on top of your shoulders for as long as possible and piking well at the hips. Press handstand should be felt in the shoulders, trapezius and abs(also hip flexors for some), if you are lacking muscular effort in any of these areas, there is funky business going on with the technique.

 

Sorry guys, but there is a lot of misinformation here. Lower back strength is by no means a limiting factor of press handstands. I have written several posts on press handstands which discuss the muscle activation and technique on this forum which you probably can find if you search for them. Press headstand, though somewhat of a prerequisite, isnt even in the same country as press handstand. Pressing into handstand has everything to do with shoulders, and standing on your head eliminates that completely.

 

If you find straddling up easier than lowering down, and you can only hold your handstand some seconds, it is very likely that your form is sub par. Post up a video. And get your handstand to the level where you can hold 30+ seconds 10 out of 10 times.

 

When in a handstand already you will more or less automatically try to keep the shoulder position as it is when lowering down. This leads you to work more correctly by keeping the elevation of your scapula, staying on top of your shoulders for as long as possible and piking well at the hips. Press handstand should be felt in the shoulders, trapezius and abs(also hip flexors for some), if you are lacking muscular effort in any of these areas, there is funky business going on with the technique.

Thanks for your answer!

This handstand thing is really bothering me at the moment - I just can't stay up there, although I am doing handstands since 1 year now   

May I ask you one more question?

I have developed wrist pain in my right wrist, I guess it was due to the intense "press training sessions". It gets aggrevated when I lean over when doing presses, although I am pretty mobile and when I squeeze something, like a tennis ball it hurts too.

I wanted to really rest and strengthen it for the next weeks, so I can start into F1+H1 "healthily" in May when I am back home.

What exercises can I do to still progress in presses without actually doing them? 

[Jon Douglas]

If your wrist aggravation is from leaning too far over your hands, I think we have found the problem.

Best to post a video at this point and ensure you aren't making some easy-to-fix errors

[Daniel Burnham]

If your wrist aggravation is from leaning too far over your hands, I think we have found the problem.

Best to post a video at this point and ensure you aren't making some easy-to-fix errors

It is always I good idea to fix problems and this is an instance where video would definitely be useful.

However leaning over the hands is misalignment that should not injure you provided you have prepared the wrists correctly. It is most likely you are overtraining and the tissues in the wrist can't keep up. There is an entire wrist workout in handstand one that will take care of this prep. Also in addition to that, massage will usually help a great deal depending on the specifics of the injury.

Where exactly does it hurt. In the wrist joint or further up the arm?

[MrAl]

It is always I good idea to fix problems and this is an instance where video would definitely be useful.

However leaning over the hands is misalignment that should not injure you provided you have prepared the wrists correctly. It is most likely you are overtraining and the tissues in the wrist can't keep up. There is an entire wrist workout in handstand one that will take care of this prep. Also in addition to that, massage will usually help a great deal depending on the specifics of the injury.

Where exactly does it hurt. In the wrist joint or further up the arm?

Thanks for your advice! It hurts in the wrist itself. I googled and I guess it's "dorsal wrist impingement", or the beginning of it

As soon as I get back, I will order H1+F1. Should I go for F2 and H2 also? 

I won't train on rings because I don't have access to them, I am not allowed to install them in my apartement and I just don't really want to focus on them. 

I actually want to gain some new skills I can do whenenver I want wihout equipment, like pressing handstand things, V-Sits and L-Sit pirouettes and maybe some advanced tuck or even straddle planches would be awesome!

Some more pull-ups (I am currently stuck at about 8) would be nice, as well as better rope climbs without using legs. ( I have got a pll up bar back home!)

Which course should I go for?

 

[Joshua Slocum]

Thanks for your advice! It hurts in the wrist itself. I googled and I guess it's "dorsal wrist impingement", or the beginning of it

As soon as I get back, I will order H1+F1. Should I go for F2 and H2 also? 

I won't train on rings because I don't have access to them, I am not allowed to install them in my apartement and I just don't really want to focus on them. 

I actually want to gain some new skills I can do whenenver I want wihout equipment, like pressing handstand things, V-Sits and L-Sit pirouettes and maybe some advanced tuck or even straddle planches would be awesome!

Some more pull-ups (I am currently stuck at about 8) would be nice, as well as better rope climbs without using legs. ( I have got a pll up bar back home!)

Which course should I go for?

 

F2 contains continuations of the progressions found in F1; there's no need to buy F2 until you've finished at least one set of progressions in F1. 

 

It is recommended that you complete F2 before beginning work on H2, so that's not really necessary for starting off, either. 

[MrAl]

F2 contains continuations of the progressions found in F1; there's no need to buy F2 until you've finished at least one set of progressions in F1. 

 

It is recommended that you complete F2 before beginning work on H2, so that's not really necessary for starting off, either. 

Great!!!

So glad I found this forum here. Maybe one last really nasty question (oh boy, I used to hate these guys who just keep asking, I feel really bad!)

I found this video on youtube of this amazing little boy.

This is pretty much where I want to get. As I said, some more pull-ups and rope climbs would be nice as well, but that's not very important and actually quite easy to train for.

So I will go for F1+ H1 and then F2 and H2.

How long does it usually take to get through one of them?

Is is possible to gain the amout of strength shown in the video in 1 year?

I just saw a video of a guy who progressed from a very bad tuck planche to a solide full in 10 months!

(I'm getting married in January next year and wanted to show off my skills to all my friends  haven't seen in ages!)

Thanks for your patience guys!

[Connor Davies]

I'm getting married in January next year and wanted to show off my skills to all my friends  haven't seen in ages!

Hate to break it to you but Foundation is not the best program for learning cool skills in a year.  It's the best program for learning cool skills eventually and not hurting yourself while you do it.

 

Seriously I love Foundation to bits, but it's a very humbling program.  It will take a while before you really get to start training the cool stuff.  Although people assure me, you gain the ability to do cool stuff long before it comes up in the program....

[Jon Douglas]

Other than the near- manna and maybe the Vsit (can't really tell if a swing or a hold), I don't see anything you couldn't get in a year.

Course, if you lock your elbows, you might take a little longer but go further too.