Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Mandy22

Gymnasts vs. Crossfitters - how man pull-ups can they do?

Recommended Posts

Mandy22

Hello everybody!

I was wondering how strong a women or girl gymnast competing on a quite high level (not higehst, just a little less than professional) need to be? I mean grown-up, fully developed girls/women, let's say 16+ years. 

How many pull-ups is the average female gymnast, training in let's say Level 9 or 10, able to do? 
How man Hanging Leg Raises? 
How many chin-up pullovers?

Are female Climbers or Crossfitters stronger? If so, what do you think, how many pull-ups and leg lifts are considered as "very strong" in female calisthenics?


Thanks in advance!
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DiTi

most of the gymnasts train for strength not for enduarnce. being able to do lots of pull ups doesnt mean that your strong 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joshua Slocum

All three disciplines have individuals of great strength. 

 

Women's gymnastics is a more leg-dominant sport than men's, so the emphasis of their conditioning is more on lower body in comparison to men's gymnastics. Still, they're very strong, as the demands of tumbling, vaulting and swinging on uneven bars requires significant strength. All of the high level women I've known, for example, could perform rope climbs and strict muscle ups (one could even do leverage-assisted cross pulls for reps).

 

I don't have enough experience with high level female crossfitters and climbers to tell you how they compare, however. I can tell you that, since all three are very popular sports, you'll find incredibly strong individuals in all three areas. 

 

 

Why are you asking for comparisons? Are you looking for a strength training program to follow? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

most of the gymnasts train for strength not for enduarnce. being able to do lots of pull ups doesnt mean that your strong 

This is not quite correct. Aside from vault, gymnastics routines are not just about maximal strength - they're about sustained power output. Male and female gymnasts both train endurance. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Connor Davies

Are female Climbers or Crossfitters stronger?

I'd say this depends on the kind of climber and crossfitter.

 

Climbing involves a hell of a lot of grip strength.  Things like 3 or 2 finger holds are quite common.  But climbing is mostly a leg dominated sport, funnily enough, and involves quite a lot of skill work.  You don't have to be strong to be a good climber.  In fact some very successful female climbers can only do say 2-3 pullups, but these are strict.  I mean dead hangs, no kipping.  And they can do these just as well with a small hold, or even with a 'crimp.'

 

Compare this with a crossfitter.  They regularly train pullups, with a very high volume.  However because they seek high volume with short rest intervals (for time) they allow any form of pullup, and even prioritise 'easier' variations.  So while their pullup count might be quite high, it doesn't necessarily translate to the same amount of brute strength that a climber may have.  Again, this depends on the type of crossfitter.

 

For example in climbing there's various types of strength training implements, like fingerboards or campus boards.  Climbers that put in a lot of time on these will have higher strength levels, but they mostly use these thing to train for endurance.  And this is a sport specific kind of endurance, not the general work capacity of crossfit.

 

So it really depends on what you're training for.  You ask about pullups and leg lifts, but what are you using these for?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GoldenEagle

You know, "Strength" is also considered to be the unwavering will to continue to press on despite negative input coming from many directions.

 

As long as a given athlete is determined to continue to pursue a goal he or she has a level of strength.

 

As far as muscular endurance goes:

 

Rock Climbers:

Most experienced climbers, male or female, will rely more on foot placement and finesse to reserve as much muscular endurance  to finish a route. From a climbers point of view being able to hold onto a given handhold and using your legs to propel you up is more important than the ability to pull yourself up. The only times pulling strength comes into play are: A)When one has to execute a "Dyno" to reach the next handhold. B) When you have to grab the rope your attached to and pull as much slack as needed just to "Clip on" to continue a lead climb.

 

10 pull ups is more than plenty for a climber.

 

I have done 300 foot routes and never needed to do one pull up the entire route.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Connor Davies

Being able to do lots of pull ups doesn't mean that you're strong.

There's a pretty high correlation between max reps on the pullup and body fat levels, muscle size and maximum strength all around.

 

But yes, there's definitely better things to do for max strength.  Advanced progressions, rope climbs, weighted ect...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keenan Smith

Gymnasts? Plenty because they actually use form.

"Crossfitters?" None. Because they've failed to even do one rep of... whatever the heck the swaying motion is on the pole they're doing. I view it as stripper pull ups.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Daniel Burnham

Gymnasts? Plenty because they actually use form.

"Crossfitters?" None. Because they've failed to even do one rep of... whatever the heck the swaying motion is on the pole they're doing. I view it as stripper pull ups.

I admit I have been known on occasion to bash cross fitters. But there are plenty of gyms that use strict form. No reason to be that harsh. Also there are plenty of cross fitters who were ex-gymnasts. In fact the women that tend to do best were trained as gymnasts.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chris Hansen

 In fact the women that tend to do best were trained as gymnasts.

Some people might call that a clue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keenan Smith

I admit I have been known on occasion to bash cross fitters. But there are plenty of gyms that use strict form. No reason to be that harsh. Also there are plenty of cross fitters who were ex-gymnasts. In fact the women that tend to do best were trained as gymnasts.

 

 

Some people might call that a clue.

And then there's folks who see these women DOING what what you are describing... and begin copying them because they THINK it is a skill easily obtained within a matter of minutes... when that is ACTUALLY an advanced plyometric movement as you we all well know thanks to Coach's extremely insightful view of separating what you need to work on & the bs.

UNTIL you have solid form done and actually understand what programming is..you have NO business even performing them as you are literally wasting your time. They are better off walking or running because there is no real technical learning en devour associated with that unless you decide to compete at a high(ish) level. (OR do follow all of Coach's programs because doing "Crossfit" leads to zero or minimal progressions for the desk jockies watching the obviously previous experienced/conditioned/trained athletes...which still follow random workouts spat out from a computer algorithm daily.

I do understand there are indeed good gyms out there..but they are FAR fewer than you think who teach what you say. And to the degree of understanding what real programming is for success towards specific attributes/skills the athletes want to acquire might I add?

These people refuse to take the time to actually understand what they are doing and get extremely impulsive with "I need this skill and I need it now" as if it were a work training skill certification you can earn over the weekend or getting whatever it is they are impulsed on getting without a learning curve plus the time length involved with it.

What is worse..everyone I've ever asked over on that with what they their end goal is..or more specifically what are their short term monthly goals, yearly goals, and a possible end goal for what they want to achieve way down the road if they can even see that far...they left me with speechless blank faces as if I said some sort of sorcery that defies all logical thinking in their mind. Some have even literally ran away after I asked them something so simple.

I have a hunch them, running away, is actually running from self responsibility to take ownership of their actions by following a structured idea that causes them to think...in this case a solid training program of their own invention.

 

In general and in short sum of the vast majority of the cult part...not the actual aspect of competition,

"Crossfit" places a huge emphasis on form...and not ever need it. "Crossfit" takes complicated technical movements and gets rid of all the "uselessness" like the effectiveness of the training and safety...and replaces it with anything that makes the trainee "look cool" and "hardcore". Case in point: the kipping pull-up...(and I very loosely call it that.) "Crossfit" has revolutionized the fitness industry by teaching the correct way to do an incorrect pull-up that was never meant for newbies.

Is it a sport? Yes.

Is there a true training method to prepare someone for the Crossfit games if they wanted to? Absolutely.

Is it the way they are doing right now with a computer spitting out random workout algorithms? NO WAY.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

No disrespect to any crossfitters out there but this looks hilarious:

1318291546720.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mark Collins

You would be surprised that most Crossfitters have a very good weighted one rep max strict pull up. Just because they are using the butterfly in the competition doesn't mean they are not training with good form through the week.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jon Douglas

I definitely don't think crossfit is optimal, but not everyone thinks that this ^^ is a pullup.

The coach at my local box is a kindred spirit with her head on straight; she requires 5 dead hang pullups before she allows kips of any sort. I introduced some of the stronger guys to Yewkis, and they loved them.

What I see most often is a drive to get raw trainees doing the most productive, complicated exercises and technical lifts, but not having enough of a base to really benefit from them. Slap everyone in my local box with F1 + F2 str equivalent minimum level before doing wods, and they'd likely blossom quickly.

As it is, I can't help but see a lot of wheels being spun, and my gut says it's because they are punching above their weight class.

 

Or I could be right off base ^_^

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keenan Smith

You would be surprised that most Crossfitters have a very good weighted one rep max strict pull up. Just because they are using the butterfly in the competition doesn't mean they are not training with good form through the week.

That is backwards actually and then in both situations. They train "kip up" which really was meant for the rings as more of an advanced skill that was never meant for newbies....but at the same time train one rep max in both competition and regular exercise. Why? Because is in both situations, a computer randomly deeds what they are doing..and because of that...they may indeed progress somewhat..but they will NEVER know where they did.

One moment they are actually exercising with bands to assist correct form for pullups, then the next their doing what is going on in the GIF above your post, then do no "pull ups" for a while because again the computer decided to something completely arbitrary, and then whatever they tried to progress with on that first day with assisted pulls was basically for nothing.

Following something just like Coach's revolutionary program is exactly what these people need as a baseline of foundational strength because strength is conditioning...which is what these people are seeking but don't even realize it because when I ask them specifically what they are chasing down as obtainable goals..they give me blank speechless stares as if I were speaking quantum physics in every single language on earth all at once...but obviously I'm not. This is not hard to comprehend and it just makes perfect sense to do something with structure because everything follows a pattern of some sort. It's never capricious changes for no reason just like their computer algorithm is simulating..

Just starting here to end with F4 as a means of maintenance and then adding in some intelligent conditioning work will be fine as that can always be chased down later once you've achieved a strength level you're satisfied with.

I am looking at more specific ways for additional strength work to further the baseline of foundational strength once it's all said and done with passing the end of F4 because from there it's not only very specific to the individual but also a bit trickier for what exercise selections are allowed that won't inhibit what you worked soo hard to build up over the Foundation series. I've some ideas but until I get at least towards the beginning stages of F4...I can't really test them just yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Christian Nogueira

Depends on the gymnast and depends on the crossfitter. There's also a lot of variety in how crossfitter actually train, where in many cases they are training for crossfit but not actually following the system.

 

<thread-derail>

 

Are we going to do ninja vs pirates next ? 

 

</thread-derail>

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mark Collins

I think we need to be careful about generalising other strength and conditioning methods. There are some highly intelligent Crossfitters who have very good training methods and are there are plenty of excellent Coaches. There are some people who have no idea as well. The same can be said for gymnastics. I am sure Coach knows many gymnasts and other coaches that have no idea and are dangerous in what do and teach.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Connor Davies

I think maybe we need to stop talking about crossfit all the time.  It's getting ridiculous.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keenan Smith

Depends on the gymnast and depends on the crossfitter. There's also a lot of variety in how crossfitter actually train, where in many cases they are training for crossfit but not actually following the system.

 

<thread-derail>

 

Are we going to do ninja vs pirates next ? 

 

</thread-derail>

I think we need to be careful about generalising other strength and conditioning methods. There are some highly intelligent Crossfitters who have very good training methods and are there are plenty of excellent Coaches. There are some people who have no idea as well. The same can be said for gymnastics. I am sure Coach knows many gymnasts and other coaches that have no idea and are dangerous in what do and teach.

I've already said that there are indeed some very intelligent coaches out there who actually use training methods that get results for the real competition part. No arguments there. However the same thing can be said of bodybuilding coaches, track coaches, or whatever coach for whichever sport you want to name. Fill in the blank. It does not matter and is not the point at all. It's the accountability to be held with each and every person that you come across who chooses to do this in particular as it is a very skewed and far too relaxed in intelligent program design for exercise and then at least expect to give some sort of logical answer to having a game plan for competing.

(^^I've already discussed this with one of my first posts on this thread if you need to re look that over.)

 

You must really, really, hope that they are not going to say they looked it up on the ongoing random workout algorithm from their website because that just tells you they're either too lazy to pick up a strength training book to begin experimenting and learning how training works...or...hire a really good coach that is local...or at least surround themselves with people who are on par with those really good coaches that live, breathe, and move solid strength training methods. They definitely not hard to find so it's not an excuse to squirm out of.

There indeed needs to be more finger pointing/whistle blowing and accountability held for this in particular as people not getting results they want as they never truly discussed such matters personally with a great coach directly and basically having these bad coaches either lie to their faces while taking their money for a way of "training"  (<--even though it's actually called random exercise), that does not work clearly for the vast majority of the people who do try as newbies..but get manipulated and have their hard earned money swiped without notice due to these bad coaches having NO idea what they are doing in the first place.

It should be the top priority of every damn good coach to be able to educate very clearly and vividly on what the person is to be doing beforehand (just like Coach has with all his products) and not expect someone to pay up front without at least reading/watching quality no fluff into what they are preparing to do for physical betterment. There has to be no pie in the sky promises nor lay of ease towards pushing someone hard to obtain reasonable goals that they thought of on their own. It's good accountability and real integrity to not lie that matters most here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Briac Roquet

So... Can a ninja do more pullups than a pirate?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Connor Davies

So... Can a ninja do more pullups than a pirate?

Of course not.  Pirates have to climb all the rigging for the sails....

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kate Abernethy

...and pirates have kippers for breakfast  :D

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Briac Roquet

So ninjas definitely have stricter form.  :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mark Collins

I think maybe we need to stop talking about crossfit all the time.  It's getting ridiculous.

Good idea. We all know how awesome GST is and it is much better to focus on that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Blairbob

 When you say L9 or L10, there are a lot of L9/10s that might only be scoring 30-34 vs 34-38. Big difference.

 

 I would expect every L9/10 to be able to climb up a 15-20' rope in L. Maybe 2-3x. This is much different if they are young pixies or teen girls.

 

 Ideally a minimum of 15-20 strict. The WAG national team warmup by the Karolyis was something like 20 in the warmup for a few sets if I recall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jon Douglas

Even better, use crossfit open or bring a friend days to test and reassure yourself that your hard work is stacking up progress even when you can't see it :)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×

Important Information

Please review our Privacy Policy at Privacy Policy before using the forums.